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Howard_Roark
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Yes…what does that add to the discussion?
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Fisher
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I do believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
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Fisher
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I do believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God
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Fisher
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There is no debate !
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
God said it that settles it
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thistle
Guest
Obviously you are simply in the forums as a Catholic baiter with no intention of discussion.There is no debate !
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
God said it that settles it
Its interesting you won’t say in your profile which Christian denomination you belong to!! Normally different non-Catholic Christians will still discuss matters with us even though they may disagree. Does that mean you belong to some strange cult?
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Howard_Roark
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I have $5 on strange cult.
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Jefferson7
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Can anyone other than the Father know who will go to heaven. We can guess and pray and have faith that a person will go to heaven but ultimately unless we are the Father then how will we know.
God bless
God bless
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Howard_Roark
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Oh, I don’t know…this is the TRADITIONAL CATHOLICISM FORUM…maybe we could…oh, I don’t know…look to the traditions of the Catholic Church for some info?
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Pax_et_Caritas
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That’s great to hear, and if true, you are the first Protestant I have ever met who beleives all of the Bible, rather than just a few select verses that they use to nullify the ones they don’t like.
But let’s be sure you really believe ALL of the New Testament. I haven’t met a Protestant yet who believes 2 Thess 2:14 (15), which instructs us to hold fast to oral Traditionas. All of the Protestant I have ever met explicitly reject that verse in favor of the heresy of “The Bible alone”. Here’s the verse I was referring to:
2 Thess 2:14(15): “Therefore brethren, stand fast and hold to the traditions which you have received, whether by word of mouth, or by epistle”.
I just want to confirm that you also believe that verse.
I’m looking forward to you reply, and sincerely hope you will be the first Protestant I have every met who believes ALL of the Bible, including 2 Thess 2:14.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Bottom line is that those who go to heaven will be those who die in the state of sanctifying grace. i.e., not in the state of mortal sin. Repentance can come at the time of death for God’s mercy is infinite and he forgives as often as a person is truly sorry. Remember, "Forgive not 7 x 7 but 70 x 7. ’ What he did in Jewish numerology is take the perfect number of 7 and multiplied it by a factor of 10 signifying an infinite number of times. God desires mercy, not justice. Mercy is for the living. Justice is for the dead.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Fisher
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First I am not a protestant and second of corse I believe that verse.
Thats not to say I believe your traditions if it does not line up with faith in Jesus Christ alone and His finished work read the whole chapter, I did not see anything that said follow man made traditions. Its talking about the son of perdition and do not be decived Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God.
002:001 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
002:002 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
002:003 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
002:004 **Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 002:005 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
002:006 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
002:007 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
002:008 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
002:009 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, **
002:010 **And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 002:011 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
002:012 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. **002:013 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
002:014 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
002:015 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
002:016 Now our **Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
002:017 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work. **
His letter was teling them to standfast in the Lord Jesus what they were taught and heard and read not in man made tradition of a religion. Jesus Did not die on the cross so you could have a religion look at Mat7:21 ,23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You can know all about someone and they never know you!
Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Jhn 10:27 **My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: **
Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
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Deacon_Ed_B
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Fisher - quick question. Do you believe in Salvation by faith alone, or do you believe works has anything to do with it?
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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eelpis
Guest
Those who have no unrepented mortal sin on their conscience will go to heaven.
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louey
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Howard Roark, you are mistaken when you say that, “As to heretics, schismatics, and non-Catholics, we’re not sure at all how it could happen, beause God has not revealed to us how it can happen.” The Church has infallibly defined what you say has not been revealed in the Bull Cantate Domino, Council of Florence 1441, Pope Eugene IV, “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”
To believe otherwise is contradicting the OFFICIAL teaching of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. It is heresy to say anyone is saved outside the Catholic Church. Athanasian Creed: " Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; 2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly" Dogma of the Catholic Church.
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CaliMike
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Hi guys,
My first post here on this forum. My belief is 1) I’m trying to “cover all my bases”, when it comes to salvation. I am 55, baptized Catholic as infant, went to Catholic schhol for 1st 8 yrs of school, then the “life” corrupted me for about 25 yrs or so. I got away from the church (only because I was “too busy” living and working at things that I thought were important, things of this world. But in all my time away from the “church” I still new God loved me like the “Prodigal son” in Luke. He let me try to get farther away from him, even though I still believed I was chosen to go to heaven, even tho, Lord knows I dont deserve to. I dont think anyone deserves to. We all “deserve” hell. But thanks to God he has saved me, I hope. tho I dont deserve it. I / we sin everyday, to some degree or another, even if it’s little like complaining, gossiping , judging others etc. So I’m sure when I die, I will have sin in my soul. And only the pure will get into heaven, or righteous. Therefore, I will undoubtedly spend quite abit of time in purgatory, for purification before entering heaven. You reap what you sow, I guess. For every bad, there is a price to pay.
I live , or try to live like my favorite part of the bible, the Beatitudes. Be meek, humble, etc. . And the biggest thing I try as much as possible is 1) whoever acknowledges Me in public, I will acknowlege to My Father in heaven, and whoever denies Me, I will deny before My Father. and 2) you must become “like a child” to enter heaven-innocent and pure (before the world corrupts) and 3) whoever helps the poor, the needy, the prisoners etc on earth, he will be rewarded in heaven. Basically just “LIVE LIKE JESUS” as much as humanly possible.
As far as debating what religions will get into heaven??? I believe it doesn’t matter, Catholic, protestant, etc. as long as we try to live like above. Remember God is a just and fair God. And we are all talking about the same God (the God of David), not the fire god, or pagan gods etc.
sorry for rambling, but that’s the way I roll.
Mike
My first post here on this forum. My belief is 1) I’m trying to “cover all my bases”, when it comes to salvation. I am 55, baptized Catholic as infant, went to Catholic schhol for 1st 8 yrs of school, then the “life” corrupted me for about 25 yrs or so. I got away from the church (only because I was “too busy” living and working at things that I thought were important, things of this world. But in all my time away from the “church” I still new God loved me like the “Prodigal son” in Luke. He let me try to get farther away from him, even though I still believed I was chosen to go to heaven, even tho, Lord knows I dont deserve to. I dont think anyone deserves to. We all “deserve” hell. But thanks to God he has saved me, I hope. tho I dont deserve it. I / we sin everyday, to some degree or another, even if it’s little like complaining, gossiping , judging others etc. So I’m sure when I die, I will have sin in my soul. And only the pure will get into heaven, or righteous. Therefore, I will undoubtedly spend quite abit of time in purgatory, for purification before entering heaven. You reap what you sow, I guess. For every bad, there is a price to pay.
I live , or try to live like my favorite part of the bible, the Beatitudes. Be meek, humble, etc. . And the biggest thing I try as much as possible is 1) whoever acknowledges Me in public, I will acknowlege to My Father in heaven, and whoever denies Me, I will deny before My Father. and 2) you must become “like a child” to enter heaven-innocent and pure (before the world corrupts) and 3) whoever helps the poor, the needy, the prisoners etc on earth, he will be rewarded in heaven. Basically just “LIVE LIKE JESUS” as much as humanly possible.
As far as debating what religions will get into heaven??? I believe it doesn’t matter, Catholic, protestant, etc. as long as we try to live like above. Remember God is a just and fair God. And we are all talking about the same God (the God of David), not the fire god, or pagan gods etc.
sorry for rambling, but that’s the way I roll.
Mike
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louey
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Mike, it DOES matter what one believes! There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. If a man dies a protestant, a jew, a pagan, he will go to hell. There is no santifying grace nor remission of sin outside the Catholic Church. Religious indifference renders the Church of Christ, the Catholic Faith, meaningless. Again, please read the Athanasian Creed. And here are the 3 DOGMATIC pronouncements of the Church.
Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215: “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.”
Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam Sanctum, 1302: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) outside which there is no salvation nor remission of sin…”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Bull Cantate Domino, 1441: “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
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Jimdandy
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CaliMike
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Louey,
Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll stick to my belief… By your response it sounds like if you’re not Catholic, for example, a poor child of 2 yrs old in Africa who dies because his/her mother infected him with aids when born, because he/she is not Catholic, then that poor child will not be in heaven??? WOW!!
remember, God made ALL OF US to be with him in heaven. But a person who has a choice, and rejects God, then they will be thrust into hell. not a person who had no choice or a chance… Be careful what you say Louey.
Mike
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louey
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What I say??? The word’s are not mine, they are the dogmatic declarations of the Catholic Church. It matter’s not what is your opinion or mine what we believe; the Church has declared infallibly what we MUST believe in order to have a hope for salvation. A child of 2 years old who is infected with aids and dies without the water of baptism goes to hell. Also a dogma of the Church. Pope Gregory X, Second Council of Lyons, 1274: “The souls of those who die in mortal sin or only with original sin go down into hell, but there they receive unequal [disparibus] punishments.”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439: “The souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of unequal [disparibus] kinds." Sad, but that child will not be in heaven. He will be in hell for all eternity. I am Roman Catholic.
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louey
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