who will go to heaven

[Jimdandy]

louey, the part you are missing, the part that is frequently misunderstood is that it is through the Body of Jesus, of which Catholics(and our Eastern/Orthodox brethren) are that all MAY go to heaven.

(I do not care to argue percentages or particulars of which congregations are in total or partial union with Rome because it serves no purpose in this forum-if I were a Bishop it would be a different story!)

ie: through our prayers, petitions and indulgences gained and given to those who are not baptized, do not believe in Christ, or have not fully understood what Jesus taught. And every Mass has this purpose-that with our prayers, offered along with Christ’s sacrifice: that many might come to be united with God and be granted eternal life.

Live a Christ-like life.

Try to gain a plenary indulgence and several partial indulgences daily for the conversion of sinners and unbelievers.

 

[louey]

louey, the part you are missing, the part that is frequently misunderstood is that it is through the Body of Jesus, of which Catholics(and our Eastern/Orthodox brethren) are that all MAY go to heaven.

(I do not care to argue percentages or particulars of which congregations are in total or partial union with Rome because it serves no purpose in this forum-if I were a Bishop it would be a different story!)

ie: through our prayers, petitions and indulgences gained and given to those who are not baptized, do not believe in Christ, or have not fully understood what Jesus taught. And every Mass has this purpose-that with our prayers, offered along with Christ’s sacrifice: that many might come to be united with God and be granted eternal life.

Live a Christ-like life.

Try to gain a plenary indulgence and several partial indulgences daily for the conversion of sinners and unbelievers.

Jimdandy, the part you don’t seem to understand, or are missing is that you do not believe what the Catholic Church has infallibly defined. There is NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Yes, the Church prays for the conversion of all outside the Church, in hope they come to the pillar of truth; the Catholic Church before they die.

 

[thistle]

What I say??? The word’s are not mine, they are the dogmatic declarations of the Catholic Church. It matter’s not what is your opinion or mine what we believe; the Church has declared infallibly what we MUST believe in order to have a hope for salvation. ** A child of 2 years old who is infected with aids and dies without the water of baptism goes to hell. Also a dogma of the Church.** Pope Gregory X, Second Council of Lyons, 1274: “The souls of those who die in mortal sin or only with original sin go down into hell, but there they receive unequal [disparibus] punishments.”
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439: “The souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of unequal [disparibus] kinds." Sad, but that child will not be in heaven. He will be in hell for all eternity. I am Roman Catholic.

You are wrong. This is the Church teaching:

CCC 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

 

[louey]

You are wrong. This is the Church teaching:

CCC 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

Thistle, to say I am wrong is to say the Church is wrong. It is the Church who has made these infallible prouncements, not I; it is Her word’s not mine. You do understand that a dogma is infallible; it must be believed by all Catholic’s without a doubt. You cite the catechism of the Conciliar church to say this is what the Catholic Church teaches. To say there is hope for infants who die without the water of baptism is HERESY. The Truth does not contradict itself. Either one believes what the Catholic Church has infallibly defined, or one believes the false church, posing as the Catholic Church, in opposition to the Truth. I am speaking of the Conciliar church, being the false church.

 

[jmeyer3131]

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

True, that is Church teachings. However, you need to understand what they mean by “outside the Church.”

Here’s a couple of good links:

staycatholic.com/salvation_outside_the_church.htm

staycatholic.com/salvation_outside_the_church.htm

 

[louey]

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

True, that is Church teachings. However, you need to understand what they mean by “outside the Church.”

Here’s a couple of good links:

staycatholic.com/salvation_outside_the_church.htm

staycatholic.com/salvation_outside_the_church.htm

Jmeyer, what part is not clear in, THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? The Bull Cantate Domino is quite clear, precise in it’s infallible prouncement as well as the other 2 dogmatic declarations. The Church has defined precisely what it means by those who are outside the Catholic Church…pagans, Jew, heretic’s, schismatic’s.

 

[jmeyer3131]

Jmeyer, what part is not clear in, THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? The Bull Cantate Domino is quite clear, precise in it’s infallible prouncement as well as the other 2 dogmatic declarations. The Church has defined precisely what it means by those who are outside the Catholic Church…pagans, Jew, heretic’s, schismatic’s.

There’s a lot more to it than that. Try reading the articles I linked to; they give sources. Try reading the Lumen Gentium and the catechism. Understand that the church does develop doctrine as time goes on. That is not to say it later disagrees with the Bull Cantate Domino, but rather that it develops and clarifies the doctine.

those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only PAGANS, BUT ALSO JEWS, HERETIC’S AND SCHISMATIC’S,

This is if they continue to exist outside of the church; however, they can be part of the church, if incompletely, in a number of ways other than converting. The Catholic church is the instrument of salvation in any case.

Much of the confusion of those outside of the Catholic church with our teachings is when they think doctrine that has been developed and clarified has actually changed.

Try actually reading the links I sent. They’ll give you a start to do more research so you can confirm this yourself.

But don’t bother to yell at me again. I’m unsubscribing to this thread. You appear to be somebody who wants to sow discord, not truth.

 

[Our_Refuge]

Jmeyer, what part is not clear in, THERE IS NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? The Bull Cantate Domino is quite clear, precise in it’s infallible prouncement as well as the other 2 dogmatic declarations. The Church has defined precisely what it means by those who are outside the Catholic Church…pagans, Jew, heretic’s, schismatic’s.

Louey, do you not accept the dogmatic teaching of Pope Pius IX ?

Quanto Conficiamur Moerore
"We all know that those who suffer from **invincible ignorance **with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law which have been written by God in the hearts of all men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can, by the power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life. For God, who knows completely the minds and souls, the thoughts and habits of all men, will not permit, in accord with His infinite goodness and mercy, anyone who is **not guilty of a voluntary fault **to suffer eternal punishment "

Pius IX Singulari Quidam
"It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that **outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, **that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. On the other hand, **it must likewise be held as certain **that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord "

 

[rinnie]

Jesus came into this world to save sinners. No one will know what will happen until they are judged on the day the Lord chooses. All we can do is try to live the ten commandments the best we can, confess our sins, and do our best to love one another. Only God knows who will enter the gates. Its impossible for anyone to answer for God.

 

[louey]

There’s a lot more to it than that. Try reading the articles I linked to; they give sources. Try reading the Lumen Gentium and the catechism. Understand that the church does develop doctrine as time goes on. That is not to say it later disagrees with the Bull Cantate Domino, but rather that it develops and clarifies the doctine.

This is if they continue to exist outside of the church; however, they can be part of the church, if incompletely, in a number of ways other than converting. The Catholic church is the instrument of salvation in any case.

Much of the confusion of those outside of the Catholic church with our teachings is when they think doctrine that has been developed and clarified has actually changed.

Try actually reading the links I sent. They’ll give you a start to do more research so you can confirm this yourself.

But don’t bother to yell at me again. I’m unsubscribing to this thread. You appear to be somebody who wants to sow discord, not truth.

Jmeyer, first I am not yelling at you when I capitalize,it is for emphasis. Second I have read those links as well as LG. It is sad that you run away from the truth, “I’m unscribing to this thread.” If you truly believed what you present as truth, is it not worth standing up for? Dogma’s do not evolve or developed over time. Dogma’s are universal for all time, and they are to be understood as written. That is what the Church teaches.

Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 1832: “13. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion… Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism” may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,” and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him.[1] Therefore "without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.”

Pope Pius IX, Qui Pluribus, 1846: “15. Also perverse is the shocking theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile action. They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between justice and iniquity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Christ and Belial. 20. …With the same great strength of mind, foster in all men their unity with the Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.”

Pope Pius IX, Syllabus of Errors: “Condemned Proposition: 16. In the worship of any religion whatever, men can find the way to eternal salvation, and can attain eternal salvation.” (D1716)

I hope you too, will come to believe the Truth.

 

[louey]

Louey, do you not accept the dogmatic teaching of Pope Pius IX ?

Quanto Conficiamur Moerore
"We all know that those who suffer from **invincible ignorance **with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law which have been written by God in the hearts of all men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can, by the power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life. For God, who knows completely the minds and souls, the thoughts and habits of all men, will not permit, in accord with His infinite goodness and mercy, anyone who is **not guilty of a voluntary fault **to suffer eternal punishment "

Pius IX Singulari Quidam
"It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that **outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, **that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. On the other hand, **it must likewise be held as certain **that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord "

Our Refuge, Yes I do believe what Pope Pius IX has written in those two encyclical’s. Now what is the point you are trying to make?

 

[Our_Refuge]

Our Refuge, Yes I do believe what Pope Pius IX has written in those two encyclical’s. Now what is the point you are trying to make?

The point is that you never include **invincible ingnorance **in any of your posts.

louey quote
Mike, it DOES matter what one believes! There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.** If a man dies a protestant, a jew, a pagan, he will go to hell.** There is no santifying grace nor remission of sin outside the Catholic Church

You also stated that it is a DOGMA if a two year old were to die from aids without baptism he would go to hell. That is not a DOGMA.

 

[louey]

Our Refuge, invincible ignorance does not save a man. Pope Pius IX never once said in his encyclicals (which BTW are fallible, not dogmatic) that a man is saved by being ignorant of the Truth? He states that a mans’ invincible ignorance of the Truth will not condemn him for the sin of infidelity, which is the sin of hearing the Word of God, and rejecting the Truth,(not believing) but he never says it will save him either. On the contrary Pope Pius IX states most
emphatically that no one is saved outside the Catholic Church.
Singulari Quadem, 1854: For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God. The guilt of infidelity. One must die in sanctifying grace in order to be saved. Here is what St. Thomas Aquinas states: St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa II-II, Q.10 art. 1, I answer that: “Infidels of this sort are not damned for the sin of infidelity, but are indeed damned for other sins which cannot be remitted without faith. Wherefore, the Lord says: ‘If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin’ (John 15:22); that is, as St. Augustine explains it, ‘they would not have the sin of not believing in Christ.’”

Pope Pius IX further teaches that a man who is of good will, is sincerely seeking the truth will not be left unaided.
Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadem, 1854: But, just as the way of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ; and let us be devoted to the common salvation of men in proportion to our strength, ‘for the hand of the Lord is not shortened’ (Isa. 9:1) and the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light. Truths of this sort should be deeply fixed in the minds of the faithful.

Alsoope Pius IX, Singulari Quadem, 1854: Nothing more excellent has been given by the providence of God to man than the authority of divine faith; that this is for us, as it were, a torch in the darkness, a guide which we follow to life; that this is absolutely necessary for salvation; for, ‘without faith… it is impossible to please God’ [Heb. 11:6] and ‘he that believeth not, shall be condemned’ [Mk. 16:1]

Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadem, 1854: Not without sorrow we have learned that another error, no less destructive, has taken possession of some parts of the Catholic world, and had taken up its abode in the souls of many Catholics who think that one should have good hope of eternal salvation of all those who have never lived in the true Church of Christ. Therefore they are wont to ask very often what will be the lot and condition after death of those who have not submitted in any way to the Catholic faith, and by bringing forward most vain reasons, they make a response favorable to their false opinion. …the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light. Truths of this sort should be deeply fixed in the minds of the faithful, lest they be corrupted by false doctrines, whose object is to foster an indifference toward religion, which we see spreading widely and growing strong for the destruction of souls… let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is “one God, one faith, one baptism” (Eph. 4:5); it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry.

And it is dogma that all who die with the guilt of original sin descend immediatley to hell. It was infallibly defined A.D. 418
at the Council of Carthage.

Pope St. Zosimus, Council of Carthage XVI, Original Sin and Grace, 418: “Canon 3. It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: ‘In my Father’s house there are many mansions’ [John 14:2]: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere else where blessed [beati] infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God’ (Jn. 3:5), what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run to the left.” (Denzinger)
The dogma that those who die with the sole guilt of original sin are punished and the dogma that they are punished less than those who die with the guilt of mortal sin were infallibly defined in A.D. 1274 at the Second Council of Lyons and again in A.D. 1439 at the Council of Florence:

Pope Gregory X, Second Council of Lyons, 1274: “The souls of those who die in mortal sin or only with original sin go down into hell, but there they receive unequal [disparibus] punishments.”[6]

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439: “The souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of unequal [disparibus] kinds.”

It is the enemies of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Faith who either out and reject the dogma’s of the Catholic Church, or water them down to render them meaningless; particularily the dogma EENS. Again recite the dogmatic creed (all Catholc Creed’s are dogmatic) Athansian Creed. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

1. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlasting. I hope this is helpful to you.

 

[rinnie]

Louey, now i could be wrong about this but here is how i understand it. Now i believe there is only one true faith the RCC. But and this is a big but, What i understood the Pope to say is that if a person was taught the Catholic Faith, and then turns away from it, then they are at risk for their salvation. Now if a person was not taught the true Catholic faith, then they are not at risk the way a person who does know the faith is. Because yes the Catholic faith is the truth, but for those that dont really know it or undersand it how can they be held to it. The problem is alot of lies are told about our faith, so people turn away from it. But to say that a non-Catholic can not go to heaven is not the teaching of the RCC. The Pope said again, the way i understand it, if you were taught the faith and turn you back on your faith, Roman Catholic) then your soul is in grave danger. You may want to check on that. But the Pope did say he has repect for all religions for they all have some truth to them. But the RCC is the fullness of the faith.

 

[Our_Refuge]

=louey;3844694]Our Refuge, invincible ignorance does not save a man. Pope Pius IX never once said in his encyclicals (which BTW are fallible, not dogmatic) that a man is saved by being ignorant of the Truth? He states that a mans’ invincible ignorance of the Truth will not condemn him for the sin of infidelity, which is the sin of hearing the Word of God, and rejecting the Truth,(not believing) but he never says it will save him either. On the contrary Pope Pius IX states most
emphatically that no one is saved outside the Catholic Church.
Singulari Quadem, 1854: For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand,** it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God**

.
exactly!

louey quote
And it is dogma that all who die with the guilt of original sin descend immediatley to hell. It was infallibly defined A.D. 418
at the Council of Carthage.

You stated that if a two year old dies of aids without being baptized he will go to hell and you said that is a dogma.
Limbo is not a dogma of the Church.

 

[louey]

.
exactly!

You stated that if a two year old dies of aids without being baptized he will go to hell and you said that is a dogma.
Limbo is not a dogma of the Church.

Our Refuge, " is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God." What “stain of guilt” is Pius IX speaking of? Again, he is speaking of the sin of infidelity. Does he say that a person is saved, is in the way of salvation because he is ignorant? NO. Ignorance of the one true faith carry’s no virtue. " If our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel… should not shine unto them.” (2 Cor.4:3-4) Limbo is not a dogma; you are correct. I fail to see your point. The dogma is those who die with the sole guilt of original sin or actual sin descend immediately into hell, suffering is disparate. So an infant of 2 who dies without baptism of water goes to hell; this is dogma. Pope St. Zosimus, Council of Carthage XVI, Original Sin and Grace, 418: “Canon 3. It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: ‘In my Father’s house there are many mansions’ [John 14:2]: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere else where blessed [beati] infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God’ (Jn. 3:5), what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run to the left.” (Denzinger)
Pope Gregory X, Second Council of Lyons, 1274: “The souls of those who die in mortal sin or only with original sin go down into hell, but there they receive unequal [disparibus] punishments.”[6]

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1439: “The souls of those who depart in actual mortal sin or in original sin only, descend immediately into hell but to undergo punishments of unequal [disparibus] kinds.”

Do you understand?

 

[louey]

Louey, now i could be wrong about this but here is how i understand it. Now i believe there is only one true faith the RCC. But and this is a big but, What i understood the Pope to say is that if a person was taught the Catholic Faith, and then turns away from it, then they are at risk for their salvation. Now if a person was not taught the true Catholic faith, then they are not at risk the way a person who does know the faith is. Because yes the Catholic faith is the truth, but for those that dont really know it or undersand it how can they be held to it. The problem is alot of lies are told about our faith, so people turn away from it. But to say that a non-Catholic can not go to heaven is not the teaching of the RCC. The Pope said again, the way i understand it, if you were taught the faith and turn you back on your faith, Roman Catholic) then your soul is in grave danger. You may want to check on that. But the Pope did say he has repect for all religions for they all have some truth to them. But the RCC is the fullness of the faith.

Rinnie, it is Catholic dogma that one can not be saved outside the Catholic Church. Infallibly defined 3 times. Here are the dogmatic declarations.
Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215: “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that NO ONE IS SAVED."
Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam Sanctum, 1302: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) OUTSIDE WHICH THERE IS NO SALVATION OR REMISSION OF SIN…"

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Bull Cantate Domino, 1441: “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only PAGANS, but also JEWS, HERETICS and SCHISMATIC’S, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”

Pagans, Jew, heretic’s, schismatic’s will all go to hell unless they convert to the Catholic faith, this is dogma. Now rinnie, reason dictates a Catholic does not respect ANY false religion. The Catholic Faith is the only religion of God; all other’s are false and the author is Satan. Do you respect the work of Satan? Remember, Satan is the author of lies, he mixes truth with lies, he appears as an angel of light. To respect false religions is an abomination in the eyes of God. Please be careful to distinguish between false religions, and an individual. The Catholic Church has always prayed and desires that all come to the pillar of truth, the Catholic Church so they may have a hope for salvation. I hope this is helpful to you. Also note Capitalization in declarations is mine, for emphasis.

 

[CaliMike]

I’m getting a headache from all this “dogma” , “Pius” talk. You are trying to over-religion salvation…salvation, I believe, is achieved very simply: know and accept the God of David, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit. repent of our sins dearly, just like the act of contrition implores. Live life as Jesus like as possible. When we sin, deeply repent for having offended God. and try like hell, with his grace, not to sin anymore . (Obviously that’s impossible, but at least conciensely try). Be spiritual, NOT RELIGIUS!!! live by the commandments, beatitudes, repent, pray and help others as much as you can. Dont deny God, but rather, acknowledge Him.

God is a just and fair God, and has made ALL of us children to spend eternity with him. Unfortunately many of us get lost along the highway of life, and choose to deny God and His wonderful offerring of salvation. a 2 yr old does not make that kind of decision and therefore will be in heaven when they die. I dont care about dogma, councils etc. I care about worshipping God and praying like hell, He deems me worthy of everlasting life with him; because I definetly feel unworthy. That is my favorite recital line in Mass: “Lord I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I will be healed”. just before receiving His Body and Blood

Mike

Louey, Keep it simple…

 

[louey]

I’m getting a headache from all this “dogma” , “Pius” talk. You are trying to over-religion salvation…salvation, I believe, is achieved very simply: know and accept the God of David, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit. repent of our sins dearly, just like the act of contrition implores. Live life as Jesus like as possible. When we sin, deeply repent for having offended God. and try like hell, with his grace, not to sin anymore . (Obviously that’s impossible, but at least conciensely try). Be spiritual, NOT RELIGIUS!!! live by the commandments, beatitudes, repent, pray and help others as much as you can. Dont deny God, but rather, acknowledge Him.

God is a just and fair God, and has made ALL of us children to spend eternity with him. Unfortunately many of us get lost along the highway of life, and choose to deny God and His wonderful offerring of salvation. a 2 yr old does not make that kind of decision and therefore will be in heaven when they die. I dont care about dogma, councils etc. I care about worshipping God and praying like hell, He deems me worthy of everlasting life with him; because I definetly feel unworthy. That is my favorite recital line in Mass: “Lord I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I will be healed”. just before receiving His Body and Blood

Mike

Louey, Keep it simple…

Mike, I am shocked that you claim to be a Catholic, when you reject the what the Catholic Church teaches. To say that it is impossible to not sin is not a true. Does Jesus not say, “sin no more” does God ask us to do the impossible? Think about it Mike. If you believe an unbaptised infant can enter heaven, you are a heretic. I have shown you the dogmatic declarations and you reject the dogma that one who dies with the guilt of original sin goes to hell. You are not Catholic, and you are outside the Catholic Church and on the road to hell, if you do not abjure of your heresies before you die. Charity compels me to warn you to seek the truth with a sincere, humble heart. Also, we are not ALL children of God. We are all created by God, but we are not all children of God. We are born under the dominion of satan. “Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.” (Romans 5:12) Who are the children of God? " For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus." (Gala. 3:26) It is through the saving water’s of baptism an infant is saved, the water which was away sin, original and actual, sanctifies and reconciles us to God.

 

[rinnie]

Rinnie, it is Catholic dogma that one can not be saved outside the Catholic Church. Infallibly defined 3 times. Here are the dogmatic declarations.
Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215: “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that NO ONE IS SAVED."
Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam Sanctum, 1302: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this (Church) OUTSIDE WHICH THERE IS NO SALVATION OR REMISSION OF SIN…"

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Bull Cantate Domino, 1441: “The most Holy Roman Catholic Church firmly believes, professes, and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only PAGANS, but also JEWS, HERETICS and SCHISMATIC’S, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”

Pagans, Jew, heretic’s, schismatic’s will all go to hell unless they convert to the Catholic faith, this is dogma. Now rinnie, reason dictates a Catholic does not respect ANY false religion. The Catholic Faith is the only religion of God; all other’s are false and the author is Satan. Do you respect the work of Satan? Remember, Satan is the author of lies, he mixes truth with lies, he appears as an angel of light. To respect false religions is an abomination in the eyes of God. Please be careful to distinguish between false religions, and an individual. The Catholic Church has always prayed and desires that all come to the pillar of truth, the Catholic Church so they may have a hope for salvation. I hope this is helpful to you. Also note Capitalization in declarations is mine, for emphasis.

Yeah louie, i agree with what you are saying, but from what i understand Pope John Paul 11 said that for people who no fault of their own know the faith, cant be held accountable, Give me some time i will have to find it. I think its in the CCC im not sure.