Who would you believe?

[storm807]

Question, Please do not be offended. Im Baptist so Im not that familiar with the Catholic faith but I believe there is only one faith,Faith In God.We are all brothers and sisters.

But my question to you is,
“If believe that you had a vision and it did not agree with your Catholic teachings who would you believe,your vision or your Church’s teachings?”

Blessings!

 

[Mintaka]

You’re talking about “discernment” here. You may have heard about this as “testing the spirit”.

So the #1 question is: Does your vision contradict what God has revealed to us through the Bible, or through normal Christian teachings? Is it telling you to do something evil? Is it telling you any kind of lie?

If it does (and you can tell), you know it’s not right. The Holy Spirit doesn’t contradict the Word of the Father. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not in the habit of lying to their people, either.

The next thing you should do is tell your vision to somebody you know who is very wise and holy of life, who has more experience than you do with spiritual things. Ask them what they think. Do what they advise.

The third thing you should do is not fixate on the vision. If it told you something true from God, obey the message from God and don’t keep staring at the envelope. If it was a false vision from your own brain or from the Devil, don’t give it another thought. (And frustrate the Devil by praying more.)

 

[Tantum_ergo]

My Church’s teachings.

We know from Scripture that Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. We also know from Scripture that Christ established a church, and gave that church authority of interpretation on spiritual teachings, guided by the Holy Spirit.

Any ‘vision’ that conflicted with the teachings of my Church–which I truly believe was instituted by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit–would by definition conflict with Scripture --the word of God–and thus of course would conflict with the Living Word of God, Christ Jesus.

Since God is not divided against himself, then anything ‘against’ Him is of Satan.

Would you trust your personal ‘vision’, or would you trust the pillar and foundation of truth (The Church) and its Scripture and Tradition, established and given by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit?

It’s a lot easier for Satan to fool one person than it is for him to try to overthrow the Church Jesus built.

 

[Nita]

Question, Please do not be offended. Im Baptist so Im not that familiar with the Catholic faith but I believe there is only one faith,Faith In God.We are all brothers and sisters.

But my question to you is,
“If believe that you had a vision and it did not agree with your Catholic teachings who would you believe,your vision or your Church’s teachings?”

Blessings!

Hi Storm,

I would believe the Church’s teachings. As a matter of fact, that is one of the tests to apply to any sort of supernatural occurances. If what is said is contrary to Scripture and Church teaching, then it is not of God.

*Galatians1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed. *

It is a test that I use even on my own insights into Scripture. If my interpretation disagrees with official Church teaching, then I know which of us is mistaken - it’s me, not the Church.

Nita

 

[storm807]

You’re talking about “discernment” here. You may have heard about this as “testing the spirit”.

So the #1 question is: Does your vision contradict what God has revealed to us through the Bible, or through normal Christian teachings? Is it telling you to do something evil? Is it telling you any kind of lie?

If it does (and you can tell), you know it’s not right. The Holy Spirit doesn’t contradict the Word of the Father. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not in the habit of lying to their people, either.

The next thing you should do is tell your vision to somebody you know who is very wise and holy of life, who has more experience than you do with spiritual things. Ask them what they think. Do what they advise.

The third thing you should do is not fixate on the vision. If it told you something true from God, obey the message from God and don’t keep staring at the envelope. If it was a false vision from your own brain or from the Devil, don’t give it another thought. (And frustrate the Devil by praying more.)

Thank you for your comments! This question is just to see where people’s faith is.

Thanks again!

Blessings!

 

[storm807]

Hi Storm,

I would believe the Church’s teachings. As a matter of fact, that is one of the tests to apply to any sort of supernatural occurances. If what is said is contrary to Scripture and Church teaching, then it is not of God.

Galatians1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

It is a test that I use even on my own insights into Scripture. If my interpretation disagrees with official Church teaching, then I know which of us is mistaken - it’s me, not the Church.

Nita

I agree with you on if it contradicts the word of God then its notof God but What if it does not contradict God’s word?
who will you believe,your soul or the church??

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If it does not contradict the word of God, it cannot POSSIBLY contradict the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[storm807]

My Church’s teachings.

We know from Scripture that Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. We also know from Scripture that Christ established a church, and gave that church authority of interpretation on spiritual teachings, guided by the Holy Spirit.

Any ‘vision’ that conflicted with the teachings of my Church–which I truly believe was instituted by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit–would by definition conflict with Scripture --the word of God–and thus of course would conflict with the Living Word of God, Christ Jesus.

Since God is not divided against himself, then anything ‘against’ Him is of Satan.

Would you trust your personal ‘vision’, or would you trust the pillar and foundation of truth (The Church) and its Scripture and Tradition, established and given by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit?

It’s a lot easier for Satan to fool one person than it is for him to try to overthrow the Church Jesus built.

no conflict of teachings, just that you get a vision but its not what your church teaches.who do you go with?

 

[storm807]

If it does not contradict the word of God, it cannot POSSIBLY contradict the teachings of the Catholic Church.

“Cannot Posssibly”. Does the foundation of your church follow the law exactly? not a step off anywhere?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Can’t happen. What possible vision could I get that would be important enough to be ‘from God’, yet unimportant enough that there is ‘nothing’ said about it in my Church’s teachings to 'conflict with?"

And you’ve changed the original post. The original post specifically said the vision “did not agree” with Catholic teachings.

Now you’re saying, “the vision is not a conflict but it isn’t what your Church teaches.” Say what now? If it isn’t what my Church teaches, it IS a conflict, isn’t it?

I think you’ll have to give a specific example.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Does the foundation of your church follow the law exactly? not a step off anywhere?

The teachings follow the law. Adherents do not always follow the teachings perfectly, but does any church have its members always follow the teachings perfectly at all times? The failures of people to follow a teaching perfectly do not mean the teaching itself is at fault.

 

[Mintaka]

You’re setting up a false dichotomy, looking for an “either-or”.

God and the Church are the Bridegroom and the Bride. What God has joined, let no man (or vision) put asunder.

 

[storm807]

Can’t happen. What possible vision could I get that would be important enough to be ‘from God’, yet unimportant enough that there is ‘nothing’ said about it in my Church’s teachings to 'conflict with?"

And you’ve changed the original post. The original post specifically said the vision “did not agree” with Catholic teachings.

Now you’re saying, “the vision is not a conflict but it isn’t what your Church teaches.” Say what now? If it isn’t what my Church teaches, it IS a conflict, isn’t it?

I think you’ll have to give a specific example.

I didn’t changed the original post. its still the same.
When I had asked what if it was not a conflict was later on down the line but the original post is the same,it was not touched.

I just want to see how many people dont trust their own souls.
I want to see how many people feel they are not worthy of a message from God and WOW!!! most people dont believe they are worthy. I just find it amazing that people feel that God would not want to talk to his children.Why?are people so bad that God cant stand us enough not to talk to us? He talks,we just dont listen,we put everything in between us.Jesus is the bridge to that.

this was not an attack on you I hope that you understand that.

Blessings!

 

[storm807]

You’re setting up a false dichotomy, looking for an “either-or”.

God and the Church are the Bridegroom and the Bride. What God has joined, let no man (or vision) put asunder.

Im just trying to figure out why people feel they are not worthy of a message from God but another man is? Why is it so hard to believe that God would speak to us?

Please no offense here, but would you believe he would speak to the Pope first before he speaks to you?

Blessings!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

You are asking us to trust our ‘one’ soul over and above God’s own teachings, which is indeed an ‘either-or’ false dichotomy.

I do not ‘trust myself more’ if I opt to reject my Church’s teachings in favor of a ‘vision’ which I have absolutely no certainty is true.

Rather, you ask me to 'trust my Church less". To trust less in the word of God which has been authentically proven to be truth, and more in the ‘vision’ that has absolutely no guarantee of its truth.

Frankly, I can’t understand the mindset that would jump so quickly to reject God’s own word from God’s own church in favor of a novelty from who-knows-where. . .

 

[LilyM]

Im just trying to figure out why people feel they are not worthy of a message from God but another man is? Why is it so hard to believe that God would speak to us?

Please no offense here, but would you believe he would speak to the Pope first before he speaks to you?

Blessings!

Nothing to do with not being worthy, not in the slightest. If I have a vision, recommend it to the investigation of the Church and the Church finds that it doesn’t contradict them, then God be praised for it and no feelings of unworthiness.

What we’re talking about is an awareness that the 2,000 years of collective wisdom of Christ’s Holy-Spirit-protected Church is greater than mine or yours as individuals. And we can implicitly trust in the Church’s guidance, which is safeguarde by the Holy Spirit and was promised by Christ himself.

After all, scripture never promises you or me personally that we will be the pillar and bulwark of truth - but it does say so of the Church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

This is really an appeal to pride.

Actually, yes, I DO believe God would speak to the Pope before he would speak to me. The Pope, after all, is His vicar on earth, responsible for the spiritual welfare of billions of people.

However, I certainly do not rule out that He would speak to me; most certainly He does speak to us all.

That does not mean that He sends me ‘visions’, though, and CERTAINLY it doesn’t mean that He sends me ‘visions’ that contradict the Catholic faith which comes to us from Christ and His apostles.

 

[storm807]

You are asking us to trust our ‘one’ soul over and above God’s own teachings, which is indeed an ‘either-or’ false dichotomy.

I do not ‘trust myself more’ if I opt to reject my Church’s teachings in favor of a ‘vision’ which I have absolutely no certainty is true.

Rather, you ask me to 'trust my Church less". To trust less in the word of God which has been authentically proven to be truth, and more in the ‘vision’ that has absolutely no guarantee of its truth.

Frankly, I can’t understand the mindset that would jump so quickly to reject God’s own word from God’s own church in favor of a novelty from who-knows-where. . .

Great speaking with you tonight,gotta get ready for work tomorrow but I really hope we can finish this up tomorrow so please leave comments for me to answer back to.

But tell me, would you be lost without the church?
“Church-less”. I am asking you if you would trust your soul,spirit which was created by God. Could survive without your church and live by your spirit?

Have a great night!!

Blessings!

 

[upbeatjonm]

Im just trying to figure out why people feel they are not worthy of a message from God but another man is? Why is it so hard to believe that God would speak to us?

Please no offense here, but would you believe he would speak to the Pope first before he speaks to you?

Blessings!

Storm, we do believe that God can and does talk to us. We are just saying that we would not believe it was really from God if it contradicted the Bible or the Church that he founded.

 

[storm807]

Storm, we do believe that God can and does talk to us. We are just saying that we would not believe it was really from God if it contradicted the Bible or the Church that he founded.

Thank you!!

Have a blessed night!