Who would you want to talk to for spiritual clarity?

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A_dollars_worth said:
Out of all people in human history to discuss why you believe what you do, who would you want to meet (hypothetically) face to face? (I have excluded Jesus because …)

I am also curious to know if you think there is a risk to your current religion by having such a conversation.
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St Peter because he walked with Christ from the time when HE first started HIS ministry. Mary did not. A better choice for me would have been John the Apostle but you didn’t have that as an option. He not only walked with Christ from day one but also was at the cross and received the vision to write revelations. Just think what he could tell us.

PEACE
 
Any of the 11. But I picked Peter. I could have picked John on second thought; he lived 30 years longer.
Even Judas would be really interesting you would have to admit!
 
inchrist101 said:
St Peter because he walked with Christ from the time when HE first started HIS ministry. Mary did not.
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Mary was at the Wedding at Cana, which was the start of Jesus’ ministry. Her role in that was not insignificant.
 
Why Judas? What sort of clarity would you get from him? Also, Peter seemed a little befuddled in all the Gospels. True, he had great faith, and was given the keys to the kingdom, but he didn’t seem too bright to me. Also, you can read John and Paul right now for spiritual clarity. Peter only has one book in the New Testament. John and Paul have several.
 
inchrist101 said:
St Peter because he walked with Christ from the time when HE first started HIS ministry. Mary did not.
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Our Blessed Mother gave birth to him, taught him to walk and talk, sang with him, prayed with him, ate meals with him, talked with him, and he with her, for hours and hours like any good mother. For thirty years it was Mary and Jesus. For thirty years… Do you really think that the Lord did not confide in His own Mother? I guarantee you that The Blessed Virgin had a far more perfect knowledge of the work of Christ than any of the disciples. After all, who deserted him when he was struck? Who remained at the foot of the cross giving her full motherly consent to her son’s sacrifice?

Anywho, not looking for an argument. Just food for thought.
 
JonNC said:
On what issue? Justification by grace through faith? Church authority? The Eucharist?

Jon
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Church authority.
Tantum_ergo said:
Veri and Jon: Could you take the debate on Luther to a new thread, please? It kind of detracts from this one. 🙂
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It was part of OP I think. I don’t want to debate about Luther or Mohammed in this thread but it does make me also wonder. As a Catholic I wouldn’t think Peter would confirm Mohammed as legitimate but on the outside chance he might- would I be willing to hear it and accept it? Would a Jew ‘risk’ speaking with Moses if the possibility existed he would confirm Jesus?

Assume for a moment that JonNC spoke with Peter. I obviously think Peter would not confirm Luther but in the hypothetical, would JonNC be willing to find out? What if Peter confirmed Luther but with a different understanding you have about him, would you be willing to change your mind about him?
 
Verisimilitude said:
Church authority.

Assume for a moment that JonNC spoke with Peter. I obviously think Peter would not confirm Luther but in the hypothetical, would JonNC be willing to find out? What if Peter confirmed Luther but with a different understanding you have about him, would you be willing to change your mind about him?
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I thought it was in line with the OP, also, or I would not have responded. If the OP thinks it is not, I’ll conform, all due respect to Tantum.

The thrust of the question was to seek spiritual clarity. So,
to answer your question, I think we would all do well, in this hypothetical or in fimal reality, to expect some our notions would be shaken. Of course, in either of your scenarios, I would be willing to change my mind. I’d be foolish not to.
And you?

Jon
 
Fair enough, V and J. I was a little worried (not about you two) that some might start to engage, not in reasons why they wanted to talk to somebody for clarity, but to turn it into a 'you want to talk to HIM/HER? How stupid of you" direction and then, “Well, if you talked to so-and-so you’d find out your religion was a lie” —“Nuh-UH, you’d be the one finding out” etc.

Which would be a shame. . .ALL of the reasons are really interesting and I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface yet. Cool topic.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Fair enough, V and J. I was a little worried (not about you two) that some might start to engage, not in reasons why they wanted to talk to somebody for clarity, but to turn it into a 'you want to talk to HIM/HER? How stupid of you" direction and then, “Well, if you talked to so-and-so you’d find out your religion was a lie” —“Nuh-UH, you’d be the one finding out” etc.

Which would be a shame. . .ALL of the reasons are really interesting and I don’t think we’ve even scratched the surface yet. Cool topic.
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Tantum,
I completely understand you concern. It bugs me when bomb throwers ruin a neat thread. I thought Veri’s question was pretty good.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
The thrust of the question was to seek spiritual clarity. So,
to answer your question, I think we would all do well, in this hypothetical or in fimal reality, to expect some our notions would be shaken. Of course, in either of your scenarios, I would be willing to change my mind. I’d be foolish not to.
And you?

Jon
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Yes, I think I would but I also know how easy it would be to keep my head in the sand so to speak. At least about some things but as in everything it depends on the particular.

As an example(s), #1: I smoke cigarettes- nasty things that they are I still smoke them. (No I don’t want to divert the thread about this either). Right now… I do not want to know if they have adversly affected my health so I would not purposely go to the doctor to find out. I think I would prefer to just fall over dead one day because of it if they are.

#2: I was a neo-con for years and didn’t know it until I started researching my faith a number of years ago in unrelated study but the result of which it strengthend my faith but has severly altered my political philosophy. Right/wrong/indifferent I have changed my mind on something I didn’t expect or want to exactly.

Now, with respect to seeking that spritual clarity if Peter confirmed the validity of Mohammed I would immediately seek out some of the Muslims here to apologize for being so strident in my speech before going to hell. I would seek out and risk that personally, but if I was talking to Peter I wouldn’t bring up or want to know about the smoking because I lack either will power to quit now even though I want to, or admit an addiction that I’d rather not admit.

I suppose I am saying I have spiritual willpower but not the physical. Maybe it is the other way around for others I don’t know. Maybe it’s all the same, I don’t know that either.
 
I picked Paul right away…I kind of think I have similar personality traits (impatience maybe being one of them) as Paul, and of course in just a very dim and shadowy way…Hippocrates labeled the four different temperaments; we’re both cholerics.

Glad
 
Verisimilitude said:
Yes, I think I would but I also know how easy it would be to keep my head in the sand so to speak. At least about some things but as in everything it depends on the particular.

Now, with respect to seeking that spritual clarity if Peter confirmed the validity of Mohammed I would immediately seek out some of the Muslims here to apologize for being so strident in my speech before going to hell. I would seek out and risk that personally, but if I was talking to Peter I wouldn’t bring up or want to know about the smoking because I lack either will power to quit now even though I want to, or admit an addiction that I’d rather not admit.

I suppose I am saying I have spiritual willpower but not the physical. Maybe it is the other way around for others I don’t know. Maybe it’s all the same, I don’t know that either.
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Having spiritual willpower but lacking physical willpower.
Hmm, seems to me that you are a member of a very large club, and you’re not the founder. Christ said to the disciples in the garden, “the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak”.
So, my friend, I’ll show you my membership card, if you show me yours.

The fact that you would go apologize to a Muslim tells me you would confess your sins to God as well. So, I don’t think you would go to hell.

Jon
 
I picked St Paul because I love his letters.

I would also like to talk to Mary!

but I also believe that Mary was just so pure that her faith would be difficult for me to understand… I can “get” St. Paul because he is a convert like me. He absolutely did great harm to the people who followed Jesus. I also made fun of Christianity while I was a Mormon I understand that sort of humbling experience!

in Christ
Steph
 
JonNC said:
The fact that you would go apologize to a Muslim tells me you would confess your sins to God as well. So, I don’t think you would go to hell.

Jon
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Even in the scenerio as the OP I could not follow Mohammeds way even if Peter said I should so I think hell would be my destination regardless of my apology.
 
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