Who wrote the Book of Mormon and where did it come from?

[chris2009]

The Book of Mormon is a 531 page book comparable to the Bible that came forth in 1829 in upstate New York by a farm boy named Joseph Smith. It testifies that Jesus is the Christ. The Bible was written by the descendants of Judah in the Old World. The Book of Mormon was written by the descendants of Joseph in the New World(Americas). As you may recall from the Bible, out of the twelve tribes of Israel, Judah and Joseph were the lead tribes.

Ezekiel 37:15-20 says, “15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.”

Moses prophesied that in the last days it would be Ephraim’s descendants who would gather Israel together. The unicorn is the symbol of Ephraim. He will gather Israel in the latter days.

Deut 33:13-17 says, “13 And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the Lord be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath,
14 And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon,
15 And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,
16 And for the precious things of the earth and fulness thereof, and for the good will of him that dwelt in the bush: let the blessing come upon the head of Joseph, and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren.
17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”

Moses said of Joseph “Blessed of the Lord be his land…” Where is Joseph’s land?

He then mentions the “ancient mountains” and the “lasting hills”. Where is this special land?

Jacob gave a similar prophecy concerning Joseph.
Gen 49:22,26 says “22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall”
“26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.”

What does this mean? A “bough” is a major branch of a tree. This branch of Joseph by a well ran over the wall. The Pacific Ocean was considered an unpassable wall anciently. A branch of Joseph crossed the ocean to the Americas in 600 BC.

Again there is mention of the “everlasting hills” in this special land. Where is this? There is a mountain range like none in the entire world that stretches from Alaska down through Canada, through the US all the way down to the tip of South America. These are the “everlasting” or “lasting” hills. THIS is the land of JOSEPH. Just as Joseph was seperated from his brethren in Egypt, so too were descendants of Joseph seperated from their brethren in Isreal in 600 BC. They came to America and wrote the Book of Mormon. This special book was preserved by the Lord for our day so the Lord could do a marvelous work and a wonder in restoring His true gospel to the earth. The book itself stands as a solid testimony of this work.

So, the stick of Judah was written by the descendants of Judah(Jews) in the land of Judah.

So also, the stick of Joseph was written by the descendants of Joseph in the land of Joseph(Americas). And the Lord called the prophet Joseph to bring this work forth.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

so you’re saying that Ezekiel 37:15-20 is talking about the Bible and the Book of Mormon?

also, your interpretation of Genesis 49 is very…interesting. Is that a common LDS interpretation?

 

[chris2009]

so you’re saying that Ezekiel 37:15-20 is talking about the Bible and the Book of Mormon?

also, your interpretation of Genesis 49 is very…interesting. Is that a common LDS interpretation?

Yes, Ezekiel is speaking of the Bible(stick of Judah) and the Book of Mormon(stick of Joseph or Ephraim). The Lord says that the day will come when “they shall become one in thy hand”. As you may be aware, the LDS scriptures are often printed in one book with all our standard works of scripture. These two records are one. They are a witness to the world from two seperate continents that Jesus is the Christ. Since the beginning of time, anytime the Lord’s church is restored to the earth there is always new scripture. The Jews accused Jesus of teaching “new doctrine”. They didn’t recognize the Messiah they believed in. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see (or recognize) God.

I’m not sure if my interpretation of Gen 49 and Deut 33 are official LDS doctrine, however, I know it is true. I can sense it deeply.

The story of Joseph of Egypt is a symbol of the future. Remember Joseph was seperated from his brethren to a foreign land. Then through the power of God he rose in power only second to Pharoh. Through the power of God he revealed the seven years of plenty and seven years of famine. The Lord worked through Joseph to save his family (Israel) and to also save the world.

The Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 48:7-11 says:
“7 And Jacob said unto Joseph when the God of my father appeared unto me in Luz, in the land of Canaan; he sware unto me, that he would give unto me, and unto my seed, the land for an everlasting possession.
8 Therefore, O my son, he hath blessed me in raising thee up to be a servant unto me, in saving my house from death;
9 In delivering my people, thy brethren, from famine which was sore in the land; wherefore the God of thy fathers shall bless thee, and the fruit of thy loins, that they shall be blessed above thy brethren, and above thy father’s house;
10 For thou hast prevailed, and thy father’s house hath bowed down unto thee, even as it was shown unto thee, before thou wast sold into Egypt by the hands of thy brethren; wherefore thy brethren shall bow down unto thee, from generation to generation, unto the fruit of thy loins for ever;
11 For thou shalt be a light unto my people, to deliver them in the days of their captivity, from bondage; and to bring salvation unto them, when they are altogether bowed down under sin.”

Remember what Moses said in Deut 33 about Ephraim (he holds the birthright) gathering or pushing Israel to the ends of the earth in the last days?

I believe the descendants of Joseph and Ephraim are on the earth today. Don’t misunderstand me, they are not to be worshipped or anything. But I do believe the Lord has preserved them to come in this day of wickedness to save Israel and to save the world from the spiritual famine that has come AND the physical famine that is about to come. The Lord has foreseen our day today and has prepared a way. His storehouses will be full and ready to save the righteous when the storm comes.

This land of America is a special land. I believe the Lord inspired men to write the Constitution so that the gospel could be restored in a land of liberty. Remember what Daniel said in chap 2:44, “And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” This prophecy has a spiritual and a literal fulfillment.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

In Ezekiel 37:15-17, we see that God tells Ezekiel to write on the two sticks, so I’d be interested to hear how it is deduced that the sticks are the Bible and the Book of Mormon, since Ezekiel is told to do the writing. God tells Ezekiel exactly what to write on the two sticks (For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions; “For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions”), so again I’d be curious as to how this is interpreted as being the Book of Mormon and the Bible.

Also, how is “Judah” associated with the entire Bible?

Interestingly, God explains after he talks about the two sticks what He actually meant. God prepares Ezekiel to answer the children of the people who would ask what is meant by the two sticks and joining them in his hand, by saying that He will take the children of Israel and bring them into their own land, and He will make them one nation, and they won’t be two nations any longer, or divided into two kingdoms. (verses 21-22).

So again, I don’t see how this is the Book of Mormon and the Bible.

 

[why_me]

Interestingly, God explains after he talks about the two sticks what He actually meant. God prepares Ezekiel to answer the children of the people who would ask what is meant by the two sticks and joining them in his hand, by saying that He will take the children of Israel and bring them into their own land, and He will make them one nation, and they won’t be two nations any longer, or divided into two kingdoms. (verses 21-22).

So again, I don’t see how this is the Book of Mormon and the Bible.

Since the Book of Mormon makes clear that Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, brother of Ephraim (Alma 10:3), it is less than straight forward to identify it as the “stick of Ephraim”. Nevertheless some LDS general authorities have made such an attempt. Orson Pratt claimed another ancestor of the Book of Mormon peoples, Ishmael, was an Ephraimite in 1850. The late reminiscences of Franklin D. Richards and Erastus Snow attributed this teaching to Joseph Smith and the missing 116 pages. Joseph Fielding Smith additionally emphasized that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Ephraim and noted that this fits well with the alternative phrasing found in v. 19 of “the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim.”

In context, this portion of Ezekiel’s record is a prophecy of the restoration and reunification of the divided house of Israel. Ezekiel sees a vision of a valley of dry bones that are miraculously reassembled with flesh, and the breath of life returns to them (37:1–10). The Lord promises Ezekiel that he will raise the people of Israel from the dead and give them rest in their own land (11–14). The Lord then gives the prophecy of the sticks (15–20). He explains the sticks represent the restoration of Israel to their homeland and reunification of the formerly separated nations of Judah and Israel (Ephraim) (21–22). They will live God’s law, be purified from unrighteousness, and be ruled over by the heir of house of David (23–28).

So what does the Book of Mormon have to do with the reunification of Israel and how does Lehi, descendant of Manasseh, fit into a prophecy of a “stick of Ephraim”?

For Latter-day Saints this is an example of “likening the scriptures unto ourselves,” as Nephi suggested (1 Nephi 19:23). The Book of Mormon is the restoration scripture for modern-day Ephraim—the people of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and a message that they take to the world so that Israel may be gathered a final time in preparation for the second coming of the Lord

en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_as_the_stick_of_Ephraim

This is the explanation that is given.

 

[Eucharisted]

Mormonism flies in the face of Scriptural verses which condemn falsehood. Most Mormons don’t believe this, though, because they, like many Protestants, believe they know better than Catholics, even if the Catholic Church created the biblical canon.

The Bible confirms the Gospel

Acts 15
7 After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.”

Acts 20
24 “Yet I consider life of no importance to me, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to bear witness to the gospel of God’s grace.”

Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel. It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: for Jew first, and then Greek.
17 For in it is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith; as it is written, “The one who is righteous by faith will live.”

The Bible condemns false prophets and messiahs and teachers who introduce heresies

Galatians 2
3 Moreover, not even Titus, who was with me, although he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised,
4 but because of the false brothers secretly brought in, who slipped in to spy on our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, that they might enslave us -
5 to them we did not submit even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain intact for you.

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.”

Mark 13
22 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders in order to mislead, if that were possible, the elect.
23 Be watchful! I have told it all to you beforehand.

2 Peter 2
1 There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.
3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destructiondoes not sleep.

The Bible condemns revelations which say Jesus is not God Incarnate

1 John 4
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.

The Bible condemns those who claim to be living apostles

2 Corinthians 11
12 And what I do I will continue to do, in order to end this pretext of those who seek a pretext for being regarded as we are in the mission of which they boast.
13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.

The Bible condemns false gospels

Galatians 1
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel
7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!

 

[ricko]

It has been shown many times that the BOM is a false gospel beginning with a man using a “seer stone” that he also used to find hidden treasure which never worked. Claimed to be the most “correct book ever written” yet contained thousands of errors. Some words are such obivious inserts by Joseph Smith that Mormons claim he put them in to make it easier to understand. This is a book claimed to be translated by god himself yet the Mormons cannot see the problem with changing what god has translated. No evidence has ever been found of these “great cities” and the Mormons cannot accept that fact. Instead they reply “not yet has anything been found”.

The BOM conflicts with the Bible and even conflicts with current Mormon teachings. There are hundreds of problems with LDS teachings and doctrines from the BOM, the witnessess, the golden plates, the missing manuscript, the non-existent Great Apostasy and many more things. Non Mormons often wonder if Mormons have any reasoning power at all to believe such teachings.

 

[StLawrenceFan]

The book of mormon is complete fiction; a work of arrogance.
The Canon of the Bible was already closed 1800+ years before.

The book of mormon …is arrogant and dishonest ( to say the least).

A great video is found here to explain it all:

However, the video is quite long.

Gordon Hinkley, a mormon false-prophet even says here that mormons believe in a different Christ than Jesus of the Bible.

If you want to skip to the chase…any mormon, or anyone needing proof of the complete fiction of the of the video. 54:27

**Game Over. **

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Since the Book of Mormon makes clear that Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, brother of Ephraim (Alma 10:3), it is less than straight forward to identify it as the “stick of Ephraim”. Nevertheless some LDS general authorities have made such an attempt. Orson Pratt claimed another ancestor of the Book of Mormon peoples, Ishmael, was an Ephraimite in 1850. The late reminiscences of Franklin D. Richards and Erastus Snow attributed this teaching to Joseph Smith and the missing 116 pages. Joseph Fielding Smith additionally emphasized that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Ephraim and noted that this fits well with the alternative phrasing found in v. 19 of “the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim.”

In context, this portion of Ezekiel’s record is a prophecy of the restoration and reunification of the divided house of Israel. Ezekiel sees a vision of a valley of dry bones that are miraculously reassembled with flesh, and the breath of life returns to them (37:1–10). The Lord promises Ezekiel that he will raise the people of Israel from the dead and give them rest in their own land (11–14). The Lord then gives the prophecy of the sticks (15–20). He explains the sticks represent the restoration of Israel to their homeland and reunification of the formerly separated nations of Judah and Israel (Ephraim) (21–22). They will live God’s law, be purified from unrighteousness, and be ruled over by the heir of house of David (23–28).

So what does the Book of Mormon have to do with the reunification of Israel and how does Lehi, descendant of Manasseh, fit into a prophecy of a “stick of Ephraim”?

For Latter-day Saints this is an example of “likening the scriptures unto ourselves,” as Nephi suggested (1 Nephi 19:23). The Book of Mormon is the restoration scripture for modern-day Ephraim—the people of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and a message that they take to the world so that Israel may be gathered a final time in preparation for the second coming of the Lord

en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_as_the_stick_of_Ephraim

This is the explanation that is given.

I don’t see what any of that has to do with what I said, except that it is using the Book of Mormon to prove itself.

In Ezekiel 37, God tells Ezekiel(not anyone else), what to write on the two sticks. He tells him to write “For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions” and “For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions”.

God then specifically tells Ezekiel what to say when people ask him what the two sticks, put together as one in his hand, mean. He says that it symbolizes the two nations coming together as one, and that they will no longer be separated. This also has a clear historical context. During Ezekiel’s time, Israel was divided into two kingdoms, the Kingdom of Israel (of which Ephraim was the largest tribe, which together with the Tribe of Manasseh formed the House of Joseph) and the Kingdom of Judah.

So again, how do we get from any of this that God was talking about the Bible and the Book of Mormon, when Ezekiel 37 clearly shows what God was talking about, and what God meant about the two sticks? How do we get that God is not talking about sticks, or not talking about what He said He was talking about in reference to the two sticks?

How does the entire Bible equal “Judah”?

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Since the Book of Mormon makes clear that Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, brother of Ephraim (Alma 10:3), it is less than straight forward to identify it as the “stick of Ephraim”. Nevertheless some LDS general authorities have made such an attempt. Orson Pratt claimed another ancestor of the Book of Mormon peoples, Ishmael, was an Ephraimite in 1850. The late reminiscences of Franklin D. Richards and Erastus Snow attributed this teaching to Joseph Smith and the missing 116 pages. Joseph Fielding Smith additionally emphasized that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Ephraim and noted that this fits well with the alternative phrasing found in v. 19 of “the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim.”

In context, this portion of Ezekiel’s record is a prophecy of the restoration and reunification of the divided house of Israel. Ezekiel sees a vision of a valley of dry bones that are miraculously reassembled with flesh, and the breath of life returns to them (37:1–10). The Lord promises Ezekiel that he will raise the people of Israel from the dead and give them rest in their own land (11–14). The Lord then gives the prophecy of the sticks (15–20). He explains the sticks represent the restoration of Israel to their homeland and reunification of the formerly separated nations of Judah and Israel (Ephraim) (21–22). They will live God’s law, be purified from unrighteousness, and be ruled over by the heir of house of David (23–28).

So what does the Book of Mormon have to do with the reunification of Israel and how does Lehi, descendant of Manasseh, fit into a prophecy of a “stick of Ephraim”?

For Latter-day Saints this is an example of “likening the scriptures unto ourselves,” as Nephi suggested (1 Nephi 19:23). The Book of Mormon is the restoration scripture for modern-day Ephraim—the people of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and a message that they take to the world so that Israel may be gathered a final time in preparation for the second coming of the Lord

en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_as_the_stick_of_Ephraim

This is the explanation that is given.

Oh and you forgot the concluding sentence:

“Although Ezekiel was speaking directly of reunification, Latter-day Saints have **applied their own modern application of this passage **as it relates to the Book of Mormon’s role in the restoration of the gospel and the gathering of Israel.”

 

[ParkerD]

I don’t see what any of that has to do with what I said, except that it is using the Book of Mormon to prove itself.

In Ezekiel 37, God tells Ezekiel(not anyone else), what to write on the two sticks. He tells him to write “For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions” and “For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions”.

God then specifically tells Ezekiel what to say when people ask him what the two sticks, put together as one in his hand, mean. He says that it symbolizes the two nations coming together as one, and that they will no longer be separated. This also has a clear historical context. During Ezekiel’s time, Israel was divided into two kingdoms, the Kingdom of Israel (of which Ephraim was the largest tribe, which together with the Tribe of Manasseh formed the House of Joseph) and the Kingdom of Judah.

So again, how do we get from any of this that God was talking about the Bible and the Book of Mormon, when Ezekiel 37 clearly shows what God was talking about, and what God meant about the two sticks? How do we get that God is not talking about sticks, or not talking about what He said He was talking about in reference to the two sticks?

How does the entire Bible equal “Judah”?

ThuriferAcolyte,
I’m trying to follow your logic.

Are you saying that Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled during Ezekiel’s lifetime, by saying that Ezekiel alone, by himself (not the Lord nor anyone else despite what verse 19 says) was to write on the two sticks that were to become “one in mine hand” and were to lead to reunification of the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah and were to lead to an everlasting covenant of peace for their children’s children under the leadership of David forever?

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

ThuriferAcolyte,
I’m trying to follow your logic.

Are you saying that Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled during Ezekiel’s lifetime, by saying that Ezekiel alone, by himself (not the Lord nor anyone else despite what verse 19 says) was to write on the two sticks that were to become “one in mine hand” and were to lead to reunification of the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah and were to lead to an everlasting covenant of peace for their children’s children under the leadership of David forever?

I am not saying that the reunification already happened (I do not believe I commented on that at all).

What I am saying is that in Ezekiel 37, we read that God tells Ezekiel to take two sticks, and what to write on them. God then tells Ezekiel to join them in his hand, becoming one stick. God then preempts the question that the people will ask (what does this mean?), and says that he will join the sons of Israel together into their own land, making them one nation, with one king, and no longer will there be two nations, two kingdoms. I do not see verse 19 saying that anyone else will write on the sticks.

 

[ParkerD]

I am not saying that the reunification already happened (I do not believe I commented on that at all).

What I am saying is that in Ezekiel 37, we read that God tells Ezekiel to take two sticks, and what to write on them. God then tells Ezekiel to join them in his hand, becoming one stick. God then preempts the question that the people will ask (what does this mean?), and says that he will join the sons of Israel together into their own land, making them one nation, with one king, and no longer will there be two nations, two kingdoms. I do not see verse 19 saying that anyone else will write on the sticks.

ThuriferAcolyte,
(Still trying to follow your logic)

Do you think that the following verses pertain to Ezekiel’s time, or to a later time, as to their fulfillment?

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

ThuriferAcolyte,
(Still trying to follow your logic)

Do you think that the following verses pertain to Ezekiel’s time, or to a later time, as to their fulfillment?

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

What I am saying is that God tells Ezekiel what to say when people ask him what is meant by the joining of the two sticks as one. I also said that my comments are not related to whether that reunification that is spoken of in 21-22 actually already happened. The reunification as one nation of Israel is clearly a prophecy of a future event, however my comments are not related to whether that occurred in Ezekiel’s time or whether it occurred in a later time, nor do I have a view on that issue.

 

[PaulDupre]

Ezekiel 37:15-20 says, “15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.”

So, the stick of Judah was written by the descendants of Judah(Jews) in the land of Judah.

So also, the stick of Joseph was written by the descendants of Joseph in the land of Joseph(Americas). And the Lord called the prophet Joseph to bring this work forth.

Mormons should actually READ the bible IN CONTEXT to see what it really means

After I was free of Mormonism and could think for myself, I actually studied the entire bible, including all of Ezekiel 37. It is obvious that this passage is not a prophecy of the coming forth of the BOM. The real meaning of this “proof text” is explained in the next two verses:

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

Ezekiel 37:21-22 (KJV)

The nation of Israel was divided into two kingdoms in 930 BC and was still divided during Ezekiel’s time - the Southern kingdom of Judah and the Northern kingdom of Israel (often refered to as “Ephraim” - the son of Joseph). This passage is a prophecy of the reuniting of these two kingdoms into one united nation following a period of diaspora.

To cast this passage as a prediction of the BOM is a cruel deception so typical of Mormonism.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Mormons should actually READ the bible IN CONTEXT to see what it really means

After I was free of Mormonism and could think for myself, I actually studied the entire bible, including all of Ezekiel 37. It is obvious that this passage is not a prophecy of the coming forth of the BOM. The real meaning of this “proof text” is explained in the next two verses:

The nation of Israel was divided into two kingdoms in 930 BC and was still divided during Ezekiel’s time - the Southern kingdom of Judah and the Northern kingdom of Israel (often refered to as “Ephraim” - the son of Joseph). This passage is a prophecy of the reuniting of these two kingdoms into one united nation following a period of diaspora.

To cast this passage as a prediction of the BOM is a cruel deception so typical of Mormonism.

I agree. Context is everything. I have learned this in many of the “proof texts” given (especially the one about “celestial and terrestrial bodies” and “many mansions” as proof of the 3 tiered Heaven). Of course I’m sure they’d accuse us of the same thing, but that’s how I see the proof texts given by Mormons. Clearly the text is not talking about the Bible, nor the Book of Mormon.

 

[ParkerD]

ThuriferAcolyte,
So, again, when is that “reuniting” going to take place, or when did it take place, following the diaspora which has certainly taken place? (If you don’t care about that, then why not?)

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

ThuriferAcolyte,
So, again, when is that “reuniting” going to take place, or when did it take place, following the diaspora which has certainly taken place? (If you don’t care about that, then why not?)

So again, I have no view on that issue, and have never thought about it. That’s about it.

In reference to Ezekiel 37 in this thread, I am not looking at whether the reunification has occurred, or when it will occur.

 

[ParkerD]

So again, I have no view on that issue, and have never thought about it. That’s about it.

In reference to Ezekiel 37 in this thread, I am not looking at whether the reunification has occurred, or when it will occur.

But the reunification (and a step leading up to it following the diaspora) is the major point of Ezekiel 37. I would think a “student” of Ezekiel 37 would care to figure out whether that reunification has taken place, whether it is about to take place, and whether the step that was to be part of the process before the reunification was to take place (the sticks becoming “one in mine hand”) is a step that has taken place.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

But the reunification (and a step leading up to it following the diaspora) is the major point of Ezekiel 37. I would think a “student” of Ezekiel 37 would care to figure out whether that reunification has taken place, whether it is about to take place, and whether the step that was to be part of the process before the reunification was to take place (the sticks becoming “one in mine hand”) is a step that has taken place.

Unfortunately, none of that is relevant to understanding what is being said in Ezekiel 37, in my opinion. We can study Ezekiel 37, especially in the context of whether the sticks are (or represent) the Book of Mormon and the Bible, without thinking about whether the reunification took place. The reunification is the major point, and yet we do not need to know whether it already occurred to discern the chapter.

Why not inform us as to how the two sticks mean the Book of Mormon (Joseph) and the Bible (Judah), and then we can go on from there. I believe I (and Paul) have already stated our views of what the passage is talking about, and that it has nothing to do with scripture, let alone the Bible and Book of Mormon.