Who wrote the Koran

[Sufi]

See what I actually wrote. I said “for me…”

I’m not Catholic. I’m not liking you calling me one

Good morning. Sorry for calling you something that you claim you are not. My point wad to correct your information which was incorrect. I hope I did that in the least and you won’t continue to go around speaking with out knowledge like InJesus and Exoflare, allowing their own people to believe lies.

 

[Sufi]

hmmmm…

no muslims defending here…its good to hear thier sides too…perhaps!

How long do you want us to defend ignorance and slandering our well misunderstood religion? When people are not even taking the time out to correct their wrong information on it?

 

[Montalban]

The Qur’an tells Muhammad to say these things.

The Koran says Muhammad is to say all the things in the Koran. Only in some he writes from Allah’s perspective, and in others he lets slip that it’s him talking

This proves nothing but ignorance to the un educated.

How is ignorance proved to those who are uneducated? If they were uneducated then you’d be educating to them that they were ignorant.

Look at the preceding verses…
[51.47] And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
[51.48] And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out.
[51.49] And of everything We have created pairs that you may be mindful.

Who is ‘we’? Muhammad can’t make up his mind.

 

[Sufi]

you are here to discredit any nonsense regarding Islam, Meedo

And you are here to spread lies. Which is better?

 

[Sufi]

The Koran says Muhammad is to say all the things in the Koran. Only in some he writes from Allah’s perspective, and in others he lets slip that it’s him talking

How is ignorance proved to those who are uneducated? If they were uneducated then you’d be educating to them that they were ignorant.

Look at the preceding verses…
[51.47] And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
[51.48] And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out.
[51.49] And of everything We have created pairs that you may be mindful.

Who is ‘we’? Muhammad can’t make up his mind.

Allah subhana uses ‘WE’ ‘US’ and ‘OUR’ to desribe Himslef. It’s one of His misteries.

"COME LET ‘US’ MAKE MAN. "

Please read Qur’an with tafsir before making judgements.

“THOU SHALL NOT JUDGE”

Here is some help for you. Take a year off or so, study it then come and get invovled in intellectual discussion as this one.

muslimaccess.com/quraan/tafseer/Ayat%20Al-Kursi.htm

 

[inJESUS]

And you are here to spread lies. Which is better?

lies? at best you can say wrong interpretations. Lies nop;

No i don’t teach heresies. Many of he scholars you are talking spent their lives studying Christian history and already wrote books about the Christian heresies in Quran in addition to legends and Mishna Sanhedrin and apocryphal gospels but of course you won’t find these books in Islamic countries. So it’s not i who teaches them…it’s many scholars Arabs and non-Arabs.

 

[Montalban]

Allah uses ‘WE’ ‘US’ and ‘OUR’ to desribe Himslef. It’s one of His misteries.

I believe in ‘mysteries’ too, but if it’s Allah using the ‘royal we’ there, then suddenly a few verses later, it’s Muhammad speaking in first person.
51: 50 So flee to Allah (from His Torment to His Mercy Islamic Monotheism), verily, I (Muhammad ) am a plain warner to you from Him.

The “I” here can’t be Allah saying that he is himself a plain warner to us from himself.

Within the space of two verses the “I” or “we” switches from Allah to Muhammad, without pause.

Which leaves Muhammad speaking in first person, which was my original point, and we’re now back around to it.

There’s nothing there saying “I am compelled/commanded/requested to say this…”

Please read Qur’an with tafsir before making judgements.

Which one?
Mu’tazili tafsir
Tanwir al-Miqbas
Al-Mu’jam al-Kabeer
Tafsir al-Baghawi
Tafsir ibn Kathir
Tafsir al-Qurtubi
Tafsir al-Tabari
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
Tafsir al-Mizan
Tafsir of Fakhr al-Din
Dur al-Manthur
Fi zilal al-Qur’an
Tafhim al-Qur’an
Tadabbur-i-Qur’an
Holy Quran (puya)
Majma al-Bayan
Nuur al-Thaqalayn
al-Safi

or another?

Here is some help for you. Take a year off or so, study it then come and get invovled in intellectual discussion as this one.

I’m sorry, but the appeal to be to switch off my mind and simply ‘believe’ the inconsistencies has no allure.

Simply because you retrospectively try to attach some sense to Muhammad’s ramblings is however commendable.

 

[Montalban]

It makes for a clumsy way of talking if Allah says to Muhammad “Say the following words for me”

“I (Allah) will do this and that for I am great. I (Muhammad) am the preacher of god. I (Allah) am the creator of the universe”

Also “Say the following…”

“Say that I am the prophet of Allah”

There’s too many ‘say this…’ I should rather be “Say the following…”

“I am the prophet of Allah”

 

[inJESUS]

if WE and US and OUR is a mystery, why don’t try to unreveal it?if Allah is “I”, then the plural is indeed a mystery it was revealed to people before you, the same people who had WE and US and OUR and I

 

[janryboy]

How long do you want us to defend ignorance and slandering our well misunderstood religion? When people are not even taking the time out to correct their wrong information on it?

sorry…but i dont mean to ask for “how long”…

just a plain defense or should i say few words to convey bout the topic…anyway…im not forcing…

for i believe in FREEWILL…

 

[Sufi]

lies? at best you can say wrong interpretations. Lies nop;

No i don’t teach heresies. Many of he scholars you are talking spent their lives studying Christian history and already wrote books about the Christian heresies in Quran in addition to legends and Mishna Sanhedrin and apocryphal gospels but of course you won’t find these books in Islamic countries. So it’s not i who teaches them…it’s many scholars Arabs and non-Arabs.

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say wrong interpretation.

There is no Christian heresay in the Qur’an.

Any one can write a book. What does this mean? We should beleive every book a man or woman writes?

You focus on what this Arab or that Arab teaches on your own time. As for dealing with me, present to me what Muhammad(saw) taught. I haven’t post anything here what your popr or any one in your religion says. I post what the Bible it self says. Please give my religion the same respect. At least when dealing with me, if not when you deal with others.

 

[inJESUS]

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say wrong interpretation.

There is no Christian heresay in the Qur’an.

 

[Sufi]

I believe in ‘mysteries’ too, but if it’s Allah using the ‘royal we’ there, then suddenly a few verses later, it’s Muhammad speaking in first person.
51: 50 So flee to Allah (from His Torment to His Mercy Islamic Monotheism), verily, I (Muhammad ) am a plain warner to you from Him.

The “I” here can’t be Allah saying that he is himself a plain warner to us from himself.

Within the space of two verses the “I” or “we” switches from Allah to Muhammad, without pause.

Which leaves Muhammad speaking in first person, which was my original point, and we’re now back around to it.

There’s nothing there saying “I am compelled/commanded/requested to say this…”

Which one?
Mu’tazili tafsir
Tanwir al-Miqbas
Al-Mu’jam al-Kabeer
Tafsir al-Baghawi
Tafsir ibn Kathir
Tafsir al-Qurtubi
Tafsir al-Tabari
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
Tafsir al-Mizan
Tafsir of Fakhr al-Din
Dur al-Manthur
Fi zilal al-Qur’an
Tafhim al-Qur’an
Tadabbur-i-Qur’an
Holy Quran (puya)
Majma al-Bayan
Nuur al-Thaqalayn
al-Safi

or another?

I’m sorry, but the appeal to be to switch off my mind and simply ‘believe’ the inconsistencies has no allure.

Simply because you retrospectively try to attach some sense to Muhammad’s ramblings is however commendable.

Any tafsir. Just use tafsir. I already said that the Qur’an tells Muhammad(saw) what to say in certain verses. Am I not being clear?

It’s telling Muhammad(saw) to say I AM A CLEAR WARNER. Your mind is bent on the lie that Muhammad(saw) wrote the Qur’an that you can’t even understand something this simple.

Abrabic is not English. I never heard of a pause in Arabic. Is there some kind of new Arabic out there that you need to inform me about?

You are treating Arabic like English which means you’re a baby to topic like this. So just back out for a while. Go study with OutJesus, then come back and dicuss intelligently.

 

[Sufi]

sorry…but i dont mean to ask for “how long”…

just a plain defense or should i say few words to convey bout the topic…anyway…im not forcing…

for i believe in FREEWILL…

I believe in freewill too so what’s going on here? Did I miss something?

 

[Sufi]

It makes for a clumsy way of talking if Allah says to Muhammad “Say the following words for me”

“I (Allah) will do this and that for I am great. I (Muhammad) am the preacher of god. I (Allah) am the creator of the universe”

Also “Say the following…”

“Say that I am the prophet of Allah”

There’s too many ‘say this…’ I should rather be “Say the following…”

“I am the prophet of Allah”

I you do not know Arabic

I you do not understand the Qur’an.

I you need to go to the library for about a year or so then come back.

I the angel Gabrail came to every Prophet(p) and taught them the words of God.

I don’t reply to this message until you clear your thought process and can understand what is being said here.

I

 

[Sufi]

if WE and US and OUR is a mystery, why don’t try to unreveal it?if Allah is “I”, then the plural is indeed a mystery it was revealed to people before you, the same people who had WE and US and OUR and I

Unveil the mystery of God? LOL! Don’t you guys think that the devil try to over take heaven? I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE TRY TO UNVIEL THE MYSTERY OF GOD? You guys play with God just a little bit too much and focus on non necessities.

 

[inJESUS]

Unveil the mystery of God? LOL! Don’t you guys think that the devil try to over take heaven? I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE TRY TO UNVIEL THE MYSTERY OF GOD? You guys play with God just a little bit too much and focus on non necessities.

God Himself revealed what you call “mystery” you can reveal the mystery of the Quran by reading what God revealed before

 

[Sufi]

God Himself revealed what you call “mystery” you can reveal the mystery of the Quran by reading what God revealed before

I think you are tired. Go to sleep bro.

 

[Montalban]

It’s telling Muhammad to say I AM A CLEAR WARNER. Your mind is bent on the lie that Muhammad(saw) wrote the Qur’an that you can’t even understand something this simple.

It doesn’t say that. I already explained the illogic of the way it is structured.

Abrabic is not English.

Truism

I never heard of a pause in Arabic. Is there some kind of new Arabic out there that you need to inform me about?

When I said “without pause” I meant that there’s one verse where (according to you) the “I” is al-lah. The next it’s Muhammad . The next it’s al-lah again. In the scheme of things that context would show that the “I” in one verse is any different from the others.

You are treating Arabic like English which means you’re a baby to topic like this. So just back out for a while. Go study with OutJesus, then come back and discuss intelligently.

Thank you for showing you don’t have an argument.

I you do not know Arabic

It doesn’t matter. I am indeed relying on an English translation, but I accept that the knowledge of those translators is sufficient to translate the Koran into English. And when I read it I go by how they have structured it in English. And how they have structured it in English shows Muhammad wrote it.

I you do not understand the Qur’an.

I you need to go to the library for about a year or so then come back.

Still no argument to present?

I the angel Gabrail came to every Prophet and taught them the words of God.

But in such a way as to make this ‘universal’ faith impossible in any language but Arabic!

I don’t reply to this message until you clear your thought process and can understand what is being said here.

No one’s forcing you. That’s entirely your prerogative. But those scholars who are better at Arabic than I am, and (obviously) better at English than you are have deemed these words in English to best convey the message from the original Arabic.

But your appeal “Just go and read it until you submit to my interpretation” is an interesting approach to discussion. Is this typical of Moslem logic?

 

[Valke2]

All translation is commentary. Especially here.