who wrote the quran

[jakasaki]

mohammed (pbuh) was illiterate ,

~snip~

Narrated 'Ursa:
**The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha **while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). (Sahih Bukhari 7.88)

Narrated Anas bin Malik :
Once the Prophet wrote a letter or had an idea of writing a letter. The Prophet was told that they (rulers) would not read letters unless they were sealed. So the Prophet got a silver ring made with “Muhammad Allah’s Apostle” engraved on it. As if I were just observing its white glitter in the hand of the Prophet … (Sahih Bukhari 1.65)

Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:
Ibn 'Abbas said, “**When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, ‘Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.’ **But 'Umar said, ‘The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah’s Book with us and that is sufficient for us.’ But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me.” Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah’s Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise. (Sahih Bukhari 1.114)

 

[jakasaki]

mohammed (pbuh) was illiterate ,

~snip~

Narrated Said bin Jubair:
Ibn ‘Abbas said, “Thursday! What (great thing) took place on Thursday!” Then he started weeping till his tears wetted the gravels of the ground . Then he said, "On Thursday the illness of Allah’s Apostle was aggravated and he said, “Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray.” The people (present there) differed in this matter and people should not differ before a prophet. They said, "Allah’s Apostle is seriously sick.’ The Prophet said, “Let me alone, as the state in which I am now, is better than what you are calling me for.” The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, “Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them.” I forgot the third (order)" (Ya’qub bin Muhammad said, “I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, 'It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen.” Ya’qub added, “And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.”) (Sahih Bukhari 4.288)

Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Thursday! And how great that Thursday was! The ailment of Allah’s Apostle became worse **(on Thursday) and he said, fetch me something so that I may write to you something after which you will never go astray." **The people (present there) differed in this matter, and it was not right to differ before a prophet. Some said, “What is wrong with him ? (Do you think ) he is delirious (seriously ill)? Ask him ( to understand his state ).” So they went to the Prophet and asked him again. The Prophet said, “Leave me, for my present state is better than what you call me for.” Then he ordered them to do three things. He said, “Turn the pagans out of the 'Arabian Peninsula; respect and give gifts to the foreign delegations as you have seen me dealing with them.” (Said bin Jubair, the sub-narrator said that Ibn Abbas kept quiet as rewards the third order, or he said, “I forgot it.”) (See Hadith No. 116 Vol. 1) (Sahih Bukhari 5.716)

Narrated Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah:
Ibn Abbas said, "When Allah’s Apostle was on his deathbed and there were some men in the house,** he said, ‘Come near, I will write for you something after which you will not go astray.’ **Some of them ( i.e. his companions) said, ‘Allah’s Apostle is seriously ill and you have the (Holy) Quran. Allah’s Book is sufficient for us.’ So the people in the house differed and started disputing. Some of them said, ‘Give him writing material so that he may write for you something after which you will not go astray.’ while the others said the other way round. So when their talk and differences increased, Allah’s Apostle said, “Get up.” Ibn Abbas used to say, “No doubt, it was very unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah’s Apostle was prevented from writing for them that writing because of their differences and noise.” (Sahih Bukhari 5.717)

You know what, there’s more - I feel like I’m spamming the CAF board with this. Like I said, we’ve been down this road before. He was NOT illiterate.

 

[elwill]

From careful observations on the spread of Islam and its history, many evaluations have been made. It is said that angel gabriel appeared to muhammed and gave the verses when he was in the cave for many years. But I heard many people saying that it is not angel gabriel, but satan or devil in the form of Angel Gabriel appeared to muhammed and gave the verses. The history and the events occurred throughout centuries clarify this. MAny of the Christian church leaders in the middle east also made the point that the power of devil spread throughout arabia from 6th century onwards denoting the spread of islam. The life of people in islamic nations and the behaviour of rulers in those nations clearly point to this. One ruler kills another and occupy the position. This is common in most Islamic nations. Take the case of Pakistan, Arabian nations; any islamic nation. this is the case.

can we talk about facts ? i mean just to show me by historical facts what you are talking about
thanx for your effort and time

 

[elwill]

You know what, there’s more - I feel like I’m spamming the CAF board with this. Like I said, we’ve been down this road before. He was NOT illiterate.

jakazaki , i know blind writers , they wrote many books
how did they wrote it , may be someone else wrote for them , right ?
but it’s still when you ask about the writer , the answer will be the name of the blind man , not the name of the man who hold the pen for him

 

[jakasaki]

jakazaki , i know blind writers , they wrote many books
how did they wrote it , may be someone else wrote for them , right ?
but it’s still when you ask about the writer , the answer will be the name of the blind man , not the name of the man who hold the pen for him

Yes and Homer was blind and he wrote the Illiad - what’s your point?

**Your islamic hadiths claim and state mohamad was able to write - ** and if you actually read the posts in detail we have discussed “ummi” meaning “Gentile” - NOT illiterate

 

[jakasaki]

Al-Ala Sura #87

1 Praise the name of thy Lord the Most High,

2 Who createth, then disposeth;

3 Who measureth, then guideth;

4 Who bringeth forth the pasturage,

5 Then turneth it to russet stubble.

**6 We shall make thee read (O Muhammad) so that thou shalt not forget **

 

[jakasaki]

Al-Bayyina Sura #98

1 Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,

**2 A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages **

 

[elwill]

This is something I’ve always had a problem with. I’ve always heard about how much suffering Mohammed endured in Mecca. Yet whenever I read specific historical notes of the period it always sounds more like everyone was trying to placate him, or just asking him to not disparage their traditions. Just an observation. Could be wrong.

They used to throw sand on him so that when he went home he would be covered in dust. His daughter Zaynab cried once when she saw him in that state. “Don’t cry my daughter”, he said, “Allah is supporting your father”. He was certain that reform was on its way. One day they threw camel’s guts on him while he was prostrating in prayer. He remained in prostration, perhaps waiting for one of the Muslims to pass by and take the dirt off his back. His daughter Fatimah was walking by when she saw him. With tears in her eyes, she removed the dirt from his back. He said to her, “Don’t cry my daughter, the Almighty Allah will honour His religion and grant your father victory”.

Another time, Uqbah ibn Abi Mu’ayt took off his robe and wrapped it forcefully around Muhammad’s neck, strangling him until he fell on his knees in pain. Many other times they called the Prophet names, calling him “Muthammam”, meaning “the dispraised one”, or “the blamed one”. All the companions of the Prophet were deeply angered by this, to which he would laugh and say, “Why are you upset? They are insulting Muthammam and I am Muhammad!”

let us look at the following sayings on his life:

Muhammad’s wife A'ishah once said to her nephew, Urwah ibn az-Zubayr, “O my nephew, we would sight three new moons in two months without lighting a fire (to cook a meal) in the Prophet’s houses.” Her nephew asked, “O Aunt, what sustained you?” She said, “The two black things, dates and water, but the Prophet had some neighbors of the Ansar who had milch camels and they used to send the Prophet some of the milk.”

Anas, a Companion of Muhammad, said, “The Prophet did not eat at a table till he died, and he did not eat a thin nicely baked wheat bread till he died.”

Muhammad’s wife `A’ishah said, “The Prophet’s mattress on which he slept was made of leather stuffed with the fiber of the date-palm tree.”

`Amr ibn Al-Harith, one of Muhammad’s Companions, said that when the Prophet died, he left neither money nor anything else except his white riding mule, his arms, and a piece of land that he left to charity.

Again for the sake of argument, why accept a conditional gift when you can have it all on your terms. Certainly for the average person such an offer would be tempting as it is highly generous and reasonable. But if one is by nature a conqueror then this sort of offer is insulting. Mohammed and the Caliphs that followed him were warlords. They wanted territory, and they wanted the glory that came with it. Its the same for any other major historical warlord. In almost every case there were peaceful alternatives, and ultimately no reason at all for their conquests yet they seemed driven. Its a totally alien mindset. But again this is speculation.

Muhammad lived his hard life till he died although the Muslim treasury was at his disposal, the greater part of the Arabian Peninsula was Muslim before he died, and the Muslims were victorious after eighteen years of his Mission.

Is it possible that Muhammad might have claimed Prophethood in order to attain status, greatness, and power?

The desire to enjoy status and power is usually associated with good food, fancy clothing, monumental palaces, colorful guards, and indisputable authority. Do any of these indicators apply to Muhammad? A few glimpses of his life that may help answer this question follow.

Despite his responsibilities as a Prophet, a teacher, a statesman, and a judge, Muhammad used to milk his goat, mend his clothes, repair his shoes, help with the household work, and visit poor people when they got sick. He also helped his Companions to dig a defensive trench by moving sand with them. His life was an amazing model of simplicity and humbleness.

 

[elwill]

Al-Ala Sura #87

1 Praise the name of thy Lord the Most High,

2 Who createth, then disposeth;

3 Who measureth, then guideth;

4 Who bringeth forth the pasturage,

5 Then turneth it to russet stubble.

**6 We shall make thee read (O Muhammad) so that thou shalt not forget **

so you can use the word recite instead of read

but anyway god said to him , that he shall make him read , i can make you read arabic if you just repeat the words after me , yet you still cant read arabic by yourself , right ?

 

[jakasaki]

I believe the title of **your **thread is called “who wrote the quran” and now you are going off and posting muhamads life. Let’s try to stick to the topic. If you wish to discuss mohamads life, well then, please start a new thread.

There is an enteresting passage in a hadith… it’s rather long but I’ll just post the importance of it…

Volume 3, Book 47, Number 755: Narrated 'Urwa from 'Aisha:

…
He then said to her, "Do not hurt me regarding Aisha, as the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of Aisha." …

Are these “divine inspirations” which created the koran?

Did Gabriel appear to mohamad while in bed wtih Aisha? Hmmmmm!!!

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 440:

Narrated Abu Salama:

’Aisha said that the Prophet said to her “O ‘Aisha’ This is Gabriel and he sends his (greetings) salutations to you.” 'Aisha said, “Salutations (Greetings) to him, and Allah’s Mercy and Blessings be on him,” and addressing the Prophet she said, "You see what I don’t see."

The koran was made up by mohamad, written down by scribes, later on many years after mohamads death, all bits & pieces gathered and thrown into a book that Uthman put together.

No one today has the “real koran” as it was written down by the scribes.

And the “Mary” stories in the koran, they are all butchered and taken from Apocryphal Gospels. Link is enclosed so you may research these books and compare them to the koran.

newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm

 

[dzheremi]

They used to throw sand on him so that when he went home he would be covered in dust.

Oh, well THIS justifies the destruction of the Christian/Jewish/Zoroastrian/Buddhist world of the pre-Islamic Middle East, Persia, and Central Asia. Pagans in Arabia made Muhammad DIRTY so now we all have to pay for it! Excuse me if I find this example of “persecution” ridiculous. I went through worse in high school and you don’t see me killing people over it.

His daughter Zaynab cried once when she saw him in that state. “Don’t cry my daughter”, he said, “Allah is supporting your father”. He was certain that reform was on its way. One day they threw camel’s guts on him while he was prostrating in prayer. He remained in prostration, perhaps waiting for one of the Muslims to pass by and take the dirt off his back. His daughter Fatimah was walking by when she saw him. With tears in her eyes, she removed the dirt from his back. He said to her, “Don’t cry my daughter, the Almighty Allah will honour His religion and grant your father victory”.

Which was it? Camel guts or dirt? I’m sorry, but instances of people making Muhammad dirty or throwing something at him, while very disrespectful on their part, might, just might, be the reaction of some less than mature folks dealing with a person who went around claiming to be a prophet and discrediting their religious traditions. It is much, much nicer than Muhammad would treat them once he and his followers got some power. You don’t think Jesus Christ (the source of all peace that can be upon anyone!) went through worse, and responded in a much more peaceful, precedent-setting way? “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, NOT “I will be granted victory because I’m so great”.

Another time, Uqbah ibn Abi Mu’ayt took off his robe and wrapped it forcefully around Muhammad’s neck, strangling him until he fell on his knees in pain. Many other times they called the Prophet names, calling him “Muthammam”, meaning “the dispraised one”, or “the blamed one”. All the companions of the Prophet were deeply angered by this, to which he would laugh and say, “Why are you upset? They are insulting Muthammam and I am Muhammad!”

Well, this is something interesting. Why, if this is how Muhammad responded to their taunts, did he also have other people who insulted him murdered? Why the change of heart?

Muhammad lived his hard life till he died although the Muslim treasury was at his disposal, the greater part of the Arabian Peninsula was Muslim before he died, and the Muslims were victorious after eighteen years of his Mission.

Hahaha. Yeah…a real hard life, right? About a dozen wives, entire armies of people that would do whatever he wanted, war booty, political and military power, etc. Excuse me while I play the world’s smallest violin for your poor, poor prophet.

The desire to enjoy status and power is usually associated with good food, fancy clothing, monumental palaces, colorful guards, and indisputable authority. Do any of these indicators apply to Muhammad? A few glimpses of his life that may help answer this question follow.

Of course they do. He controlled the majority of Arabia, had all the women he wanted, had people who were willing to do anything for him and obeyed his authority as a “prophet of god” unquestionably.

The myths surrounding Muhammad as a simpleton who all these things inadvertantly happened to is insulting to the intelligence of any thinking person. What part of “God will make me (Muhammad) victorious” (a paraphrasing of the story you quoted above) suggests to you the sort of humility that you are ascribing to Muhammad? It’s ridiculous. Muhammad was a warmongering sex-addict with delusions of prophethood. There’s no humility in any of that.

 

[jakasaki]

**so you can use the word recite instead of read **

but anyway god said to him , that he shall make him read , i can make you read arabic if you just repeat the words after me , yet you still cant read arabic by yourself , right ?

It seems you have a problem with verse 6 of chapter 87.

Here is the web site - It’s an islamic site - authentic - you have a problem with the word “read” well then, contact them and tell them that.

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=87&translator=4

 

[elwill]

Yes and Homer was blind and he wrote the Illiad - what’s your point?

my point is that he can’t see to write , surely there were someone write for him what he says , yet you said that he wrote
my point is that saying that mohammed wrote massage dosn’t neccesery means that he wrote them by his hand , the prophet had one of his companion which known as " kateb elrasool" which means the writer of the prophet , but i don’t remember the name of him in that moment

 

[Eucharisted]

Oh, well THIS justifies the destruction of the Christian/Jewish/Zoroastrian/Buddhist world of the pre-Islamic Middle East, Persia, and Central Asia. Pagans in Arabia made Muhammad DIRTY so now we all have to pay for it! Excuse me if I find this example of “persecution” ridiculous. I went through worse in high school and you don’t see me killing people over it.

Which was it? Camel guts or dirt? I’m sorry, but instances of people making Muhammad dirty or throwing something at him, while very disrespectful on their part, might, just might, be the reaction of some less than mature folks dealing with a person who went around claiming to be a prophet and discrediting their religious traditions. It is much, much nicer than Muhammad would treat them once he and his followers got some power. You don’t think Jesus Christ (the source of all peace that can be upon anyone!) went through worse, and responded in a much more peaceful, precedent-setting way? “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”, NOT “I will be granted victory because I’m so great”.

Well, this is something interesting. Why, if this is how Muhammad responded to their taunts, did he also have other people who insulted him murdered? Why the change of heart?

Hahaha. Yeah…a real hard life, right? About a dozen wives, entire armies of people that would do whatever he wanted, war booty, political and military power, etc. Excuse me while I play the world’s smallest violin for your poor, poor prophet.

Of course they do. He controlled the majority of Arabia, had all the women he wanted, had people who were willing to do anything for him and obeyed his authority as a “prophet of god” unquestionably.

The myths surrounding Muhammad as a simpleton who all these things inadvertantly happened to is insulting to the intelligence of any thinking person. What part of “God will make me (Muhammad) victorious” (a paraphrasing of the story you quoted above) suggests to you the sort of humility that you are ascribing to Muhammad? It’s ridiculous. Muhammad was a warmongering sex-addict with delusions of prophethood. There’s no humility in any of that.

Mohammed could have been sincere in thinking he was a prophet - probably deluded, like you said - but we all know he wasn’t one. He was said to be simple at home. Still, even Hitler was simple at home, to use an extreme example. Mohammed fails in being prophet precisely because he himself gave the revelations that said he was a prophet and because he did not give any signs of prophethood. The so-called “signs” in the Qu’ran are all pseudoscience, like fire being under the water (Muslims point to underwater volcanos as a fulfillment of this scientific knowledge, but those volcanos actually erupt hot gas, not fire).

 

[jakasaki]

my point is that he can’t see to write , surely there were someone write for him what he says , yet you said that he wrote
my point is that saying that mohammed wrote massage dosn’t neccesery means that he wrote them by his hand , the prophet had one of his companion which known as " kateb elrasool" which means the writer of the prophet , but i don’t remember the name of him in that moment

Post 20-21 & 22 lists hadiths from islamic books which show mohamad can write - if one can write one can read - NO one is saying mohamad was a scholar but he could read & write.

 

[elwill]

It seems you have a problem with verse 6 of chapter 87.

Here is the web site - It’s an islamic site - authentic - you have a problem with the word “read” well then, contact them and tell them that.

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=87&translator=4

you didn’t answer my question
if i read arabic book and asked you to repeat the arabic words after me , it will mean that i made you read the arabic book , right ?
the word mention here is just one word " sanoqreoka" this single word means we shall made you read

 

[jakasaki]

my point is that he can’t see to write , surely there were someone write for him what he says , yet you said that he wrote
my point is that saying that mohammed wrote massage dosn’t neccesery means that he wrote them by his hand , the prophet had one of his companion which known as " kateb elrasool" which means the writer of the prophet , but i don’t remember the name of him in that moment

First of all, the koran wasn’t in full written form as a book until decades after mohamads death by Uthman.

Keeping with the topic of the thread, **I responded to your “illiterate” first post, opening line of the thread.

I showed you koran verses which state the word “read” - I showed you hadiths with state mohamad wrote.**

Now you are taking this in a “typical muslim circular motion”.

 

[Jay53]

if satan wanted to lead people away from salvation of christ , why then he went to arab pagans , i think that pagans are allready away from salvation , so what was his point ?

That’s easy - because Satan knew he would not be able to lead the faithful Christians astray. They (and the Jews) would question Muhammad’s prophethood. Therefore he had to start with arab pagans who, having no knowledge of the One True God and how He confirms His Word, would not know to question Muhammad. Once he got a few followers, it snowballs. Just look at your list in the other thread. One of your reasons posted for believing Muhammad was that there were numerous people who loved and respected him.

Posted by elwill “Since his days, in every region of the earth and during every period, this Noble Prophet (P.B.U.H) has been followed by individuals from all nations, colors and peoples.”

A billion people can’t be wrong, right? But in this case, they are.

 

[dzheremi]

Mohammed could have been sincere in thinking he was a prophet - probably deluded, like you said - but we all know he wasn’t one.

True. One does not preclude the other, of course. It is perfectly possible that Muhammad was sincerely convinced of his prophethood and deluded at the same time. That I have no problem with, in fact, it seems pretty likely.

 

[Eucharisted]

True. One does not preclude the other, of course. It is perfectly possible that Muhammad was sincerely convinced of his prophethood and deluded at the same time. That I have no problem with, in fact, it seems pretty likely.

I can actually give a personal example of sincere thinking and delusion at the same time. See, for some time in my spiritual life, I had thought that I was some sort of important person, like a prophet, but not exactly a prophet, sort of like a precursor to the end of the world, something like that, and the reason I thought this is because I kept thinking God was giving me signs, which weren’t signs at all, just my pride blinding me. Praise be to Jesus, who is Wisdom itself, who saved me from this delusion, and may He deliver me from every evil, if it His Will!