Whom should a Protestant believe?

[BrianH]

Pray that the schism is healed, Brian. We do at every Mass. That includes you guys, too.

Sub

During Communion, if there are Christians present(I suppose Catholics, Orthodox, and some Baptists who will not share communion unless you are a member of a particular church) the minister says something like, “those do not believe in sharing fellowhip at the Lord’s table with us, please pray for the unity of Christ’s church”.
We do not at every service. Yes, that would be the right thing to do and we should Subrosa.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

I dont know Manny, the Orthodox think you guys split from them when the Roman church overasserted their authority…who am I to decide who is right??

Brian,

All digs aside, the schism was long in coming.

Briefly, the process of alienation began CENTURIES before as the Bishop of Rome in his preeminent position among the other Bishops (I know you disagree on this one) began the progressive development of papal authority, which for the Eastern Church (in Byzantium) contradicted their own tradition of EVERY ONE first among equals.

Then you had language differences: Roman popes no longer knew Greek and the ecumenical patriarchs did not speak nor write Latin.

Different cultures: the Latins thought the Greeks of Byzantium to be arrogant and pedantic and the Greeks looked down on the “barbarous” Latins.

Different rites: a bigger deal then than now in the Catholic Church. We have many ‘rites’ and liturgies to celebrate the Mass and worship God. Then it was REALLY a national identity thing to have a liturgy for your country or ethnicity.

Also, the Greeks forced non-Greeks to learn their language. This was unlike the spread of Christianity under Rome where local languages were written down for the first time by missionaries who gave alphabetic form to oral language prevalent in their region (German, Angle, Danish, for example).

The capper in 1054 which you allude to in your initial post references (in my view) a very meddling cardinal bishop named Humbert (of Silva Candida) who butted heads with an equally arrogant and (in everyone’s view who has written on it) theologically uneducated patriarch named Cerularius.

Humbert went to Constantinople and made it known that the Pope (he wrote the bull for Leo IX) did not consider Cerularius to be worthy of the title of ecumenical patriarch by doubting the validity of his ordination. Humbert then made the rounds rousing support for his views.

The coup de grace on the Church came on July 16, 1054 when Humbert placed the bull of excommunication against the ‘bishop’ Cerularius and his staff on the altar of the Hagia Sophia (taken over by the moslem Turks and now a mosque!).

Cerularius returned the favor to Humbert and his staff before Humbert returned to Rome.

This, like most things in our lives, was idiotic and without reason.

But the Church in Byzantium did not thrive and was almost extinguished by Islam and communism. The Church in Rome thrived and spread Christianity throughout the far East, Europe, Africa and the Americas.

You tell me which Church grew with the Spirit?

And forget the sinners and saints who populate it. I am one of the sinners and I have no problem believing as a Christian in what my Church has taught since Pentacost 33 AD.

I do not judge my Faith by the failings and arrogance of its members, whether laity or religious, whether mendicant monk or career Curia Cardinal.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Pray that the schism is healed, Brian. We do at every Mass. That includes you guys, too.

Sub

Indeed we do. We often pray for other Christians not in union with the Pope to include both Protestants and Orthodox Christian Churches.

 

[jmcrae]

Why were Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture not clear enough to avoid this split?

Jesus said plainly, “Thou art Peter (Rock) and upon this Rock I shall build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it,” (Matthew 16:18), and “Peter, feed my sheep … feed my lambs … feed my sheep.” (John 21:15-19)

And to us, He said (speaking in a parable), “Build your house upon the Rock (Peter), for the wind blew, and mighty was the fall of the house that was built upon the sand, but the house that was built upon the Rock (Peter) will continue to stand.”

But Tradition and Scripture are not loud enough to out-shout the rebellious pride of “nobody’s the boss of me!”, which I believe to be the root cause of all the schisms in the Church, as well as most of the other problems in the world.

We can argue until the cows come home about who’s fault the various splits were, but Jesus takes Peter’s side in all of these disputes, and here we remain, anchored to our Rock, 2000 years later.

 

[Ave_Maria_1]

I recently heard an episcopal convert mention how difficult it was to leave the more reverent liturgy for what the local ‘american catholic’ church had in liturgy. But, he said, doctrine won out. And the Prize is Priceless for it is the Lord.

I can only see to follow the successor of Peter. I do find Sunday Mass more and more difficult with the terrible songs and so forth and have begun to read from my old missal from childhood so as to prepare my heart and soul to receive Jesus.
I could never leave Jesus! And I cannot leave ‘Peter’, the only sure rudder.

Ave Maria!