L
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Guest
CAF community! I’m in a predicament and I am hoping you all can come up with some answers for me. I’ve recently been reading Revelation more and more, and I find myself agreeing with the partial preterist POV that much of what is talked about in Revelation was about that which was going on in those years after Christ. And from reading some of what the OT prophets had to say, its making a lot of sense that the whore/harlot depicted in revelation is the apostate Jerusalem or Israel as a whole of that day.
Hosea 9:1 1 Rejoice not, O Israel! Exult not like the peoples; for you have played the harlot, forsaking your God. You have loved a harlot’s hire upon all threshing floors.
Jeremiah 3:6 6 And the Lord said to me in the days of king Josias: Hast thou seen what rebellious Israel hast done? she hath gone out of herself upon every high mountain, and under every green tree, and hath played the harlot there.
**Isaiah 1:21 **21 How is the faithful city, that was full of judgment, become a harlot? justice dwelt in it, but now murderers.
So we can see here in the Old testament, the prophets referred to Jerusalem/Israel as a harlot of sorts. This would make logical sense in light of Christ referring to the Church as His bride. The contrast between the harlot of an apostate Jerusalem and the purity of the bride (the Church) is fitting. But there are a few things that are confusing me, among the several descriptions in revelation, this city whore/harlot that is being talked about seems to apply to both Rome and Jerusalem depending on its usage.
Revelation 11:7-8 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast, that ascendeth out of the abyss, shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified.
Here in the 11th chapter of Revelation, when speaking about the two witnesses, John writes that they will be killed in “the great city” where their Lord also was crucified. So it seems pretty evident here that the city being talked about is Jerusalem since as we all know, Christ was crucified there.
But read on…
Revelation 18:16-20 16 And saying: Alas! alas! that great city, which was clothed with fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and was gilt with gold, and precious stones, and pearls. 17 For in one hour are so great riches come to nought; and every shipmaster, and all that sail into the lake, and mariners, and as many as work in the sea, stood afar off. 18 And cried, seeing the place of her burning, saying: What city is like to this great city? 19 And they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices: for in one hour she is made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her.
Jerusalem is clearly referred to as “the great city” in Revelation 11:8 but in the verse above there are several instances where this city is referred to as “this great city” or “that great city” and it seems self evident that it is speaking of Rome, because this passage in Revelation 18 speaks of all the economic & commercial benefits this city had, amajor characteristic of ancient Rome.
also in Revelation 17:4-6 it says…
4 And the woman was clothed round about with purple and scarlet, and gilt with gold, and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of the abomination and filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And I wondered, when I had seen her, with great admiration.
It seems as though the harlot which previously appeared to be an apostate Jerusalem now assumes qualities befitting a pagan rome particularly the name on her forehead “Babylon the great”
Revelation 19:1-2 1 After these things I heard as it were the voice of much people in heaven, saying: Alleluia. Salvation, and glory, and power is to our God. 2 For true and just are his judgments, who hath judged the great harlot which corrupted the earth with her fornication, and hath revenged the blood of his servants, at her hands.
This verse seems to be interchangeable. One could argue that it is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, or the sacking of Rome (even though it was all but Christian at the time) Im inclined to lean towards Jerusalem.
and finally
**Revelation 17:16 ** 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest in the beast: these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her with fire.
This seems to refer to Titus and his legions destroying Jerusalem.
So my main question is this: is there any thing out there that has an explanation for this parallel made between apostate Jerusalem and and pagan Rome? There are so many similarities between them, and Revelation seems to reveal that (no pun intended
)
Hosea 9:1 1 Rejoice not, O Israel! Exult not like the peoples; for you have played the harlot, forsaking your God. You have loved a harlot’s hire upon all threshing floors.
Jeremiah 3:6 6 And the Lord said to me in the days of king Josias: Hast thou seen what rebellious Israel hast done? she hath gone out of herself upon every high mountain, and under every green tree, and hath played the harlot there.
**Isaiah 1:21 **21 How is the faithful city, that was full of judgment, become a harlot? justice dwelt in it, but now murderers.
So we can see here in the Old testament, the prophets referred to Jerusalem/Israel as a harlot of sorts. This would make logical sense in light of Christ referring to the Church as His bride. The contrast between the harlot of an apostate Jerusalem and the purity of the bride (the Church) is fitting. But there are a few things that are confusing me, among the several descriptions in revelation, this city whore/harlot that is being talked about seems to apply to both Rome and Jerusalem depending on its usage.
Revelation 11:7-8 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast, that ascendeth out of the abyss, shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which is called spiritually, Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord also was crucified.
Here in the 11th chapter of Revelation, when speaking about the two witnesses, John writes that they will be killed in “the great city” where their Lord also was crucified. So it seems pretty evident here that the city being talked about is Jerusalem since as we all know, Christ was crucified there.
But read on…
Revelation 18:16-20 16 And saying: Alas! alas! that great city, which was clothed with fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and was gilt with gold, and precious stones, and pearls. 17 For in one hour are so great riches come to nought; and every shipmaster, and all that sail into the lake, and mariners, and as many as work in the sea, stood afar off. 18 And cried, seeing the place of her burning, saying: What city is like to this great city? 19 And they cast dust upon their heads, and cried, weeping and mourning, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices: for in one hour she is made desolate. 20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath judged your judgment on her.
Jerusalem is clearly referred to as “the great city” in Revelation 11:8 but in the verse above there are several instances where this city is referred to as “this great city” or “that great city” and it seems self evident that it is speaking of Rome, because this passage in Revelation 18 speaks of all the economic & commercial benefits this city had, amajor characteristic of ancient Rome.
also in Revelation 17:4-6 it says…
4 And the woman was clothed round about with purple and scarlet, and gilt with gold, and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of the abomination and filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written: A mystery; Babylon the great, the mother of the fornications, and the abominations of the earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And I wondered, when I had seen her, with great admiration.
It seems as though the harlot which previously appeared to be an apostate Jerusalem now assumes qualities befitting a pagan rome particularly the name on her forehead “Babylon the great”
Revelation 19:1-2 1 After these things I heard as it were the voice of much people in heaven, saying: Alleluia. Salvation, and glory, and power is to our God. 2 For true and just are his judgments, who hath judged the great harlot which corrupted the earth with her fornication, and hath revenged the blood of his servants, at her hands.
This verse seems to be interchangeable. One could argue that it is talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, or the sacking of Rome (even though it was all but Christian at the time) Im inclined to lean towards Jerusalem.
and finally
**Revelation 17:16 ** 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest in the beast: these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her with fire.
This seems to refer to Titus and his legions destroying Jerusalem.
So my main question is this: is there any thing out there that has an explanation for this parallel made between apostate Jerusalem and and pagan Rome? There are so many similarities between them, and Revelation seems to reveal that (no pun intended
)