Whore of Babylon: Rome, not Vatican.

[nordskoven]

The Whore of Babylon sits on the seven hills standing for seven profane kings in chapter 17 of John’s Apocalypse. The identification of the Whore of Babylon with the Church on the Rock is propagated by many but rejected by protestants like Jack Van Impe. This dishonor, says Van Impe, goes to the CLUB OF ROME, a little-known cabal that brought about the revived Roman Empire of Daniel, the European Union with its monetary unit, the EURO.

The logo of the harmless-sounding CLUB OF ROME’s revived Roman Empire, the European Union, is the goddess Europa riding naked on the back of Zeus as a red bull. The beast is the eighth king who will go to his destruction, i.e., the European Union will tank and 10 kingdoms arise from it, the ten kings of the Antichrist. Militant secularism like that in France will insure a proper pagan note.

Further, the Vatican was not one of the seven hills of Rome. The Vatican is the site of a graveyard, outside the city limits as was Golgotha, the hill of skulls where Christ was executed. Here in the city of the dead Peter offered Mass in a mausoleum with a high altar stone shelf to discourage prying eyes; and a baptistry pool across the alley on the only “street” that was gated for the security of the outlawed Christians celebrating Mass. This site is now below the high altar in St. Peter’s.

The Whore of Babylon is a politico-economic system with the merchants of the Earth mourning her destruction. “They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of Lords and the King of Kings–and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” Rev. 17:14

May the Great Apostasy be mitigated, dear Lord, and may we abide in Your Church and be accounted faithful and true, your pure and spotless bride. AMEN

 

[John7]

The identification of the Whore of Babylon with the Church on the Rock is propagated by many but rejected by protestants like Jack Van Impe. This dishonor, says Van Impe, goes to the CLUB OF ROME, a little-known cabal that brought about the revived Roman Empire of Daniel, the European Union with its monetary unit, the EURO.

The logo of the harmless-sounding CLUB OF ROME’s revived Roman Empire, the European Union, is the goddess Europa riding naked on the back of Zeus as a red bull. The beast is the eighth king who will go to his destruction, i.e., the European Union will tank and 10 kingdoms arise from it, the ten kings of the Antichrist. Militant secularism like that in France will insure a proper pagan note.

Further, the Vatican was not one of the seven hills of Rome. The Vatican is the site of a graveyard, outside the city limits as was Golgotha, the hill of skulls where Christ was executed. Here in the city of the dead Peter offered Mass in a mausoleum with a high altar stone shelf to discourage prying eyes; and a baptistry pool across the alley on the only “street” that was gated for the security of the outlawed Christians celebrating Mass. This site is now below the high altar in St. Peter’s.

Where is any of this in the Bible or CCC ???

 

[reteeks21]

Where is any of this in the Bible or CCC ???

It’s historical fact, at least the last paragraph is.

 

[John7]

It’s historical fact, at least the last paragraph is.

oh…but isn’t this just tradition?

Here in the city of the dead Peter offered Mass in a mausoleum with a high altar stone shelf to discourage prying eyes; and a baptistry pool across the alley on the only “street” that was gated for the security of the outlawed Christians celebrating Mass.

 

[reteeks21]

oh.

I had to read about myself-because what Van Impe was saying-but once I studied it, it made perfect sense that Catholicism isn’t THE whore, or even A whore.Impe just has a historically dishonest view of history and the Bible.

 

[John7]

I had to read about myself-because what Van Impe was saying-but once I studied it, it made perfect sense that Catholicism isn’t THE whore, or even A whore.

I agree with you that Catholicism isn’t the whore.

Impe just has a historically dishonest view of history and the Bible.

He sure has got his Bible verses memorized though…

 

[reteeks21]

I agree with you that Catholicism isn’t the whore.
He sure has got his Bible verses memorized though…

That he does. I guess this is an example of “personal interpretation” getting in the way. Oh God! Did I just say that?! I’m agreeing with Catholics! Lord save me! (just a joke)

 

[bpbasilphx]

Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?

 

[Soutane]

Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?

Truly?Wouldn’t THAT make sense.

 

[Soutane]

I do have a certain fondness for Mr VanImpe and the rather breathless Roxella as they have said some very nice things about Catholics and Catholicism on their tv program which I’m sure has a large fundamentalist,evangelical following.I applaud them for their honesty and courage,but Mr VanImpe is the poster child for the fallacy of personal scripture interpretation…

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?
Truly?Wouldn’t THAT make sense.**

---

From: al-mahdi.atspace.com/roman.html

It might seem, therefore, that Rome is the identity of the city on seven hills. However, this ignores the fact that there are actually many other cities in this world that are also built on seven hills. We list some here:

1. Jerusalem, comprising of Scopus, Nob, “Mount of Corruption” (or “Mount of Offense”), the original Mount Zion, Ophel Mount, Fort Antonia, the new Mount Zion.
2. Istanbul (known as Constantinople before Turkey renamed it).
3. Amman, capitol of Jordan. Today, however, Amman covers some 19 hills.
4. Mecca, comprising of Jabal abu Siba, Jabal Safa, Jabal Marwah, Jabal abu Milhah, Jabal abu Ma’aya, Jabal abu Hulayah and Jabal abu Ghuzlan
5. Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.
6. Kampala in Uganda, comprising of Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere.
7. Lisbon in Portugal.
8. Sheffield in England.
9. Edinburgh in England.
10. Nevada City in USA.
11. Cincinatti in USA, comprising Mt. Adams, Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Fairview Heights, Clifton Heights, Vine Street Hill, Price Hill, Fairmount, Mt. Lookout, Mt. Hope, Mt. Echo, and Mt. Storm.
    :
    :
    etc

OK, you probably get the idea. Last we checked, we found scores of cities around the world that are situated or founded on seven hills. So, we have to be very careful, and if indeed the verse refers to a city on seven hills, then we need to see which ones are of significance to the topic at hand and perhaps could be the one the Bible could mean. While Rome was known as a “city on seven hills,” so was Constantinople, which was often known as “The City on Seven Hills”. Jumping immediately to Rome is a dangerous thing to do given that there are many cities that can also claim this title.

Now, of course, not all these cities are of Biblical significance. We can probably safely rule out the ones that have nothing to do with the Middle East, i.e., Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon, Nevada City, Cincinatti, etc, but some of the other “seven-hilled” cities might be significant in Biblical Eschatology. Three of them, in particular, stand out: Jerusalem, Istanbul and Mecca.

 

[reteeks21]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?
Truly?Wouldn’t THAT make sense.**

---

From: al-mahdi.atspace.com/roman.html

It might seem, therefore, that Rome is the identity of the city on seven hills. However, this ignores the fact that there are actually many other cities in this world that are also built on seven hills. We list some here:

1. Jerusalem, comprising of Scopus, Nob, “Mount of Corruption” (or “Mount of Offense”), the original Mount Zion, Ophel Mount, Fort Antonia, the new Mount Zion.
2. Istanbul (known as Constantinople before Turkey renamed it).
3. Amman, capitol of Jordan. Today, however, Amman covers some 19 hills.
4. Mecca, comprising of Jabal abu Siba, Jabal Safa, Jabal Marwah, Jabal abu Milhah, Jabal abu Ma’aya, Jabal abu Hulayah and Jabal abu Ghuzlan
5. Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.
6. Kampala in Uganda, comprising of Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere.
7. Lisbon in Portugal.
8. Sheffield in England.
9. Edinburgh in England.
10. Nevada City in USA.
11. Cincinatti in USA, comprising Mt. Adams, Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Fairview Heights, Clifton Heights, Vine Street Hill, Price Hill, Fairmount, Mt. Lookout, Mt. Hope, Mt. Echo, and Mt. Storm.
    :
    :
    etc

OK, you probably get the idea. Last we checked, we found scores of cities around the world that are situated or founded on seven hills. So, we have to be very careful, and if indeed the verse refers to a city on seven hills, then we need to see which ones are of significance to the topic at hand and perhaps could be the one the Bible could mean. While Rome was known as a “city on seven hills,” so was Constantinople, which was often known as “The City on Seven Hills”. Jumping immediately to Rome is a dangerous thing to do given that there are many cities that can also claim this title.

Now, of course, not all these cities are of Biblical significance. We can probably safely rule out the ones that have nothing to do with the Middle East, i.e., Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon, Nevada City, Cincinatti, etc, but some of the other “seven-hilled” cities might be significant in Biblical Eschatology. ***Three of them, in particular, stand out: Jerusalem, Istanbul and Mecca./***QUOTE]

I think considering these means we would have to think of Revelation as a futuristic foretelling of events. However, if we look at it in light of history, it is clear that the Beast is Rome (John didn’t even know there was a Mecca, and no other reference to the other cities are found in Scripture or in early teachings) and the Whore is Jerusalem. She is the unfaithful one that the covenant was broke with when the Temple was destroyed. Hey, I may be wrong, but my study of history and eschatology has led me to believe that.

 

[ralphinal]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?
Truly?Wouldn’t THAT make sense.**

---

From: al-mahdi.atspace.com/roman.html

It might seem, therefore, that Rome is the identity of the city on seven hills. However, this ignores the fact that there are actually many other cities in this world that are also built on seven hills. We list some here:

1. Jerusalem, comprising of Scopus, Nob, “Mount of Corruption” (or “Mount of Offense”), the original Mount Zion, Ophel Mount, Fort Antonia, the new Mount Zion.
2. Istanbul (known as Constantinople before Turkey renamed it).
3. Amman, capitol of Jordan. Today, however, Amman covers some 19 hills.
4. Mecca, comprising of Jabal abu Siba, Jabal Safa, Jabal Marwah, Jabal abu Milhah, Jabal abu Ma’aya, Jabal abu Hulayah and Jabal abu Ghuzlan
5. Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.
6. Kampala in Uganda, comprising of Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere.
7. Lisbon in Portugal.
8. Sheffield in England.
9. Edinburgh in England.
10. Nevada City in USA.
11. Cincinatti in USA, comprising Mt. Adams, Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Fairview Heights, Clifton Heights, Vine Street Hill, Price Hill, Fairmount, Mt. Lookout, Mt. Hope, Mt. Echo, and Mt. Storm.
    :
    :
    etc

OK, you probably get the idea. Last we checked, we found scores of cities around the world that are situated or founded on seven hills. So, we have to be very careful, and if indeed the verse refers to a city on seven hills, then we need to see which ones are of significance to the topic at hand and perhaps could be the one the Bible could mean. While Rome was known as a “city on seven hills,” so was Constantinople, which was often known as “The City on Seven Hills”. Jumping immediately to Rome is a dangerous thing to do given that there are many cities that can also claim this title.

Now, of course, not all these cities are of Biblical significance. We can probably safely rule out the ones that have nothing to do with the Middle East, i.e., Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon, Nevada City, Cincinatti, etc, but some of the other “seven-hilled” cities might be significant in Biblical Eschatology. ***Three of them, in particular, stand out: Jerusalem, Istanbul and Mecca./***QUOTE]

I think considering these means we would have to think of Revelation as a futuristic foretelling of events. However, if we look at it in light of history, it is clear that the Beast is Rome (John didn’t even know there was a Mecca, and no other reference to the other cities are found in Scripture or in early teachings) and the Whore is Jerusalem. She is the unfaithful one that the covenant was broke with when the Temple was destroyed. Hey, I may be wrong, but my study of history and eschatology has led me to believe that.

I agree. It is very logical to say that it is Rome-Jerusalem.

Sometimes, though, I think it is Cincinatti

 

[PNEUMA]

The Great Whore was The Great Jewish Sanhedrin (the jewish priesthood)

The Seven-Headed Beast was The Jewish Herodian Dynasty

Herod the Great (the false King of the Jews) was the first of seven kings. Agrippa II was the seventh and last king of the family of Herod the Great, thus last of the Herodians.

The number/name of the Beast points to the rich king Solomon (the King of the Jews)

Herod’s Temple was destroyed The Great Whore and The Beast vanished.
Jesus Christ and the Christian priesthood seized power in heaven and on earth.



Herod’s Temple and Jerusalem in flames

 

[bpbasilphx]

However, if we look at it in light of history, it is clear that the Beast is Rome (John didn’t even know there was a Mecca, and no other reference to the other cities are found in Scripture or in early teachings) and the Whore is Jerusalem.

**Does it really matter whether or not St. John knew there was a Mecca? He was talking about something that would take place much later.

Does a true prophet always understand the significance and all points of his prophecy? Remember, he’s just a messenger.

In any case, Rome actually sits on NINE hills.**

 

[reteeks21]

However, if we look at it in light of history, it is clear that the Beast is Rome (John didn’t even know there was a Mecca, and no other reference to the other cities are found in Scripture or in early teachings) and the Whore is Jerusalem.

Does it really matter whether or not St. John knew there was a Mecca? He was talking about something that would take place much later.

Does a true prophet always understand the significance and all points of his prophecy? Remember, he’s just a messenger.

In any case, Rome actually sits on NINE hills.

How did you come to that conslusion?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?
Truly?Wouldn’t THAT make sense.**

---

From: al-mahdi.atspace.com/roman.html

It might seem, therefore, that Rome is the identity of the city on seven hills. However, this ignores the fact that there are actually many other cities in this world that are also built on seven hills. We list some here:

1. Jerusalem, comprising of Scopus, Nob, “Mount of Corruption” (or “Mount of Offense”), the original Mount Zion, Ophel Mount, Fort Antonia, the new Mount Zion.
2. Istanbul (known as Constantinople before Turkey renamed it).
3. Amman, capitol of Jordan. Today, however, Amman covers some 19 hills.
4. Mecca, comprising of Jabal abu Siba, Jabal Safa, Jabal Marwah, Jabal abu Milhah, Jabal abu Ma’aya, Jabal abu Hulayah and Jabal abu Ghuzlan
5. Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.
6. Kampala in Uganda, comprising of Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere.
7. Lisbon in Portugal.
8. Sheffield in England.
9. Edinburgh in England.
10. Nevada City in USA.
11. Cincinatti in USA, comprising Mt. Adams, Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Fairview Heights, Clifton Heights, Vine Street Hill, Price Hill, Fairmount, Mt. Lookout, Mt. Hope, Mt. Echo, and Mt. Storm.
    :
    :
    etc

OK, you probably get the idea. Last we checked, we found scores of cities around the world that are situated or founded on seven hills. So, we have to be very careful, and if indeed the verse refers to a city on seven hills, then we need to see which ones are of significance to the topic at hand and perhaps could be the one the Bible could mean. While Rome was known as a “city on seven hills,” so was Constantinople, which was often known as “The City on Seven Hills”. Jumping immediately to Rome is a dangerous thing to do given that there are many cities that can also claim this title.

Now, of course, not all these cities are of Biblical significance. We can probably safely rule out the ones that have nothing to do with the Middle East, i.e., Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon, Nevada City, Cincinatti, etc, but some of the other “seven-hilled” cities might be significant in Biblical Eschatology. ***Three of them, in particular, stand out: Jerusalem, Istanbul and Mecca./***QUOTE]

I think considering these means we would have to think of Revelation as a futuristic foretelling of events. However, if we look at it in light of history, it is clear that the Beast is Rome (John didn’t even know there was a Mecca, and no other reference to the other cities are found in Scripture or in early teachings) and the Whore is Jerusalem. She is the unfaithful one that the covenant was broke with when the Temple was destroyed. Hey, I may be wrong, but my study of history and eschatology has led me to believe that.## **FYI - Edinburgh is not in England It cannot be, never has been, is not, and never shall be. Not unless a planet is colonised that makes such a thing possible. On this planet, it’s not. **

Embra is in Scotland - nowhere else (the deutero-Embras in Alabama, New Zealand, etc., etc, are not the one).

**Why do you lot in the US persist in thinking that the whole of Great Britain is England ? England does not extend north of the Tweed. **

Orange bit at top (rather appropriate) = Scotland

Embra is to the east of Glasgow

Purple bit below (equally appropriate) = England

maps-of-britain.co.uk/images/provinces-of-britain.gif

 

[trdchubi]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpbasilphx View Post
Did you know that Mecca sits on seven hills?
Truly?Wouldn’t THAT make sense.**

---

From: al-mahdi.atspace.com/roman.html

It might seem, therefore, that Rome is the identity of the city on seven hills. However, this ignores the fact that there are actually many other cities in this world that are also built on seven hills. We list some here:

1. Jerusalem, comprising of Scopus, Nob, “Mount of Corruption” (or “Mount of Offense”), the original Mount Zion, Ophel Mount, Fort Antonia, the new Mount Zion.
2. Istanbul (known as Constantinople before Turkey renamed it).
3. Amman, capitol of Jordan. Today, however, Amman covers some 19 hills.
4. Mecca, comprising of Jabal abu Siba, Jabal Safa, Jabal Marwah, Jabal abu Milhah, Jabal abu Ma’aya, Jabal abu Hulayah and Jabal abu Ghuzlan
5. Rio de Janeiro in Brazil.
6. Kampala in Uganda, comprising of Mengo, Lubaga, Namirembe, Old Kampala, Kibuli, Nakasero and Makerere.
7. Lisbon in Portugal.
8. Sheffield in England.
9. Edinburgh in England.
10. Nevada City in USA.
11. Cincinatti in USA, comprising Mt. Adams, Mt. Auburn, Walnut Hills, Fairview Heights, Clifton Heights, Vine Street Hill, Price Hill, Fairmount, Mt. Lookout, Mt. Hope, Mt. Echo, and Mt. Storm.
    :
    :
    etc

OK, you probably get the idea. Last we checked, we found scores of cities around the world that are situated or founded on seven hills. So, we have to be very careful, and if indeed the verse refers to a city on seven hills, then we need to see which ones are of significance to the topic at hand and perhaps could be the one the Bible could mean. While Rome was known as a “city on seven hills,” so was Constantinople, which was often known as “The City on Seven Hills”. Jumping immediately to Rome is a dangerous thing to do given that there are many cities that can also claim this title.

Now, of course, not all these cities are of Biblical significance. We can probably safely rule out the ones that have nothing to do with the Middle East, i.e., Rio de Janeiro, Lisbon, Nevada City, Cincinatti, etc, but some of the other “seven-hilled” cities might be significant in Biblical Eschatology. Three of them, in particular, stand out: Jerusalem, Istanbul and Mecca.

Interesting I never know that it also stand on seven hills. Now it adds up to my thoughts on Revelation 17[

](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4493141#post4493141)

1"Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.

2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the WINE of her adulteries."

What affects inflation rates throughout the world? Can we say the rise and fall of energy can drastically affect this? Will OIL prices affect world economy?

How come all governments of the world is remote on the idea of promoting the use of renewable source of energy?

Can we say that most of the countries of the world are addicted to oil?

Where do we get most of our oil now?

3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a DESERT. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns

.

Can we say that we are getting most of our energy source from the desert place literally? Can we say that the Wine of the Harlot (OIL) is being used to defy everything that was said about Jesus in the Bible. Can we say that the rise of the whore’s religion is now being felt throughout the world?

4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

Do we see that this city in the desert is presently embellish with Gold, precious stones and pearls right now?

5 This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Where is Babylon anyway? Is it in a tropical country?

6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

How many times do we hear of Christian martyrs dying under terrorism? How free are the Christians, in proclaiming the Good news of our Lord Jesus Christ in these desert places? How many have died because they were harassed, sanctioned, threatened by the authorities and people because its against their desert law? How about the desert people who came to know the Lord Jesus who were killed and cast out by their own people because they embraced Christianity?

How about Oil Money being used to fund the destruction of the Jewish and Christian faith?

Can we safely say that the revelation 17 says who is the whore literaly?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4493141#post4493141