"Whore of Babylon" vs. "Heretics!"

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reteeks21

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Just curious but what exactly is the difference between one group calling the other such names? I hate it when either group does this, but it seems acceptable for some here to inform us protestants we are heretics who are not part of a true Christian church. Can the saying “I hate it when they do that” not be said by both parties? Many Catholics here hate it when the “whore” idea is thrown around-and rightfully so!-and they want an apology. Can we Protestants not be afforded that same grace by some of the Catholics here that tell us we are heretics and false Christians?

I mean this thread in the sincerest of ways. I do not want to start a polyemic, and I certainly do not want anyone accusing me mixed motives. I think by the other threads I have started that it is obvious that I do not have ill intentions. Thanks ahead of time.
 
The only difference that I would see would relate to those few groups that actually define the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon as an article of faith. There are those who try to sugar coat it, but they hold that the RCC is pure evil, the abode of satan, and sucking as many souls as she can to hell.

BY definition, some Protestants are in a state of heresy. That does not mean that all Protestants are heretics. Nor does it mean that we should call them such. Heretic is a strong word when you get down to it.

I think that we should be able to discuss issues without calling names. That does not mean that I should not be able to refute denominations, like the SDA, who call us satanic.
 
ralphinal said:
The only difference that I would see would relate to those few groups that actually define the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon as an article of faith. There are those who try to sugar coat it, but they hold that the RCC is pure evil, the abode of satan, and sucking as many souls as she can to hell.

BY definition, some Protestants are in a state of heresy. That does not mean that all Protestants are heretics. Nor does it mean that we should call them such. Heretic is a strong word when you get down to it.

***I think that we should be able to discuss issues without calling names. That does not mean that I should not be able to refute denominations, like the SDA, who call us satanic./***QUOTE]

I am in complete agreement! Just because one group says something doesn’t make it so, at least not completely. If there are some protestants who are heretics how do you define which ones?
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reteeks21 said:
ralphinal;4465521:
The only difference that I would see would relate to those few groups that actually define the Catholic Church as the Whore of Babylon as an article of faith. There are those who try to sugar coat it, but they hold that the RCC is pure evil, the abode of satan, and sucking as many souls as she can to hell.

BY definition, some Protestants are in a state of heresy. That does not mean that all Protestants are heretics. Nor does it mean that we should call them such. Heretic is a strong word when you get down to it.

I think that we should be able to discuss issues without calling names. That does not mean that I should not be able to refute denominations, like the SDA, who call us satanic./
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QUOTE]

I am in complete agreement! Just because one group says something doesn’t make it so, at least not completely. If there are some protestants who are heretics how do you define which ones?

In order for someone to be a heretic, in the truest sense, they must know the correct teaching and then choose to deny it. A great example of this would be those people who hold that the Bible does not condemn homosexual unions. It is clear that only one man can marry one woman and those two people are to be each other’s only sex partners. However, some groups redefine every word in there to make an agenda fit.

Most Protestants do not know what the Church teaches or why she is correct in her teachings. That means that they are not guilty of true heresy.
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heretic [herr-it-ik, hir-ret-ik-kl]
Noun
  1. Now chiefly RC Church a person who maintains beliefs contrary to the established teachings of the Church
  2. a person who holds unorthodox opinions in any field
By definition, there are also a great many Catholics that would be considered a heretic, although many people here use the term “cafeteria catholic” instead.
 
But how do you define when someone is not holding to the rcc’s teachings? Which teachings? I understand the teachings of homosexuality for instance, but what else is there? Where is there a line in the sand drawn?
 
reteeks21 said:
But how do you define when someone is not holding to the rcc’s teachings? Which teachings? I understand the teachings of homosexuality for instance, but what else is there? Where is there a line in the sand drawn?
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This is easy. If they disagree with the CCC, there is an issue. The correct teachings are easy to find.
 
reteeks21 said:
Where do I find them? Can you tell me how many there are?
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Look at the CCC. Look at Catholic.com or EWTN.com. No, I cannot tell you how many there are, because the Catholic Faith is a fully fleshed out, theologically-based Faith system. Read the Catechism for a starting point. Or, take the Five Solas and read what the Church teaches. Or pick a topic and go case by case.

Now, if you are going to ask if it is possible to know everything that the Church teaches, it is and it is not. It would be difficult to know ALL the saints, ALL the Canon Laws, and ALL the Theology. However, is it easy to know the basic stuff that you MUST beleive to be Catholic.
 
The term heretic, while having acquired a bit of emotional baggage, is a technical term meaning something specific. Even if we don’t use the term “heretic” all Protestant/Evangelical/etc. Christians would agree that the meaning of the term applies to them (they deny some dogma of the Catholic faith–otherwise, they would be Catholic).

Now, because it has some of that emotional baggage, it is used only for those formal and obstinate heretics, and not “heretics” born and raised into their communities who should not be rashly blamed for their errors.

The whore of Babylon is something different altogether–it is a specific entity with a specific identity. Even from the perspective of non-Catholics, it cannot be reasonably identified as the Catholic Church.
 
reteeks21 said:
Just curious but what exactly is the difference between one group calling the other such names? I hate it when either group does this, but it seems acceptable for some here to inform us protestants we are heretics who are not part of a true Christian church. Can the saying “I hate it when they do that” not be said by both parties? Many Catholics here hate it when the “whore” idea is thrown around-and rightfully so!-and they want an apology. Can we Protestants not be afforded that same grace by some of the Catholics here that tell us we are heretics and false Christians?

I mean this thread in the sincerest of ways. I do not want to start a polyemic, and I certainly do not want anyone accusing me mixed motives. I think by the other threads I have started that it is obvious that I do not have ill intentions. Thanks ahead of time.
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I haven’t seen a Protestant play the “Whore Card” in a year or so, but I don’t read every thread.

Do you have an example?
 
Steadfast said:
I haven’t seen a Protestant play the “Whore Card” in a year or so, but I don’t read every thread.

Do you have an example?
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Actually, no. Word is passed around a lot that it happens on here, and I am sure it does, but I have never heard it. I do hear the heretic thing often, though.
 
It is not that common, unless the specific charge is discussed, or the doctrine as in the case of the SDA. However, the charge that the Church is evil is thrown about some on here.

I hate to say it, but you are more likely to see Protestants called heretics than Catholics called the Whore of Babylon.
 
Hi reteeks21,

First, a little note on “Whore of Babylon” vs. “Heretics!”. I think it would be better to compare Catholics calling Protestants “heretics” vs. Protestants calling Catholics “heretics”. “Whore of Babylon” is a whole different ball-park.
reteeks21 said:
Just curious but what exactly is the difference between one group calling the other such names? I hate it when either group does this, but it seems acceptable for some here to inform us protestants we are heretics who are not part of a true Christian church. Can the saying “I hate it when they do that” not be said by both parties? Many Catholics here hate it when the “whore” idea is thrown around-and rightfully so!-and they want an apology. Can we Protestants not be afforded that same grace by some of the Catholics here that tell us we are heretics and false Christians?

I mean this thread in the sincerest of ways. I do not want to start a polyemic, and I certainly do not want anyone accusing me mixed motives. I think by the other threads I have started that it is obvious that I do not have ill intentions. Thanks ahead of time.
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If I’ve learned anything in my years on discussion forums, it’s that there aren’t a lot of restrictions to what people can say on the internet.

On the other hand, just because something’s posted on the internet doesn’t mean that you have to read it. If I see that a certain thread is all about bashing Protestants, or bashing Catholics, or bashing left-handed vegetarians, then I just move on to the next thread.
 
ralphinal said:
It is not that common, unless the specific charge is discussed, or the doctrine as in the case of the SDA. However, the charge that the Church is evil is thrown about some on here.

I hate to say it, but you are more likely to see Protestants called heretics than Catholics called the Whore of Babylon.
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SO Glad a Catholic said that!
 
Steadfast said:
I hate to say it, but you are more likely to see Protestants called heretics than Catholics called the Whore of Babylon.
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Oh, I quite agree with Ralphinal’s statement (assuming, of course, that we’re just talking about what happens on CAF; the rest of the internet is a whole other story). I would go so far as to say that most Protestants on CAF are pretty well-behaved (even though I disagree of course with a lot of their ideas). Anyone else notice that?
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Steadfast said:
SO Glad a Catholic said that!
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Some of the same ones that call you a heretic at times call me a heretic lover.

You and I have disagreed. I have no issue saying that what you beleive is, in some cases, heretical to me. I would have issue with you being called a heretic, with all of the underlying things that carries with it.

You are a Christian, trying to live the Christian life as you see it. This is not exactly the way I see it, but I cannot begrudge you your cross.
 
Peter_J said:
Oh, I quite agree with Ralphinal’s statement (assuming, of course, that we’re just talking about what happens on CAF; the rest of the internet is a whole other story). I would go so far as to say that most Protestants on CAF are pretty well-behaved (even though I disagree of course with a lot of their ideas). Anyone else notice that?
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Most of them are. I would also add that we have quite a collection of intellegent Protestants. They are very able to discuss issues and extremely well-read. It does make it easier to discuss things.
 
Genesis315 said:
Even if we don’t use the term “heretic” all Protestant/Evangelical/etc. Christians would agree that the meaning of the term applies to them
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When I read statements like this, my first instinct is to roll my eyes.

However, I do so happen to remember this curious post by sandusky, just a couple weeks ago:
sandusky said:
Sandusky,
Which scriptures are we talking about? As you undoubtedly know, the Catholic Church defined the 73 books of the bible in 397AD. Martin Luther dropped 7 books from his bible because they didn’t agree with his view on Purgatory, Particularly 2Maccabees.
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So perhaps Genesis315’s post is in the same vein: I mean, if sandusky believes that the Council of Trent infallibly defined something that he disagrees with, then conceivably sandusky might also believe that Protestants (including himself) are heretics. (I’m assuming sandusky is reading this thread. I don’t mean to talk about him behind his back.)
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I don’t think its right for either to call the other names. Protestants & Catholics are family in God. We are both God’s children…
We shouldn’t be fighting or calling each other names.
Just my opinion.
 
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