Whore of Babylon

  • Thread starter Thread starter cradlecathlic26
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cradlecathlic26

Guest
I heard a serman from a FBC preacher screaming that the Catholic Church was in deed the whore of babylon and had explainations such as…
**1. The mother – Revelation 17:1-6

A Great whore – verses 1-2
  • She sits upon many waters – vs. 15
  • She commits fornication with the kings of the earth
  • The inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication

    A woman riding a beast – verse 3
  • She sits upon a scarlet colored beast

    A mother of harlots – verses 4-5
  • She is arrayed in purple and scarlet color…
  • She is decked out with gold and precious stones, and pearls…
  • She has a golden cup in her hand (it’s full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication)…
    Who is this woman?
    Rev. 2:20 calls her Jezebel. She is presented as a false system of religion. Judges 17-18 and 1 Kings 16-18 describe her as having black-robed priests called A father @ who use idols as aids in worship…
    **
Many others too, but what do we believe as Catholics that the Whore of Babylon is? And how do i defend these statements?
 
This might answer some of your questions:

Hunting the Whore of Babylon
The Whore of Babylon

The first article presents nine anti-Catholic arguments for why the Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon” and then soundly refutes them. The second is an in depth discussion of how the “whore” cannot possibly be the Catholic Church

I don’t think there is an official Catholic position on exactly who the “Whore of Babylon” is. Many Catholic Scripture Scholars believe it might refer to the Roman Empire of the day.
 
This is a species of what someone on these forums called the game of pin-the-tail-on-the-antichrist. It’s like JFK conspiracies. It was the mafia, it was the CIA, it was the commies…and on and on and on and on…

Treat this the same way you would treat pronouncements form the Raelians or the Montana Militia.
 
The Bible identifies the Whore of Babylon as the entity which killed the “Apostles,” (Rev. 18:20). “Apostles” were select First Century Christians who saw the Resurrected Christ (1 Cor 15:7), the last of whom was St. Paul (1 Cor 15:8). The Apostles were martyred by the pagan Roman Empire.

Incidentally, most anti-Catholics maintain that the Catholic Church didn’t exist in the First Century, thereby arguing themselves into a corner whereby the Catholic Church could not possibly have been the Whore of Babylon. Oops.
 
so the Roman Empire was Pagan? Isnt that where we come from? Or is there a difference between the roman empire and the Roman Catholic church?
 
so the Roman Empire was Pagan? Isnt that where we come from? Or is there a difference between the roman empire and the Roman Catholic church?
Most definitely there is a difference! The Roman Empire came to power before Jesus was born. It was initially pagan (as Jesus had not been born yet). In the first few centuries after Christ, there were many persecutions of the Church by the Roman Empire. One such outbreak was around 65-70 AD with the emperor Nero. This is the persecution under which Peter and Paul were both martyred. Only centuries later (in the 300s) was Christianity first leagalized and, eventually, it became the dominant religion of the Roman empire. Of course, the Roman Empire eventually crumbled and no longer exists today. The Catholic Church is often referred to as the Roman Catholic Church not because it came from the Roman Empire but only because the Bishop of Rome is the head of the Church.
 
Thanks, make sense now! Cant you tell how much i know about my church history!:o
 
Thanks, make sense now! Cant you tell how much i know about my church history!:o
A great suggestion would be to attend RCIA classes. I wish all Catholics could attend them every 5-10 years.

But sadly, you are in the norm when in comes to Church history.
 
Funny you say, me and my husband have been going to RCIA classes for the past couple months and are learning alot, they just have not covered this subject yet.
 
Funny you say, me and my husband have been going to RCIA classes for the past couple months and are learning alot, they just have not covered this subject yet.
They will cover some of history in the RCIA Classes, but not necessarily the Whore of Babylon, unless someone specifically asks the question.
 
Funny you say, me and my husband have been going to RCIA classes for the past couple months and are learning alot, they just have not covered this subject yet.
I think Church History is one of the most overlooked area when it comes to catechesis. Most RCIA classes don’t go into it as they have enough material to cover just in regards to the Church’s teaching on the Creed, the Sacraments, Morality, and Prayer. Church History tends to take a back seat.

I started a thread a while back with some online Church History resources, if you’re interested:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=195546

A good book would be the Didache series textbook: The History of the Church. It is over 800 pages long and is quite comprehensive. It has lots of cool pictures, too. 🙂
 
“The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits.” First of all, no Pope has ever lived or had his “seat” (cathedra or cathedral) on any of the seven hills of Rome. These hills are small hillocks (Capitoline, Palatine, Esquiline, Aventine and three lesser “bumps” in central Rome) where the religion and government of pagan Rome was situated.

Why the cryptic name Babylon? First, the historical Babylon was the pagan power which persecuted the People of God, the Jews, between 610 and 538 BC, destroying the Temple and dispersing the people. The Romans inherited that mantle of infamy when they destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, and more importantly persecuted the new People of God, the Church. Thus, St. Peter, writing from Rome refers to as “Babylon” (1 Pt. 5:13) - a name any Jew or Christian familiar with the Old Testament would know.
How does this relate to the Antichrist? The future Antichrist will be a world-wide power, essentially pagan, which will persecute the Catholic Church (and orthodox Christians in general) everywhere, as the Babylonians persecuted the Jews and 1st century Rome the Church. These are biblical types! The Babylon of John’s day, Rome, stands for the kingdom of the future Antichrist and is no more likely to be situated in Italy than Rome needed to be situated in Babylonia (modern Iraq). John was informing his readers of these prophetic types by drawing their attention to the contemporary fulfillment they found in pagan Rome. The Antichrist will come out of the Christian world (Greco-Roman civilization) to be sure (1 John 2:19), but America is as much an inheritor of that civilization as Europe and just as likely to be the source of the Antichrist.

Finally, after distorting the text and history to read what they want into the Bible, and thereby obtaining God’s “blessing” on their hatred of the Catholic Church, some “Christians” ignore the only texts of Scripture which tells us about the religious leanings of the Antichrist. The Catholic faith being a religion you would think they would see what it teaches on the only criteria the Bible actually gives about the Antichrist. In St. John’s letters (1 John 4, 2 John 1), he tells us that the spirit of the Antichrist denies the Incarnation (the Son of God becoming man) and thereby also the Trinity (the Father and the Spirit, too). This is the spirit of the Antichrist. There is not a single text in 2000 years, including the new Catechism of the Catholic Church, where the Catholic Church, her popes, her bishops, her official teachings, her saints, or her acknowledged ecclesiastical authors, deny the Word-made-flesh or the Blessed Trinity. Instead, all of Christianity owes the preservation of these Truths to the Catholic Church, whose great Councils formulated them and whose saints and popes have defended them to this day, often at the cost of martyrdom. John Paul II, has written three great encyclical (circular) letters on the Trinity, one for each Divine Person, and he has without a doubt preached Jesus Christ to more people than any other person in human history. The Catholic Church does not have the spirit of the Antichrist but of God, since no one without the Spirit can say “Jesus is Lord” (1 Cor. 12:3), something the Church and Catholics always have done and continue to do!
ewtn.com/expert/answers/whore_of_babylon.htm
 
One inclines to reply to someone who accuses the Church of being said strumpet, “No, John was talking about your mom.”

But I fear that would be impolitic.😃

I would say the Whore of Babylon is any and all who sell out their religion for worldly gain.

Weird how “whore” is the exact same analogy in every language.

Even in Sumerian, I believe, despite having sacred prostitution.
 
I heard a serman from a FBC preacher screaming that the Catholic Church was in deed the whore of babylon and had explainations such as…
**1. The mother – Revelation 17:1-6 **
**• **
**A Great whore – verses 1-2 **

**- She sits upon many waters – vs. 15 **
**- She commits fornication with the kings of the earth **
**- The inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication **
**• **
**A woman riding a beast – verse 3 **

**- She sits upon a scarlet colored beast **
**• **
**A mother of harlots – verses 4-5 **

**- She is arrayed in purple and scarlet color… **
**- She is decked out with gold and precious stones, and pearls… **
**- She has a golden cup in her hand (it’s full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication)… **
**Who is this woman? **
**Rev. 2:20 calls her Jezebel. **
## Only if BtG is referred to in Rev. 2.20. It needs to be shown that they are the same. Simply to assert they are the same is not good enough. **
She is presented as a false system of religion. Judges 17-18 and 1 Kings 16-18 describe her as having black-robed priests called A father @ who use idols as aids in worship…
##** Calling priests “father” proves nothing - respectful forms of address such as that are too commonly used to be evidence of any one religion. The Book of Common Prayer (which is Anglican & Protestant) refers to the “ghostly (= spiritual) father” of a Christian in spiritual distress.

Nothing brings BtG into connection with the priest in Judges - except the ingenuity of the preacher & the need to condemn Catholicism. Tormenting the Bible to make it prove any old fantasy one’s heart needs to be true, is not responsible or intelligent interpretation.

As to black robes - that doesn’t sound like the usual Protestant BtG-hunting; most such hunters emphasise the red or scarlet robes of those Babylonian Papists. At most, the passage could be read as a condemnation of the Benedictines & Dominicans. 🙂

BTW, did you know that kilts & sporrans & Scotch whisky were in the Bible ? It’s true - every word of it. Whisky means “water of life”; which is mentioned in Revelation. 🙂
Many others too, but what do we believe as Catholics that the Whore of Babylon is? And how do i defend these statements?

This kind of thing is the Fundamentalist equivalent of crossword-solving, fortune-telling, reading a whodunnit, & playing solitaire, all rolled into one. There’s nothing in it. It’s a waste of time. Instead of Madame Zaza inspecting the tarot cards to read her clients’ fortunes, one has Pastor Billy-Bob inspecting Daniel 11 & Rev. 13 to find out which public figure is the current son of satan. Madame Zaza does at least not mistake her daftness for a Divine message, nor does she preach a message of hatred, suspicion, superstition & alarm.​

I would not waste time worrying about it.

As to Revelation, it was not written as a prophecy of the Church in the future: what possible interest could the 16th century Reformation or the Papal court have for Christians in the seven Churches in the first century ? The book was written for them, & it would have been totally meaningless if it had been about people, institutions, temptations & troubles hundreds of years in the future, & hundreds of miles away. It’s as daft as imagining that the works of St.Paul would be a complete riddle to every generation except that born in 3300 AD.

Besides, the BtG-hunters always assume that the Bad Person or Bad Thing they know about is the one God intends. This is a form of vanity - “I’m so important that the end won’t happen in my absence”. Why not ? There were nasty & repulsive & bloodthirsty characters in the ancient past, & there will very likely be many more to come, when we are long forgotten 🙂 There is no reason, except one’s own very limited awareness of events, to identify the Pope, or Saddam Hussein, or anyone else in one’s own time as the Antichrist or anything similar.

Today’s unimaginably bloody tyrant can always be out-done - Popes are unlikely to have killed as many as Stalin managed to dispose of; his technology was better. So the identification of the AC by so much of Protestantism since the 1540s looks a bit out of date.
 
Popes are unlikely to have killed as many as Stalin managed to dispose of; his technology was better.
I think you may well win some kind of prize for understatement here. That’s a bit like saying, “A match is not as hot as the surface of a Wolf-Rayet star.”

I would say that the book is for the whole Church, forever: this is what you’re gonna go through, forever, kind of a thing.
 
“The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits.” First of all, no Pope has ever lived or had his “seat” (cathedra or cathedral) on any of the seven hills of Rome. These hills are small hillocks (Capitoline, Palatine, Esquiline, Aventine and three lesser “bumps” in central Rome) where the religion and government of pagan Rome was situated.
First off St. Peters is located on the Vatican Hills (of course the hill was flatened to make way for the Basilica… so meh. But that is less of the point. The Apocalypse of John was written to a Jewish Christian audience origionally. So Any origional reader would know that the City of Seven Hills is Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the city of seven hills. The False religion at the end of time will latch on to Jerusalem because it is already Sacred to about half the world, and to mock God satan will try and “take” the city from God.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top