Whore of Babylon

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Nero’s Rome, conceived as the model of all states that will ever persecute the Church.

666 written in Hebrew numerical notation spells “Kaesar Neron”–Greek for Caesar Nero.

“And the barbarians from the ends of the earth came, and beheld the highest of earthly places, and read the inscription ‘Divus Caesar’–and looked up and saw a statue without a head.”
–G. K. Chesterton
 
Jerry-Jet said:
It is Jerusalem. Protestants wrongly believe it is Rome.
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I’m a Catholic, thanks, but now that I think of it, you might be right. Babylon refers to Rome (Jewish literary device; “Babylon” is “the big pagan city,” see?), so the “Whore of Babylon” might be Jerusalem, or anyone else seen as having sold out to the Power of the world.

I think Whore of Babylon might have referred to Jerusalem, in reference to the Neronian persecution (which is what the Apocalypse is a polemic against), but also to any of the once-holy who’ve sold out. It’s also, after all, a prophetic warning about all the many persecutions to come.
 
Like with many parts of Scripture, there can be multiple meanings. I think the whore is no exception.

for, of course, on one level, it was Jerusalem, who failed to recognize the coming of Her Redeemer. They became “unfaithful” when the fullness of God was presented to them.

But also, pagan Rome is clearly another applicable Layer, for in the Apostolic times, the Roman Empire and its heathen were wealthy and pompous, who did shed the blood of the apostles and martyrs. And lo, that great empire of paganism came crashing down (“Fallen, Fallen is Babylon the Great!”) and in its place rose up the true Woman, the People of God, the Roman Catholic CHURCH.

But in a sense, this “fallen, fallen” had already occurred many times in the OT history: great stages of sin were brought down and in their place rose up Redemption: the sin of Noah’s Day fell through the Flood. The attempt at materialistic dominion at Babel came crashing down through the confounding of Languages. The Great Egypt “fell” through the Exodus.

And there is truly a modern sense in which the whore is fulfilled: the apostate secular societies of Europe and its children, which possess great materialistic wealth, and that used to be primarily Christian, are now in “whoredom” for they have turned from God toward the idols of immorality (fornicaiton, contraception, divorce), murder (abortion, euthanasia), and thefts (general materialism) (see Rev. 9:20-21). and if they do not repent, the Catholic mystics prophesy in general the Minor Chastisement, in which they will suffer an apocalyptic cataclysm because of their sins, and all these materialistic decandences will fall and laid to waste, and, we hope, replaced by a new humanity that embraces the truth of the Church.

anyway, that’s my diatribe; so I’d say it’s all of the above, not either or.
 
On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I think it’s pagan Rome. On Teusdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, I think it’s apostate Jerusalem.

On Sundays, I think it’s the Episcopal Church in America.

Actually, after reading the back cover of John Shelby Spong’s latest book, I’m starting to think it’s the Episcopal Church on weekday evenings as well.
 
Andruschak said:
I couldn’t care less. I have more important things to worry about, such as helping other alcoholics get sober and stay sober. :yawn:
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oh, but of course, the apoc is nothing but useless trash. It has no legitimate value, except to be interpreted as liberal preterism.

Yeah, whatever.
 
spauline said:
oh, but of course, the apoc is nothing but useless trash. It has no legitimate value, except to be interpreted as liberal preterism.

Yeah, whatever.
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Curious mind wants to know just what “liberal preterism” is, and if it is contagious:confused:
 
Andruschak said:
Curious mind wants to know just what “liberal preterism” is, and if it is contagious:confused:
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well, liberal preterism is the view that the only real meaning of the Apoc that was intended by God (if they believe in God) is that the book was written EXCLUSIVELY for the Early Church, and the struggles it faced with pagan Rome, and also the events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

in this view, any other meanings suggested, of whatever layers, are regarded as, at best, “highly speculative” and at worse,“ludicrously sensational”. Hence, in this view, the Church will NEVER understand the full meaning of Church history, much less the whole of salvation history. In this view, the book is reduced to NOTHING more than coded comfort.

It is contagious, especially in the Western Catholic Church. Most of the popular Catholic authors who write on the book, while not necessarily saying the book has no other meanings, they none the less simply focus on interpreting it in this context, and do not attempt to move very far beyond the Early Church. Hence, no attempt is made to even begin investigating an application that would apply the text to the spiritual ages that the Church has passed through since the Early Church, much less to consider the deeper questions of what lies ahead in a spiritual sense for humanity, and how to understand the meaning of these things with respective to the totality of Divine Revelation in Catholicism.

Does that answer your question?

Sorry if I’m being fanatical, but I’m just really getting sick of people who think the apoc is completely irrelevant to Catholic doctrine.
🙂
 
spauline said:
Sorry if I’m being fanatical, but I’m just really getting sick of people who think the apoc is completely irrelevant to Catholic doctrine.
🙂
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Thank you. I’ve learned something new today. I will admit to regarding Revelations as mostly irrelevant during my 55 years as a wishy-washy Protestant and/or UU, However, once I am confirmed, I still doubt if Revelations will be a meaningful part of my Spirituality. Not intended to be insulting or arguementive, that is just my mind-set at the moment. It might change later.

But in any case, thank you for the information
 
Andruschak said:
Thank you. I’ve learned something new today. I will admit to regarding Revelations as mostly irrelevant during my 55 years as a wishy-washy Protestant and/or UU, However, once I am confirmed, I still doubt if Revelations will be a meaningful part of my Spirituality. Not intended to be insulting or arguementive, that is just my mind-set at the moment. It might change later.

But in any case, thank you for the information
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hey, no problem, you are very welcome. and, hey, we are all on a journey, at different levels and diffferent experiences. Every human being is an irrepeatable priceless creature whose journey with God, experiences, and order of questions and understanding develops like no other. I pray that God bless you where you are at, and PTL, you are in RCIA!! 👍
Already, I say, welcome home! 🙂 😃

In Her Love,
scott
 
the Roman Empire and its heathen were wealthy and pompous, who did shed the blood of the apostles and martyrs. And lo, that great empire of paganism came crashing down (“Fallen, Fallen is Babylon the Great!”) and in its place rose up the true Woman, the People of God, the Roman Catholic CHURCH.
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Is my thoughts too!

Earlier I said Rome about 67-70. I recall the story above now, it was something I came across many years ago and had forgotten the jist.

Thaks for reminding me 👍
 
Sixtus said:
Is my thoughts too!

Earlier I said Rome about 67-70. I recall the story above now, it was something I came across many years ago and had forgotten the jist.

Thaks for reminding me 👍
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no problem!

God Bless!
scott
 
Asbestos_Mango said:
On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I think it’s pagan Rome. On Teusdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, I think it’s apostate Jerusalem.

On Sundays, I think it’s the Episcopal Church in America.

Actually, after reading the back cover of John Shelby Spong’s latest book, I’m starting to think it’s the Episcopal Church on weekday evenings as well.
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:rotfl:

Poor Bishop Spong. He is so confused.
 
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