whos a saint?

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I was talking to my aunt about religion and out of nowhere she starts going on about how she hates the fact that the Catholic Church won’t acnowledge that everyone who proclaims that Jesus is Christ (and so on) is a Saint, your a saint I’m a saint and the like. What should I tell her?
 
Saint are those souls who have a beatific vision of God in Heaven. The Catholic Church as recognized several hundred such souls because of physical proof after the person in question has passed on; however, we also know that all those who die in God’s favor and are in Heaven are also saints…whether the Church as recognized them or not. Catholics don’t make saints…we simply recognize those we have a high degree of confidence are indeed with our Lord in Heaven.

Just accepting Christ doesn’t make you a saint on earth.
 
Montie Claunch:
I was talking to my aunt about religion and out of nowhere she starts going on about how she hates the fact that the Catholic Church won’t acnowledge that everyone who proclaims that Jesus is Christ (and so on) is a Saint, your a saint I’m a saint and the like. What should I tell her?
Well, first you have to convince her of the existence of purgatory. Without purgatory most of us would be going to hell. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God.

Secondly, you have to convince her that sin creates disorder in the order of creation. We have created disorder in ourselves in our choosing to sin. We cannot enter into God’s presence in a disordered fashion. It is possible for God to re-order us and purify us to enter into his presence because of our trials and tribulations here on Earth.

When you convince her that some people undergo this purification in this life, perhaps then you will begin to convince her that there is such a person as a saint who turns from their fallen state and seeks extraordinary measures to do the will of God in their lives.

And, since we are in exile and are still capable of sin, we have not perfectly been re-ordered. This perfect re-ordering and preparation to enter into the presence of God comes when we breathe our last. No one who enters the Beatific Vision will ever sin again – they have perfectly given their free will to God. Hence, no one is a saint until they are dead. Seeing God as He is face-to-face is not a possibility for our Earthly bodies.
 
Montie Claunch:
I was talking to my aunt about religion and out of nowhere she starts going on about how she hates the fact that the Catholic Church won’t acnowledge that everyone who proclaims that Jesus is Christ (and so on) is a Saint, your a saint I’m a saint and the like. What should I tell her?
She’s right. We are all saints. What she is talking about are canonized Saints. It’s a title given to people we know are in Heaven. Your aunt’s not in Heaven yet is she? So how can she be a canonized saint?

It might be better for her if you explain canonized saints as “ancients.”

Check out Revelation 5:8. Here, the ancients are offering up to Jesus the prayers of the saints. In this passage, “saints” means us and “ancients” would be what we call canonized saints.

It’s just a matter of terminology, not a knock on anyone.
 
Montie Claunch:
I was talking to my aunt about religion and out of nowhere she starts going on about how she hates the fact that the Catholic Church won’t acnowledge that everyone who proclaims that Jesus is Christ (and so on) is a Saint, your a saint I’m a saint and the like. What should I tell her?
Hmmm… Ask her if Satan believes that Jesus was the Christ. If that were all there were to becoming a saint, then Satan would be canonized because he KNOWS Jesus to be the Son of God. Being a saint simply means that the Church recognizes that a person is in Heaven (not Purgatory or Hell).

Montie, I have seen several of your posts. They all start by saying, “my aunt says…” or “I met a person at a bookstore that says…” Then, there is no more questions or comments by you concerning the original post despite how many people respond. My question is, what does Montie think? If you are truly interested in learning about Catholism, why not enroll yourself in RCIA. Of course I would like to see you stay here and post both questions and comments, but I think that you might get more out of an RCIA class.
 
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Tietjen:
Montie, I have seen several of your posts. They all start by saying, “my aunt says…” or “I met a person at a bookstore that says…” Then, there is no more questions or comments by you concerning the original post despite how many people respond. My question is, what does Montie think? If you are truly interested in learning about Catholism, why not enroll yourself in RCIA. Of course I would like to see you stay here and post both questions and comments, but I think that you might get more out of an RCIA class.
Not as commentary on your commentary or that which sparked it, there is something of note here.

Once I really started studying the scriptures (esp NT) and philosophy and religion in earnest a few years ago, I noticed something troubling when I try to talk to many Catholics.

When I ask them what they think, they refer back to what some saint said or what the Church says. They simply have no personal opinions or are afraid to share them. My concern is that we have made people this way by (evil teachers of course mostly) asking children what they think about something, then putting them down if their “thinking” isn’t the right way. Therefore, the real question they learn to hear is not “what do you think” but “what do you think you’re expected to say in this situation?” This is yet another rant I have about the lemming-ization of members of society.

The words “authority” is related to “author.” If I say something and take responsibility, them I am the “author” of that statement and have authority on it. Today most people think that to speak with “authority” you must have credible references. Therefore academics think the more references the better, so we never really find out what people actually think except to the extent they can mix and match old references.

Our reference libraries then become books about books, each of which is about other books.

To me, it’s interesting to hear what the Church says, but so many of us are trained our whole lives never to reveal personal ideas when asked to do so, it’s nearly an impossible expectation to get people’s personal opinion on matters religious.

It’s like people are all afraid to say what they think lest they be thought of as wrong or foolish, and I can’t say I blame them. Many times I’ve told people what I think, and by the way they responded I can tell they really didn’t want to know. This raises the question, “why do you ask what I think if you didn’t want to hear it,” while the best I can figure is the person only wants to know what I think if it already fits into their own limits of acceptability. In school, I finally, after many years of getting into trouble and not knowing why, realized that many elementary school teachers talk in code. When they say, “what do you think” they really mean “is your thinking coming around to the right direction yet?”

In the case at hand, I claim no knowledge but just found it a place to jump in and air one of my very favorite peeves. 😃

Maybe more of us would be saints if we learned more what was in our heart without having conflicting voices in our head always battling to tell us what is the Right Thing based on everyone else’s opinions. If we conform our hearts and minds to Christ the way the Bible tells us to, then we might just find that we “automatically” begin to desire things that honor God. It’s hard to get to that point when we’re all so worried about breaking rules we may never have heard of that we don’t even hear the Spirit’s voice within us.

Then again some of us seem to think the Spirit is in us, but really doesn’t speak to anybody but the pope or certain saints, so we had better not trust anything that smacks of internal spiritual movements or intuition, when in fact I believe it is these things that when properly trained are an important component of being a saint. A submit that a saint does not do a kind act so much because of a technical calculation that it’s the right thing, but because the laws of love are written in his/her heart.

Alan
 
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