Who's In Heaven? How do you know?

[murphdog261]

My father, who is evangelical, and I had a conversation about prayers of intercession to those in Heaven. I told him that since prayers of the righteous are very good, it is best to ask for intercession of those who are in Heaven.

My dad is perfectly okay with having people on earth pray for him, and he has made the distinction between prayers of righteous people being better than prayers of less righteous people.

He just threw me a curve ball when he asked me “Well, how you do you know they are in Heaven?”

It seemed so simple to me, why the Blessed Virgin Mary, or the 12 Apostles, or Paul would be in Heaven, but I found no way of 100 % completely assuring him that these people are in Heaven, without refering to some authority of the Catholic Church.

Can anyone help me out?

Thanks and God Bless

 

[MichiganTrumbul]

Greetings, Murphdog:

The simple answer is, you do not know.

Catholic teaching holds that a person can know of his own salvation ONLY if God grants him a special revelation. Let’s take a look at the Council of Trent:

If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation, let him be anathema.
Council of Trent, Session 6, Canon 16

So, during life on earth, one can only know about one’s own salvation if God gives him a special revelation.

I would say that the same logic holds for knowing that someone else is saved. It takes a special revelation, such as is given to a pope when he canonizes a saint. This is how we know that Mary, the Apostles (well, 11 of them anyway), the evangelists, Joan of Arc, Therese of Lisieux, and so on are in heaven.

We know only if God wants us to know, and that for His reasons alone.

That’s the simple answer.

MT

 

[PhilotheaZ]

There is some scriptural basis for believing that certain individuals are in heaven.

The Old Testament Book of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Chapters 44–50, gives us firm reason to believe that the Old Testament prophets and patriarchs are in heaven. (Your father may or may not have a problem with basing an argument on this book, since Sirach is one of the books of the Bible which some Protestants do not recognize.)

Revelation 6:9–11 gives us reason to believe that anyone martyred for their faith is in heaven:

[9] When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne;
[10] they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”
[11] Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

As for those who are not martyrs, the Church goes through an intense examination of the lives of anyone proposed for canonization, looking for testimony and evidence of holiness of life and heroic virtue. Furthermore, prior to canonizaton there must be documented evidence (e.g., from medical experts) that one or more miracles have been worked by God due to the prayerful intercession of the proposed saint (one miracle for a martyr, two for someone who is not a martyr).

It is difficult sometimes to prove things “without referring to some authority of the Catholic Church.” But why should we have to do so? After all, Christ did give the Church broad-reaching authority, as we can see in Matthew 16:18–19:

[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
[19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Of course, there are many, many saints who are in heaven but who are not officially recognized (canonized) by the Church. We can still ask for their intercession, and even for the intercession of our deceased brothers and sisters in Christ who are undergoing purification (Purgatory) prior to their entry into heaven. After all, we are bound to pray for each other, and even death does not separate us from each other, as we read in Romans 8:38–39:

[38] For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
[39] nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[murphdog261]

Philo, you actually just quoted my favorite verse in Romans.

And the feedback I have gotten has been very helpful and encouraging. My father, as respectful as he is towards the Catholic Church, will sometimes argue with me for the sake of arguing

My next step will be to speak to him again, and mention the main points above, and speak to him about purgatory as well, since his last comment to me was “In fact, you could be praying to Demons!”

But I’m almost certain he was arguing with me as a dad and son do, because he tolerates and respects me being Catholic. (On a side note, he even believes in Real Presence!)

Thanks again to all
and God Bless

-Murph