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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
who’s prayer is more powerful?
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hamba2han
Guest
I believe that the most heartfelt and true prayer, in every sense of the word, would be the manner in which how all the Prophets (peace be upon them all) themselves prayed to their Lord.
Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,"
Genesis 17:17 “Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?”
Exodus 34:8 “And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.”
Numbers 16:20-22 “And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?”
Joshua 5:14 “And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?”
Ezekiel 9:8 “And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?”
2 Chronicles 20:18 “And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD.”
Ezekiel 11:13 “And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?”
Matthew 17:6 “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.”
Matthew 26:39 “And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
http://www.islamicvoice.com/may.2003/images/Sajda.jpg
And if the Prophets themselves, together with Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples, prayed in such a fashion, then this surely means that any other form of prayer would surely be of a very much lower order in the eyes of the One who they were praying to.
Genesis 17:3 "And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,"
Genesis 17:17 “Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?”
Exodus 34:8 “And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.”
Numbers 16:20-22 “And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?”
Joshua 5:14 “And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?”
Ezekiel 9:8 “And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?”
2 Chronicles 20:18 “And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with his face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD.”
Ezekiel 11:13 “And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?”
Matthew 17:6 “And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.”
Matthew 26:39 “And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
http://www.islamicvoice.com/may.2003/images/Sajda.jpg
And if the Prophets themselves, together with Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples, prayed in such a fashion, then this surely means that any other form of prayer would surely be of a very much lower order in the eyes of the One who they were praying to.
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b_justb
Guest
None of the above. It isn’t the power of the petitioner; it’s the power of the granter.
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water
Guest
It is all up to God to grant you whichever ways He wishes. If He wants to honor Him by honoring His Mother, then it will happen that way. If He wants to choose different way, He will have one.
If you ask for a nice bowl of Vietnamese noodle (or Pho), who do you think you should go to?
PS: lunch time - it makes me think of food.
If you ask for a nice bowl of Vietnamese noodle (or Pho), who do you think you should go to?
- Jesus
- Mary
- or the chef in a Vietnamese restaurant.
PS: lunch time - it makes me think of food.
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katy_kt
Guest
When I was a child, I was told that the prayers of children reaches God faster than those of adults
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algebra
Guest
Surely you cannot imagine that the outward manner of prayer determines that validity of prayer.
When one falls down face to the ground, it is grovelling before G_d.
And grovelling is an intention, conveying an acknowledgement of insignificance.
Without the intention, the action is meaningless. I would go so far as to say it is disrespectful.
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cathgal
Guest
When one prays, one is pleading God.
Whom do Jesus and the Holy Spirit pray to?
Whom do Jesus and the Holy Spirit pray to?
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algebra
Guest
I thought catholics believed that jesus and G_D are one?
Cathgirl, what do you mean who do they pray to?
Cathgirl, what do you mean who do they pray to?
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Both the Holy Spirit and Jesus would be praying to God the Father — it is their role in the godhead. 
Romans 8
26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.
34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Hebrews 4
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,[e] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Based on Rev 6:10 it is clear that the saints in heaven do not always pray according to God’s will.
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and **avenge our blood **on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Romans 8
26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.
34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Hebrews 4
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens,[e] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Based on Rev 6:10 it is clear that the saints in heaven do not always pray according to God’s will.
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and **avenge our blood **on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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Publisher
Guest
Now this is one of the strangest questions I have read on this forum. As though the Maker of the universe, the Alpha and Omega, the Great I AM Himself does not know our very needs. That the the love and conern of those who would intercede for us should have a “rating system” in the minds of those who would approach God is so strange…at least to me.
Before we even ask He knows what it is we need and He is quick to answer…that a saint or Mary would be able to “sway” the Soverign God of the Universe to “change His mind” is so difficult to grasp.
That one would seek to align oneself with “someone” who has His Ear more than anyone else is a foreign concept…at least to me…I am ignorant of such things about the workings of intercession to the Father it would seem.
Before we even ask He knows what it is we need and He is quick to answer…that a saint or Mary would be able to “sway” the Soverign God of the Universe to “change His mind” is so difficult to grasp.
That one would seek to align oneself with “someone” who has His Ear more than anyone else is a foreign concept…at least to me…I am ignorant of such things about the workings of intercession to the Father it would seem.
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Layman
Guest
My opinion: When you pray you are petitioning a great King. For your own sake, a humble posture is best.
I dare say the prayer of a saint is more heeded than a sinner’s, depending on what’s prayed for. If Saint Padre Pio prayed for you to get well from a disease, for example, you’d have a better chance, wouldn’t you?
I dare say the prayer of a saint is more heeded than a sinner’s, depending on what’s prayed for. If Saint Padre Pio prayed for you to get well from a disease, for example, you’d have a better chance, wouldn’t you?
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Publisher
Guest
Are we not children of the Great King? Jesus said something about a father giving his son a snake when he asked for fish or a stone when he asked for bread…that “someone” else has God’s Ear above and beyond that of a needful child…that the Father’s heart could be swayed by another child who intercedes because the “other child” is a favorite…is a foreign concept to me…and I think to most who do not share the “rating system of who’s got the most pull with God”.
To answer your last question in the above post…“No, I wouldn’t think so.”
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teancum79
Guest
who does one measure the power of a prayer offered by someone in particular a dead someone?
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Layman
Guest
As Catholics we believe in the importance of ritual, and the intercession of Saints.
I would be very happy indeed if a holy person, living or dead, were praying for me. It’s a matter of spiritual power.
My opinion: In the old days, a religious was respected if he could truly curse or bless. Having a PHD in theology wouldn’t cut much ice.
My opinion: Clasping your hands like a knight in prayer, kneeling and prostration get you in the right mindset. Such attitudes beat down your pride, the enemy of spiritual progress. This makes for more effective prayer.
My opinion: Faith alone won’t save you, nor memorising the Bible. Getting into Heaven is too important to be be left to what I call ‘mere intellectualisms’.
If you do all the the Catholic Church has traditionally recommended, then you can plead with Jesus at the moment of your death “I did all that You, Your Saints and Your priests asked of me, have mercy!”
“I read the Bible, had some nice thoughts, and believed” may not be enough. I’m not going to chance it.
I would be very happy indeed if a holy person, living or dead, were praying for me. It’s a matter of spiritual power.
My opinion: In the old days, a religious was respected if he could truly curse or bless. Having a PHD in theology wouldn’t cut much ice.
My opinion: Clasping your hands like a knight in prayer, kneeling and prostration get you in the right mindset. Such attitudes beat down your pride, the enemy of spiritual progress. This makes for more effective prayer.
My opinion: Faith alone won’t save you, nor memorising the Bible. Getting into Heaven is too important to be be left to what I call ‘mere intellectualisms’.
If you do all the the Catholic Church has traditionally recommended, then you can plead with Jesus at the moment of your death “I did all that You, Your Saints and Your priests asked of me, have mercy!”
“I read the Bible, had some nice thoughts, and believed” may not be enough. I’m not going to chance it.
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Swan
Guest
Very well said.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
All prayers lead to Jesus. They aren’t separated… Just as I ask a fellow Christian to pray for me, it is the same when I ask the saints or Mary to pray for me. All intecessionary prayers always end up with Jesus.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
The prayers offerred by the “dead” someones under the throne of God in Rev 6 ( posted already ) are contray to God’s will. We are told in Romans 8, that the Holy Spirit always prays according to God’s will.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Off Topic, feel free to start an new thread on that.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
II Cor 12
Paul asked for healing and God said NO. My point is, we may think what we are asking for is the best thing, when in fact it is not. We may be asking God for Chicken, when God wants us to have Beef instead.
P
Publisher
Guest
The original question would indicate that if someone else “higher in God’s favor” than myself asked God…he would say “Yes”…I have no problem with the Soverign God of the Universe saying “No” to me…but if He said “No” to me and then said “Yes” to another’s petition on my behalf on the same issue…then we have a different issue all together.
We may think we are asking for the best thing…but we allow God’s Spirit who “groans within us” to pray for our needs when we’re not sure how to pray…we should always pray as Jesus did…“Not my will, but Thine be done…” That is a faithful prayer IMO…to always bow to the Will of the Father…the One who knows us best and loves us most is not swayed by a “VP” of prayer when He has already determined the answer is “No.”
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