Who's words are final? Jesus' or Paul's?

[2ndGen]

If Jesus said the sky is red and Paul said the sky is blue, who’s words would you believe?

Being that we are indoctrinated to believe that the sky is blue, would you be willing to completely throw away that belief if Jesus said something different thatn what your conditioning taught you?

Would you be willing to go against the convention of your peers to take Jesus’ words for something?

 

[Yerusalyim]

It’s a nonsensical question. Paul wrote under the influence of the holy spirit. Nothing said by Paul and Christ are contradictory.

 

[2ndGen]

It’s a nonsensical question. Paul wrote under the influence of the holy spirit. Nothing said by Paul and Christ are contradictory.

A nonsensical question?

It’s a set up.

Now, along with offering your opinion on what type of question it is,
can you contribute an answer?

Don’t get me wrong, if that’s all you want to contribute, that’s fine,
but I was wondering if you had an opinion on the answer to the question.

 

[allischalmers]

Sometimes in the evening when the sun is setting in the west the easren sky is red. If that is when Jesus said the sky is red then I would believe him, However Jesus could not say the sky is red when it is not because Jesus can not lie.

 

[2ndGen]

Sometimes in the evening when the sun is setting in the west the easren sky is red. If that is when Jesus said the sky is red then I would believe him, However Jesus could not say the sky is red when it is not because Jesus can not lie.

So then if He through which all things were created told us the sky was indeed red,
you would still stick to “man’s” definition of what “red” is over submitting your understanding to Jesus’ words?

 

[allischalmers]

So then if He through which all things were created told us the sky was indeed red,
you would still stick to “man’s” definition of what “red” is over submitting your understanding to Jesus’ words?

For Jesus to say the sky is red He first would have to change all creation to make the sky red so He would not be lying

 

[rbarcia]

So then if He through which all things were created told us the sky was indeed red,
you would still stick to “man’s” definition of what “red” is over submitting your understanding to Jesus’ words?

If the Holy Spirit says through Paul there is one Mediator, Jesus, , and Rome says there is a Mediatrix. Which is right.

Bible:

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1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

**

Catechism

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969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”

**

 

[2ndGen]

For Jesus to say the sky is red He first would have to change all creation to make the sky red so He would not be lying

What makes you so sure that man’s definition of what red is, is more right than Jesus’ definition?

Isn’t Him just saying so enough to change “our” definitions of what red is?

 

[2ndGen]

If the Holy Spirit says through Paul there is one Mediator, Jesus, , and Rome says there is a Mediatrix. Which is right.

 

[rbarcia]

What makes you so sure that man’s definition of what red is, is more right than Jesus’ definition?

Isn’t Him just saying so enough to change “our” definitions of what red is?

Can you please tell me where and when Jesus calls the Sky Red? Where did Paul call the sky blue? If it is not there, then it is not relevant. Only truth is relevant.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one goes to the Father but through Him.

 

[2ndGen]

Can you please tell me where and when Jesus calls the Sky Red?

 

[2ndGen]

If the Holy Spirit says through Paul there is one Mediator, Jesus, , and Rome says there is a Mediatrix. Which is right.

Rome would be right because Paul belongs to The Church
(not The Church to Paul).

Remember, it is The Church that is what supports the truth.

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation

 

[heisenburg]

Anyone that helps anyone else along toward Christ is a co-mediatrix.

There is only ONE true mediator, but I can go before the lord and pray for someones soul. Thus, I am a co-mediator.

Also, you must be extremely careful when using “for there is only one mediator…” as ‘proof’ the catholic church is wrong.

If this line of logic were true, then it is also wrong for me to ask YOU to pray for me, as there is only one mediator. This is because I would be asking you to pray for me, becoming, in a sense, a mediator for me as well…

Scripture often talks about us praying for each other, James 5 even goes so far as to say anyone that brings someone out of their own sin has a multitude of sins covered. James 5 is talking about a co-mediator, or co-redeemer if you will…

The glory is still God’s, the work is still that of God, but we cooporated in that work he already started because we are suppose to ASSIST each other as scripture says.

In Christ

 

[2ndGen]

Anyone that helps anyone else along toward Christ is a co-mediatrix.

There is only ONE true mediator, but I can go before the lord and pray for someones soul. Thus, I am a co-mediator.

Also, you must be extremely careful when using “for there is only one mediator…” as ‘proof’ the catholic church is wrong.

If this line of logic were true, then it is also wrong for me to ask YOU to pray for me, as there is only one mediator. This is because I would be asking you to pray for me, becoming, in a sense, a mediator for me as well…

Scripture often talks about us praying for each other, James 5 even goes so far as to say anyone that brings someone out of their own sin has a multitude of sins covered. James 5 is talking about a co-mediator, or co-redeemer if you will…

The glory is still God’s, the work is still that of God, but we cooporated in that work he already started because we are suppose to ASSIST each other as scripture says.

In Christ

Well, according to the dictionary, a mediatrix is a female (used when comparing Mary).

I believe a gender nuetral word would be co-mediator for us.

And besides, Jesus is a mediator for salvation. However, for intercessory prayer (which by the way, pleases God), we can all do that.

I’m sure that we play the role of co-mediators when we pray to God to forgive our enemies (like in The Lord’s Prayer).

We are praying on behalf of those who tresspass against us. I’m sure this would make God happy as Jesus told us to do that.

 

[Zooey]

If Jesus said the sky is red and Paul said the sky is blue, who’s words would you believe?

First, I want to get a color chart, and check it with both Jesus and St Paul…just on the offchance, you see, that what Jesus calls ‘red’, and what Paul calls ‘blue’, might be exactly the same color…(I have long suspected that colors are almost entirely subjective…).

But then, this:blush: thread has me totallly …

 

[Pwrlftr]

If Jesus said the sky is red and Paul said the sky is blue, who’s words would you believe?

Being that we are indoctrinated to believe that the sky is blue, would you be willing to completely throw away that belief if Jesus said something different thatn what your conditioning taught you?

Would you be willing to go against the convention of your peers to take Jesus’ words for something?

The two can’t contradict. You might as well ask how to make a square circle.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If the Holy Spirit says through Paul there is one Mediator, Jesus, , and Rome says there is a Mediatrix. Which is right.

They both are correct. Although your interpretation of mediator and mediatrix make them conflict with one another when they don’t.

Catechism of the Catholic Church pg.253 #970 Quotes

"Mary’s function as mother of men ( in paranthesis mine, Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of HER OFFSPRING , THOSE WHO KEEP GOD’S COMMANDMENTS AND BEAR WITNESS TO JESUS.) IN NO WAY OBSCURES OR DIMINISHESTHIS UNIQUE MEDIATION OF CHRIST, BUT RATHER SHOWS ITS POWER.…flows forth fom the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends ENTIRELY ON IT, and draws its power from it.

You forgot to finish reading the text on Romes definition of mediatrix… you stopped at one word Mediatrix and drew a false conclusion. Don’t worry, your not the first to misquote Catholic teaching.

No harm done here, just to the ones that dont get to hear the full explanation from Rome, just yours. God willing maybe we can correct this next time.

To get a better grasp of this teaching, look into the communion of saints. for God is not God of the dead, but of the living, whether asleep or awake their all alive to God.

Isn’t that wonderful news that our past loved ones are still alive to God!!!

Peace be with you

 

[2ndGen]

First, I want to get a color chart, and check it with both Jesus and St Paul…just on the offchance, you see, that what Jesus calls ‘red’, and what Paul calls ‘blue’, might be exactly the same color…(I have long suspected that colors are almost entirely subjective…).

But then, this:blush: thread has me totallly …

So Jesus’ words alone would not be sufficient?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If Jesus said the sky is red and Paul said the sky is blue, who’s words would you believe?

Being that we are indoctrinated to believe that the sky is blue, would you be willing to completely throw away that belief if Jesus said something different thatn what your conditioning taught you?

Would you be willing to go against the convention of your peers to take Jesus’ words for something?

What happens if I were BLIND would that make a difference?

 

[2ndGen]

The two can’t contradict. You might as well ask how to make a square circle.

Who said anything about contradiction?

Matter of fact,if Jesus said the sky was red, then Paul would be the first to change his own beliefs and say “Ok, Jesus, from now on, as far as I’m concenred, the sky is no longer blue.”

But what about you, would you accept Jesus’ teaching or Paul’s teaching first?

Nobody ever said that they were in a debate, but just that Paul said one thing and Jesus came and revealed something else (not that Paul was wrong to believe that the sky was blue).

Again, my fault in “how” I asked the question.