"whosoever dies wearing this scapular"

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What did the Blessed Mother mean by “whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”? Isn’t that tokenism?
 
This link is also on Jimmy Akins article and gives a full and most recent catechesis on the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel and what it means. It is put together by both branches of the Carmelite Order, and sets aside many misunderstandings.

carmelitanacollection.com/catechesis.html

By the way, Blessed John Paul II was a Third Order Discalced Carmelite, and was well-versed in the writings of St. John of the Cross.
 
BListon said:
What did the Blessed Mother mean by “whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”? Isn’t that tokenism?
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So those who may just glance at the thread…no it does no mean such.
 
To me it is not tokenism. because Mary made that promise on july 16, 1231 to Saint Stock, that those who wear it around their neck, shall not go to hell. To be clothed in it means that you are continually thinking of me. St Alphonsus says : Just men take pride in having others wear their livery, so the MOST HOLY MARY is please when her servants wear her Scapular as a mark that they have dedicated themself to her service, and are a member of the Family of the Mother of God.
 
Dorothy said:
This link is also on Jimmy Akins article and gives a full and most recent catechesis on the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel and what it means. It is put together by both branches of the Carmelite Order, and sets aside many misunderstandings.

carmelitanacollection.com/catechesis.html

By the way, Blessed John Paul II was a Third Order Discalced Carmelite, and was well-versed in the writings of St. John of the Cross.
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Here is the young Blessed John Paul II wearing his brown scapular…
 
I seem to remember Christ talking about how God looks on the inner person, not the outer. I also remember Him for deriding the Pharisees fo thinking that wearing phylacteries made them holy.
 
Schism_hater said:
I seem to remember Christ talking about how God looks on the inner person, not the outer. I also remember Him for deriding the Pharisees fo thinking that wearing phylacteries made them holy.
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Of course the Lord looks at what is in our spirit. If we were to use any sacramental in a superficial way it would do us no good, and could be a source of pride.

For me and many others it is a reminder to be doing what I promised when I accepted that sacramental. It is definitely not supposed to be used as an ornament.
 
johnthebaptist1 said:
To me it is not tokenism. because Mary made that promise on july 16, 1231 to Saint Stock, that those who wear it around their neck, shall not go to hell. To be clothed in it means that you are continually thinking of me. St Alphonsus says : Just men take pride in having others wear their livery, so the MOST HOLY MARY is please when her servants wear her Scapular as a mark that they have dedicated themself to her service, and are a member of the Family of the Mother of God.
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I have real problems with this concept.
 
Hesychios said:
I have real problems with this concept.
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I agree. The way it is stated can present a problem.

With regard to promises which have been made by visions…(private revelations) here is a quote from Father Benedict Groeschel’s book “A Still Small Voice”, p.55.

“These promises can never be understood outside the general context of Scripture and sacred Tradition.
It is generally recognized by the devout that those who observe these promises must also observe the gospel and the teaching of the Church.”
 
Hesychios said:
I have real problems with this concept.
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How can you have a problem with this concept, when it was Mary the Mother of God, that made this promise t.o the Saint, that those wearing with true faith will not suffer going to hell. God Bless my freind
 
Dorothy said:
I agree. The way it is stated can present a problem.

With regard to promises which have been made by visions…(private revelations) here is a quote from Father Benedict Groeschel’s book “A Still Small Voice”, p.55.

“These promises can never be understood outside the general context of Scripture and sacred Tradition.
It is generally recognized by the devout that those who observe these promises must also observe the gospel and the teaching of the Church.”
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Are you saying that you don,t beleive in what OUR LADY promise to those who wear it around their neck.Shall be saved. Remember this is the mother of GOD you are talking about. But you do have the will to think what you choose. GOD BLESS and may Mary help you find peace in your Heart,and I do follow the gospel and the words of the Church. For I,am a firm beleiver in Jesus and Mary. and God our creator.Again God Bless
 
johnthebaptist1 said:
Are you saying that you don,t beleive in what OUR LADY promise to those who wear it around their neck.Shall be saved. Remember this is the mother of GOD you are talking about. But you do have the will to think what you choose. GOD BLESS and may Mary help you find peace in your Heart,and I do follow the gospel and the words of the Church. For I,am a firm beleiver in Jesus and Mary. and God our creator.Again God Bless
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Are you saying that this is a required belief? After all it was a private revelation and we are not required to believe in any private revelation for our salvation.
 
Kay I am going to throw a curve ball out there. If one commits mortal sin by fulfulling the three conditions for it listed in the Catechism, then shouldn’t one be automatically sent to Hell if they die because they have cut themselves off from the Lord’s sanctifying grace, necessary for entry into the eternal afterlife? The scapular’s promise should be nullified upon mortal sin.
 
I think the usual assumption is that the scapular is the outward sign of an interior state, which involves love for and devotion to Our Lord and Lady. Also, part of the scapular devotion is to pray the rosary every day. A person who wears the scapular and prays the rosary every day is unlikely to persist in a state of mortal sin which would lead to loss of one’s soul, wouldn’t you think?

As with everything - the Fr. Groeschel quote is great - all sacramentals are governed by the law and teaching of the Church, which is that sacramentals are not efficacious in a person’s spiritual life without their inner participation.
 
johnthebaptist1 said:
How can you have a problem with this concept, when it was Mary the Mother of God, that made this promise t.o the Saint, that those wearing with true faith will not suffer going to hell. God Bless my freind
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God bless you too. 🙂

I don’t believe the BVM would ever make such a prideful boast.

She does not have power over the gates of hell, that is God’s prerogative.

If you were to point to a vision of Jesus Christ giving the scapular and making this promise, I would take it more seriously. I find it odd that in all of Jesus’ ministry he never once suggested this sort of thing to his followers, and there is no early church tradition of such a thing.
 
johnthebaptist1 said:
Are you saying that you don,t beleive in what OUR LADY promise to those who wear it around their neck.Shall be saved. Remember this is the mother of GOD you are talking about. But you do have the will to think what you choose. GOD BLESS and may Mary help you find peace in your Heart,and I do follow the gospel and the words of the Church. For I,am a firm beleiver in Jesus and Mary. and God our creator.Again God Bless
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“johnthebaptist1”

I love Our Lady very much and am much indebted to her! Please read my message #10 in this thread and it will help you to understand.

Mary has helped me find the peace of Jesus, as she is a privileged creature, far beyond our finite wisdom and knowledge.

Peace in Jesus and Mary,

Dorothy, Third Order Carmelite
 
To "johnthebaptist1 and others who are interested:

Here is a site giving the most recent catechesis on the Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mount Carmel (year 2000) re-wording and making some corrections about this sacramental.

I have been trying to promote this catechesis every chance I get, so there will be a more balanced understanding.

carmelitanacollection.com/catechesis.html

This site is presented by both branches of the Carmelite Order, O. Carm.; and O.C.D. (Discalced)

Glory to God!
 
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