Why 144,000 is taken literally

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From the 2004 september 1st watchtower.

Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses take the number 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelation literally and not symbolically?

The apostle John wrote: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand.” (Revelation 7:4) In the Bible, the phrase “those who were sealed” refers to a group of individuals who are chosen from among mankind to rule with Christ in heaven over the coming Paradise earth. (2*Corinthians 1:21,*22; Revelation 5:9,*10; 20:6) Their number, 144,000, is understood literally for several reasons. One is found in the immediate context of Revelation 7:4.

After the apostle John was told in vision about this group of 144,000 individuals, he was shown another group. John describes this second group as “a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.” This great crowd refers to those who will survive the coming “great tribulation,” which will destroy the present wicked world.—Revelation 7:9,*14.

Note, however, the contrast that John draws between verses4 and 9 of Revelation chapter7. He states that the first group, “those who were sealed,” has a definite number. However, the second group, “a great crowd,” is without a definite number. With that in mind, it is logical to take the number 144,000 to be literal. If the number 144,000 were symbolic and referred to a group that is actually numberless, the force of the contrast between those two verses would be lost. Thus, the context strongly indicates that the number 144,000 must be taken literally.

Various Bible scholars, past and present, reached the same conclusion—that is, the number is literal. For instance, in commenting on Revelation 7:4, 9, British lexicographer Dr.Ethelbert W. Bullinger observed some 100 years ago: “It is the simple statement of fact: a definite number in contrast with the indefinite number in this very chapter.” (The Apocalypse or “The Day of the Lord,” page282) More recently, Robert L. Thomas,Jr., professor of New Testament at The Master’s Seminary in the United States, wrote: “The case for symbolism is exegetically weak.” He added: “It is a definite number [at 7:4] in contrast with the indefinite number of 7:9. If it is taken symbolically, no number in the book can be taken literally.”—Revelation: An Exegetical Commentary, Volume1, page*474.

Some argue that since Revelation contains highly symbolic language, all numbers found in this book, including the number 144,000, must be symbolic. (Revelation 1:1,*4; 2:10) That conclusion, though, is clearly not correct. Granted, Revelation contains numerous symbolic numbers, but it also includes literal numbers. For instance, John speaks of “the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (Revelation 21:14) Clearly, the number 12 mentioned in this verse is literal, not symbolic. Further, the apostle John writes about “the thousand years” of Christ’s reign. That number is also to be taken literally, as a careful consideration of the Bible shows. (Revelation 20:3, 5-7) Hence, whether a number in Revelation is to be taken literally or symbolically depends on its background and setting.

The conclusion that the number 144,000 is literal and refers to a limited number of individuals, a relatively small group when compared with the “great crowd,” also harmonizes with other Bible passages. For instance, later in the vision that the apostle John receives, the 144,000 are described as those who “were bought from among mankind as firstfruits.” (Revelation 14:1,*4) The expression “firstfruits” refers to a small representative selection. Also, while Jesus was on earth, he spoke about those who will rule with him in his heavenly Kingdom and called them a “little flock.” (Luke 12:32; 22:29) Indeed, those from among mankind who will rule in heaven are few in comparison with those of mankind who will inhabit the coming Paradise earth.

Hence, the context of Revelation 7:4 and related statements found elsewhere in the Bible bear out that the number 144,000 is to be taken literally. It refers to those who will rule in heaven with Christ over a paradise earth, which will be filled with a large and undetermined number of happy people who worship Jehovah God.—Psalm 37:29.

[Footnote]

For more information on the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, see Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! pages*289-90, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
 
And they are all from Israel - No Goys need apply.
And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, 5 twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben, twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad, 6 twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher, twelve thousand of the tribe of Naphtali, twelve thousand of the tribe of Manasseh, 7 twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon, twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi, twelve thousand of the tribe of Issachar, 8 twelve thousand of the tribe of Zebulun, twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph, twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin
 
This is to help you understand why they take the number and knothing
else literally.

The Jw bible could be a little altered in some places. I can post the scriptures if you want.

Any other questions feel free to ask and I will post right from the watchtower.
 

Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses take the number 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelation literally and not symbolically?

…However, the second group, “a great crowd,” is without a definite number. With that in mind, it is logical to take the number 144,000 to be literal. If the number 144,000 were symbolic and referred to a group that is actually numberless, the force of the contrast between those two verses would be lost. Thus, the context strongly indicates that the number 144,000 must be taken literally.

The above is why THEY think it’s a literal number.

Of course, it’s not a literalistic number, and here’s why:

The FIRST number (144000) was the “twelve multiple” which represented “large numbers from the 12 tribes”, which was a “small sub-group” while still being rather large, which was a MINORITY of it’s “super-group”, which was ALL HUMANITY which, sensibly, would need no further explanation other than “VAST INNUMERABLE HOLY (POLY)CARP BIG!”, therefore not needing to be “definite” in quality.

Their thinking that “since they’re BOTH really BIG and only one of them is ‘definite’ then the ‘definite’ one MUST be LITERALISTICALLY the actual number” is wrong because once you show the “us minority”-ness of the 144000 (symbolically arrived at) number, nobody CARES about the “symbolic” value of an “everybody else” number!

Personally, I think the “everybody else number” is really 2x3x4x5x6x7x8x9x10x11x12x1000x1000x1000, which would be
479001600000000000.

Ah, what the heck, makes as much sense, and maybe more so, that saying that only 144000 will be in heaven!
 
It’s basic Hebrew numerology.

12 = God’s chosen people, part of His covenant, societal perfection
1,000 = Big number, gigantic scale, ultimate
Any number squared = The meaning of that number, but perfected

12 X 12 = 144 = The perfection of God’s covenant with man
144 X 1,000 = 144,000 = The perfection of God’s covenant with man on a gigantic scale
 
Goyim is plural, Goy singular…So, if a guy like me dates a Jewish woman who just wants to use me that makes me her goy boy toy.

Back to the subject. The number is FIGURATIVE and means the full number of Jews will be saved…whatever that full number is…IF the JW’s insist on taking the number literally, they also need to take the fact that it’s ONLY JEWS in that 144,000. The Society also completely ignores the fact that the great crowd beyond number is also before the throne of God. In other words, the GREAT CROWD is also in heaven and has the “heavenly hope.”

Any close look at JW theology makes it fall apart faster than the 1914 date.
 
Note that if one goes to Revfelation 14:3-4 we find the 144,000 again.
No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; * it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.
Note that they are all virgins. Do the JW’s take that literally also?
 
The 144,000 are 12,000 each of the twelve tribes of Israel (Gen.49:28 below).

Directly AFTER the Sixth SEAL (Re.6:12-17) and BEFORE the Seventh, and final, SEAL is opened (Re.8:1), the 144,000 will be sealed (Re.7:3-4 below). They will be sealed in Jerusalem (Eze.9:4, Eze.9:11 below).

We will know that the sealing of the 144,000 will be taking place when we experience that the winds of the earth will have stopped blowing for the duration of the sealing (Re.7:1-4).

The 144,000 are sealed that they will not see death. The 144,000 are those who are “alive and remain” to be caught up with the dead in Christ at the Seventh Trumpet (1 Thess.4:16-17).

Witnessing the Sixth Seal, the 144,000 will know that Jesus is the Messiah. We know this because we see the 144,000, who have been redeemed from the earth, who have been redeemed from among men, standing with the Lamb (the Savior) on heavenly mount Sion (Re.14:1-2, Heb.12:22 below) directly after the Seventh Trumpet ascension.

The 144,000 are the firstfruits unto God AND to the Lamb because they were the first “chosen” of the church (1 Cor.10:32) before the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4).

The 144,000 are virgins (Re.14:4 below). They are virgins because the entire church (1 Cor.10:32) are a chaste virgin to Christ (2 Cor.11:2).

The 144,000 are without fault (Re.14:5 below), because the entire church are without fault (Rom.8:1).

The 144,000 are the most Holy (Dan.9:24).

Gen.49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob): and this is it that their father (Jacob/Israel) spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

Re.7:3 Saying, HURT NOT the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, TILL WE HAVE SEALED the servants of our God in their foreheads (Re.14:1 below).

Re.7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed (Eze.9:4): and there were sealed AN HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND of all the tribes of the children of Israel (Jacob – Gen.49:28 above).

Eze.9:4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of JERUSALEM, and SET A MARK upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst (of the city) thereof.

Eze.9:11 And, behold, the man clothed in linen, which had the inkhorn by his side (Eze.9:2), reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

Re.14:1 And I looked, and lo, a Lamb (Rev.13:8) stood on mount Sion (Heb.12:22 below), and with him AN HUNDRED FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads (Re.7:3-4 above, Eze.9:4).

Re.14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne (Re.7:10, Re.7:17), and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn the song but THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH (Re.11:13, 1 Thess.4:17).

Re.14:4 These (144,000) are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins (2 Cor.11:2). These are they which follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men (Re.14:3 above), BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God (the Father) AND to the Lamb (the Savior).

Re.14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are WITHOUT FAULT (Rom.8:1) before the throne of God.

Heb.12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion (Re.14:1 above), and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels.

Pat (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web - groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
 
Are you Schmoolie Kelley’s kid!? Is your sister still a serious cutey, or did she take after Aunt Chavala like I figured she would?

Patricia writes:

I am sorry, I’m not related
 
I don’t agree with the theology, but fine let them be literally 144,000 sealed virgin Israelites. That still doesn’t include anyone who is not of Jewish descent, and there are many JWs at this time who claim to be anointed and are not Jewish. Oops.

But, I assure you as Revelation also says, there will be a great crowd before the throne of God as well.

I once brought that up to a Jehovah’s Witness and they claimed that being “before the throne” and “before the Lamb” was not actually being “in the presence of”. You can be before the throne and the Lamb on earth as a vision. :confused:
 
I agree with you. The 144,000 of the 12,000 each of the tribes of Israel are not the only ones to receive eternal life.

Patricia
 
From the 2004 september 1st watchtower.

Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses take the number 144,000 mentioned in the book of Revelation literally and not symbolically?

The apostle John wrote: “I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand.” (Revelation 7:4) In the Bible, the phrase “those who were sealed” refers to a group of individuals who are chosen from among mankind to rule with Christ in heaven over the coming Paradise earth. (2*Corinthians 1:21,*22; Revelation 5:9,*10; 20:6) Their number, 144,000, is understood literally for several reasons. One is found in the immediate context of Revelation 7:4.

After the apostle John was told in vision about this group of 144,000 individuals, he was shown another group. John describes this second group as “a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.” This great crowd refers to those who will survive the coming “great tribulation,” which will destroy the present wicked world.—Revelation 7:9,*14.

Note, however, the contrast that John draws between verses4 and 9 of Revelation chapter7. He states that the first group, “those who were sealed,” has a definite number. However, the second group, “a great crowd,” is without a definite number. With that in mind, it is logical to take the number 144,000 to be literal. If the number 144,000 were symbolic and referred to a group that is actually numberless, the force of the contrast between those two verses would be lost. Thus, the context strongly indicates that the number 144,000 must be taken literally.

Various Bible scholars, past and present, reached the same conclusion—that is, the number is literal. For instance, in commenting on Revelation 7:4, 9, British lexicographer Dr.Ethelbert W. Bullinger observed some 100 years ago: “It is the simple statement of fact: a definite number in contrast with the indefinite number in this very chapter.” (The Apocalypse or “The Day of the Lord,” page282) More recently, Robert L. Thomas,Jr., professor of New Testament at The Master’s Seminary in the United States, wrote: “The case for symbolism is exegetically weak.” He added: “It is a definite number [at 7:4] in contrast with the indefinite number of 7:9. If it is taken symbolically, no number in the book can be taken literally.”—Revelation: An Exegetical Commentary, Volume1, page*474.

Some argue that since Revelation contains highly symbolic language, all numbers found in this book, including the number 144,000, must be symbolic. (Revelation 1:1,*4; 2:10) That conclusion, though, is clearly not correct. Granted, Revelation contains numerous symbolic numbers, but it also includes literal numbers. For instance, John speaks of “the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” (Revelation 21:14) Clearly, the number 12 mentioned in this verse is literal, not symbolic. Further, the apostle John writes about “the thousand years” of Christ’s reign. That number is also to be taken literally, as a careful consideration of the Bible shows. (Revelation 20:3, 5-7) Hence, whether a number in Revelation is to be taken literally or symbolically depends on its background and setting.

The conclusion that the number 144,000 is literal and refers to a limited number of individuals, a relatively small group when compared with the “great crowd,” also harmonizes with other Bible passages. For instance, later in the vision that the apostle John receives, the 144,000 are described as those who “were bought from among mankind as firstfruits.” (Revelation 14:1,*4) The expression “firstfruits” refers to a small representative selection. Also, while Jesus was on earth, he spoke about those who will rule with him in his heavenly Kingdom and called them a “little flock.” (Luke 12:32; 22:29) Indeed, those from among mankind who will rule in heaven are few in comparison with those of mankind who will inhabit the coming Paradise earth.

Hence, the context of Revelation 7:4 and related statements found elsewhere in the Bible bear out that the number 144,000 is to be taken literally. It refers to those who will rule in heaven with Christ over a paradise earth, which will be filled with a large and undetermined number of happy people who worship Jehovah God.—Psalm 37:29.

[Footnote]

For more information on the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, see Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! pages*289-90, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Dear Excaliber,

As far as I know, the JW has their own interpretation of the bible. Before talking into the interpretation, does anybody know who made the translation for the JW’s bible from the original language of Greek into whatever language they have? Otherwise, we will be using our bible and the JW will refer to their bible. That will be apple and orange to discuss.
 
I dunno…if I thought only 144,000 were going to make it to Heaven, then I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be out trying to win converts…doesn’t make sense to me 😃
 
I dunno…if I thought only 144,000 were going to make it to Heaven, then I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be out trying to win converts…doesn’t make sense to me 😃
Well Jw’s think the rest will be here on earth.

Remember when Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth…Jw’s take that literally.

They have the mind set that if God wanted us in heaven he would not have created the earth, they think God is gona make the earth the way it was before adam and eve messed up.

I am not sure who translated the jw bible, I ofcourse don’t read it anymore…lets use our Catholic bibles.
 
Fred Franz and 4 other men were the ‘Translation Committtee’ for the New World Translation. According to his nephew, Raymond Franz, who was there and left JWs after many years serving on the Governing Body.

The reason JWs believe the 144,000 are SPIRITUAL Israelites and not literal ones is because the tribes listed in Revelation are not the same ones listed in the Old Testament. So they say they are SPIRITUAL Israelites and therefore God’s ADOPTED sons. They also use Jesus’ illustration of the olive tree with the unfruitful branches lopped off and replaced by wild olive branches grafted on.
 
The 144,000 are a literal number. They are 12,000 each of the 12 tribes of Israel/Jacob (Gen.49:28 below).

Gen.49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob): and this is it that their father (Jacob/Israel) spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

Pat (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web - groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
 
The 144,000 are a literal number. They are 12,000 each of the 12 tribes of Israel/Jacob (Gen.49:28 below).

Gen.49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel (Jacob): and this is it that their father (Jacob/Israel) spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

Pat (ndbpsa ©) Bible Prophecy on the Web - groups.yahoo.com/group/BibleProphecy
So the 12,000 is literal, but the tribes are figurative? :confused:
 
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