Why a Life of Penance? Why do People Do It?

[TrueLight]

STOP THE PRESSES

Physical asceticism is used to achieve a life of penance. They are not the penance. Penance is a way of conversion away from sin toward the perfection of charity.

Doing penance involves doing whatever it takes to love God and man. It requires discipline. That’s where fasting, abstinence and other corporal disciplines enter into the picture. We practice them to discipline ourselves. But we discipline ourselves in order to grow in charity. If charity is not the goal, then it’s not penance, it’s masochism.

Asceticism is holy only when it produces simple acts of great love for God and man, especially the most vulnerable members of society.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Penance is beginning to sound like something very abstract. So if I aim towards living a life of charity, I am living a life of penance?

I though penance was more concrete than abstract.

Asceticism is holy only when it produces simple acts of great love for God and man, especially the most vulnerable members of society.

Yeah, I guess I was associating that with penance.

 

[JReducation]

I had to look up corporal works of mercy. I didn’t know what that mean.
To feed the hungry;
To give drink to the thirsty;
To clothe the naked;
To harbour the harbourless;
To visit the sick;
To ransom the captive;
To bury the dead.

Hmm. I never looked at it that way.

So Br. JR, If I understand you correctly, there may be different distractions for different people. For some people money is a distraction and for some food is a distraction. One who lives a life of penance strips oneself of these distractions, spend time in prayer and live life according to the three mitzvahs. Basically, they try to live a life pleasing to God.

BINGO

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Penance is beginning to sound like something very abstract. So if I aim towards living a life of charity, I am living a life of penance?

I though penance was more concrete than abstract.

Penance is both tangible and intangible.

St.Francis is considered the master theologian on penance, here is what he wrote to the laity of his time

Letter to All The Faithful

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

Penance is both tangible and intangible.

St.Francis is considered the master theologian on penance, here is what he wrote to the laity of his time

Letter to All The Faithful

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you for sharing this letter. It was awesome reading it. Sort of like reading one of St. Paul’s letters.

What is your interpretation of the below?

We ought to hate our bodies with [their] vices and sins, because the Lord says in the Gospel that all vices and sins come forth from the heart.

 

[JReducation]

Thank you for sharing this letter. It was awesome reading it. Sort of like reading one of St. Paul’s letters.

Our Holy Father Francis draws heavily from St. Paul and St. John in his theology. He builds on Paul’s St. Paul’s message to “conform to Christ in all things” and to St. John’s “remain in His love.”

What is your interpretation of the below?

There are two things going on here. First, Francis of Assisi struggled with chastity. Which is very interesting in itself, because his lifetime friends swore that he died a virgin. He was not a womanizer. However, he was young, romantic and a typical male of his age. His dream was to have a wife and children, which Christ called him to surrender. He’s speaking about the struggles that one often has with the mind and body in order to comply with the Will of God. He points to Christ’s comment that it’s not what enters the body that is sinful, but that which comes from the body, because it comes from the heart.

If you go back to that site and read his writings, especially the rule and his admonitions, you will see a complete theology of penance.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

.

If you go back to that site and read his writings, especially the rule and his admonitions, you will see a complete theology of penance.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I will. Thank you!

 

[rainbow1]

Very interesting. I wonder if detachment includes detachment from people and if so, is that healthy?

I have been reading about the life of St Catherine of Genoa and she said to God at one point,“Thou hast commanded me to love my neighbor and I am unable to love anyone but thee,or to admit any partner with thee: how then shall I obey thee? " and God replied,” For the welfare of the neighbor thou shouldst do all that is necessary for his soul and body. Such a love as this is sure to be without passion: because it is not in himself but in God that the neighbor should be loved." Evidently at another time the Lord gave her the command,“You will love everyone without love”. In other words, she was learning to take God’s love and then pass that on to others…rather than share a love of her own which might attract or bind people to herself rather than to God.

 

[TrueLight]

I have been reading about the life of St Catherine of Genoa and she said to God at one point,“Thou hast commanded me to love my neighbor and I am unable to love anyone but thee,or to admit any partner with thee: how then shall I obey thee? " and God replied,” For the welfare of the neighbor thou shouldst do all that is necessary for his soul and body. Such a love as this is sure to be without passion: because it is not in himself but in God that the neighbor should be loved." Evidently at another time the Lord gave her the command,“You will love everyone without love”. In other words, she was learning to take God’s love and then pass that on to others…rather than share a love of her own which might attract or bind people to herself rather than to God.

That’s some interesting stuff. It is almost like impersonal love. Who can’t tell when someone doesn’t really feel, though? Who can’t tell when someone has no passion?

 

[rainbow1]

That’s some interesting stuff. It is almost like impersonal love. Who can’t tell when someone doesn’t really feel, though? Who can’t tell when someone has no passion?

Yeah, my take on it is that God was wanting “His” love to flow through the saint to others, rather than there be human entanglements or motivations going on… so it is a form of detachment to sort of hand it all over to God and say whatever “His” will be done instead of loving with one’s own motivations…

 

[TrueLight]

Yeah, my take on it is that God was wanting “His” love to flow through the saint to others, rather than there be human entanglements or motivations going on… so it is a form of detachment to sort of hand it all over to God and say whatever “His” will be done instead of loving with one’s own motivations…

That is really awesome. I’m going to meditate on that for the next couple of days.

 

[fred_conty]

Hi,
Penance is:
Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving as mentioned in the bible.
Prayer, St. Alphonsus Ligourie said that at least 15 minutes a day is essential if one is to be saved.
Jesus went frequently at night to a secluded place to pray. “Pray, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.”
Fasting, Jesus did this for 40 days in the desert to prepare for the minstry.
Almsgiving is mentioned a number of times in the old testament, for the poor.

Everyone must suffer, it is a part of life. Penance is suffering.
Sufferings can be done for spiritual reasons, out of resentment, or ignored.

Is suffering mentioned in the bible?
St. Paul says that when he suffers he is making up what is lacking to the body of Christ.
Jesus said, “No greater love does a man have than to lay down his life for his friends.”

Suffering— where does this fit in the spiritual life?
I know what the real good of suffering is from the writting of the saints.
St. Rose of Lima gives a good explaination as well as example. You might try googling her.
The saints say a number of good things result from suffering if done for the love for Jesus.

Salvation of souls going to hell by uniting our sufferings with those of Jesus.
To glorify our Father in heaven by accepting and praising Him for the hardships without complaint.
To make up for the blasphemies as well as sacreligious and hateful acts against our loving Father.
Love is demonstrated by doing that which is difficult. Accepted sufferings demonstrate how much we love Him.
Our love grows for Jesus.
For those in Purgatory.
Makes our prayers stronger.
We walk the walk.

There are some EXTRODINARY sufferings that are sought above what life brings.
The saints sometimes used hairshirts. John the Baptist had a garment of camel’s hair.
Some used whips.

There are ORDINARY sufferings sought above what life brings.
These may be total or partial, some days, some hours.
Self denial. Limiting movies, TV, parties, going out, etc.
Denial of food and drink. Beer, coffee, ice, candy, soft drinks, fast foods, snack foods,
eating between meals, drinking nothing but water, etc.

Prayer can also be a form of suffering and denial in that we give up our time and make ourselves concentrate.
Reading of the Bible in a reverent way is a form of prayer and denial.

Our Protestant brothers have a difficult time with this since Jesus suffered for all sin and makes our siffering unnecessary.
But everyone suffers and it is important to do it in a way that will glorify the Father. For we must praise Him in everything.
And if we deny the legitimate pleasures, then we will be strong enough to deny the sinful temptations.

 

[TrueLight]

Hi,
Penance is:
Prayer, fasting, and almsgiving as mentioned in the bible.
Prayer, St. Alphonsus Ligourie said that at least 15 minutes a day is essential if one is to be saved.
Jesus went frequently at night to a secluded place to pray. “Pray, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.”
Fasting, Jesus did this for 40 days in the desert to prepare for the minstry.
Almsgiving is mentioned a number of times in the old testament, for the poor.

Everyone must suffer, it is a part of life. Penance is suffering.
Sufferings can be done for spiritual reasons, out of resentment, or ignored.

Is suffering mentioned in the bible?
St. Paul says that when he suffers he is making up what is lacking to the body of Christ.
Jesus said, “No greater love does a man have than to lay down his life for his friends.”

Suffering— where does this fit in the spiritual life?
I know what the real good of suffering is from the writting of the saints.
St. Rose of Lima gives a good explaination as well as example. You might try googling her.
The saints say a number of good things result from suffering if done for the love for Jesus.

Salvation of souls going to hell by uniting our sufferings with those of Jesus.
To glorify our Father in heaven by accepting and praising Him for the hardships without complaint.
To make up for the blasphemies as well as sacreligious and hateful acts against our loving Father.
Love is demonstrated by doing that which is difficult. Accepted sufferings demonstrate how much we love Him.
Our love grows for Jesus.
For those in Purgatory.
Makes our prayers stronger.
We walk the walk.

There are some EXTRODINARY sufferings that are sought above what life brings.
The saints sometimes used hairshirts. John the Baptist had a garment of camel’s hair.
Some used whips.

There are ORDINARY sufferings sought above what life brings.
These may be total or partial, some days, some hours.
Self denial. Limiting movies, TV, parties, going out, etc.
Denial of food and drink. Beer, coffee, ice, candy, soft drinks, fast foods, snack foods,
eating between meals, drinking nothing but water, etc.

Prayer can also be a form of suffering and denial in that we give up our time and make ourselves concentrate.
Reading of the Bible in a reverent way is a form of prayer and denial.

Our Protestant brothers have a difficult time with this since Jesus suffered for all sin and makes our siffering unnecessary.
But everyone suffers and it is important to do it in a way that will glorify the Father. For we must praise Him in everything.
And if we deny the legitimate pleasures, then we will be strong enough to deny the sinful temptations.

Thank you Fred. So I read a little about St Rose of Lima.

This South American Saint’s real name was Isabel, but she was such a beautiful baby that she was called Rose, and that name remained. As she grew older, she became more and more beautiful, and one day, her mother put a wreath of flowers on her head to show off her loveliness to friends. But Rose had no desire to be admired, for her heart had been given to Jesus. So she put a long pin into that wreath and it pierced her so deeply, that she had a hard time getting the wreath off afterward. Another time she became afraid that her beauty might be a temptation to someone, since people could not take their eyes off her. Therefore, she rubbed her face with pepper until it was all red and blistered.

 

[rainbow1]

That is really awesome. I’m going to meditate on that for the next couple of days.

TrueLight,
I was reading about St.Francis, and the author said, “He (St.Francis) had become a kind of keyhole through which he knew those who loved him, or even saw him clearly, could see God.”
I think this fits in perfectly with what we were talking about detached love…

 

[JReducation]

TrueLight,
I was reading about St.Francis, and the author said, “He (St.Francis) had become a kind of keyhole through which he knew those who loved him, or even saw him clearly, could see God.”
I think this fits in perfectly with what we were talking about detached love…

That’s why the Church calls St. Francis The Mirror of Perfection, the Icon of Christ, the Alter Christus. By detaching from things, people, places, non-values and anything that interfered with the love of God and neighbor, those who knew him then and who know him today, can see the love of God through him. St. Bonaventure calls him the perfect disciple from whom all should learn how to follow Christ.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[pablope]

Hi Pablope,

Is it possible to ever be in the state of the perfect?

 

[JReducation]

I just want to add a cuation about stigmata. There is only one stigmata that the Church has officially held up as a sign of holiness, that was St. FRancis of Assisi. Padre Pio’s stigmata was not given that endorsement.

This does not mean that Padre Pio is not holy. It means that the Capuchin Franciscans do not hold this up as a sign of his holiness. They hold up his heroic life of virtue. The stigmata is a manifestation of God’s glory, but it was not what made Pio a saint.

Francis’ stigmata is held up with an official statement from the Church because of who Francis was. On separate occasions, the Church declared Francis to be: the Alter Christus (not to be confused with the title given to the priest at mass), the Mirror of Perfection, the Icon of
Christ, the Most Perfect Catholic, the Living Icon of the First Beatitude.

Francis’ life was identical to that of Christ that it is thelogically believed and taught that there was no other way in which he could resemble Christ any closer than to physically change.

Here again, we see Francis become like Christ through a life of penance. The physical change was the last thing left for him to become a reflection of Christ.

In Padre Pio’s life, the stigmata plays a very different role and that’s why the Franciscan family has never submitted it for a seal of approval from the Holy See. It is believed that it was the work of God. There is no doubt. How it fits into the big picture is still being studied by the Capuchin Franciscan Friars. It’s their call to make. He’s a member of that obedience, therefore, only they and the pope can speak to this issue.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Jim_Roberts]

I had not yet read about St Rita, but did a quick Google search and read about her life, particularly saint_
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Furthermore, since his powers of healing were not limited to time and space, he theoretically could have cured everyone in the world and put an end to all humann suffering
The fact that he did not eliminate all pain and evil from our human condition certainly
cannot be attributed to his lack of power, or to his lack of commpassion and love. He
overwhelming showed both of these, most of all by his own suffering, deaht on the cross, and resurrection,

Another conclusion Christians have drawn from Jesus’ approach to human suffering
is that he did not come to take it away, but rather to give it human meaning–or at least to help his people understand that there is a need for it.

 

[JReducation]

TrueLight;8125111:

I had not yet read about St Rita, but did a quick Google search and read about her life, particularly saint_
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Furthermore, since his powers of healing were not limited to time and space, he theoretically could have cured everyone in the world and put an end to all humann suffering
The fact that he did not eliminate all pain and evil from our human condition certainly
cannot be attributed to his lack of power, or to his lack of commpassion and love. He
overwhelming showed both of these, most of all by his own suffering, deaht on the cross, and resurrection,

Another conclusion Christians have drawn from Jesus’ approach to human suffering
is that he did not come to take it away, but rather to give it human meaning–or at least to help his people understand that there is a need for it.

You’re very right. If we deny the value of human suffering, we have to question the value of the crucifixion.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

I just want to add a cuation about stigmata. There is only one stigmata that the Church has officially held up as a sign of holiness, that was St. FRancis of Assisi. Padre Pio’s stigmata was not given that endorsement.

This does not mean that Padre Pio is not holy. It means that the Capuchin Franciscans do not hold this up as a sign of his holiness. They hold up his heroic life of virtue. The stigmata is a manifestation of God’s glory, but it was not what made Pio a saint.

Francis’ stigmata is held up with an official statement from the Church because of who Francis was. On separate occasions, the Church declared Francis to be: the Alter Christus (not to be confused with the title given to the priest at mass), the Mirror of Perfection, the Icon of
Christ, the Most Perfect Catholic, the Living Icon of the First Beatitude.

Francis’ life was identical to that of Christ that it is thelogically believed and taught that there was no other way in which he could resemble Christ any closer than to physically change.

Here again, we see Francis become like Christ through a life of penance. The physical change was the last thing left for him to become a reflection of Christ.

In Padre Pio’s life, the stigmata plays a very different role and that’s why the Franciscan family has never submitted it for a seal of approval from the Holy See. It is believed that it was the work of God. There is no doubt. How it fits into the big picture is still being studied by the Capuchin Franciscan Friars. It’s their call to make. He’s a member of that obedience, therefore, only they and the pope can speak to this issue.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Is there a medical explanation for stigmata?

 

[pablope]

I just want to add a cuation about stigmata. There is only one stigmata that the Church has officially held up as a sign of holiness, that was St. FRancis of Assisi. Padre Pio’s stigmata was not given that endorsement.

This does not mean that Padre Pio is not holy. It means that the Capuchin Franciscans do not hold this up as a sign of his holiness. They hold up his heroic life of virtue. The stigmata is a manifestation of God’s glory, but it was not what made Pio a saint.

In Padre Pio’s life, the stigmata plays a very different role and that’s why the Franciscan family has never submitted it for a seal of approval from the Holy See. It is believed that it was the work of God. There is no doubt. How it fits into the big picture is still being studied by the Capuchin Franciscan Friars. It’s their call to make. He’s a member of that obedience, therefore, only they and the pope can speak to this issue.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks for the info, Bro JR. Since you are more knowledgeable about the life of St. Francis, do you know if he was also attacked by the demons, like Padre Pio?

And I am aware that Padre Pio’s stigmata and miracles during his life do not count toward sainthood. I read this in another article before. And I think this is the reason why it took till 2002 (?) for him to get canonized.