Why a Muslim on a Catholic site:

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Greetings, Wahrani. I hope that you are writing what you actually believe, and that you are what you seem: a person who would be called a “moderate” Muslim, and not a radical and militant Muslim who wants to subjugate the world to his faith, and to Islamic rule, no matter what the cost. The Western world has very recently experienced the horror of ISIS - or Daesh. Do you reject their understanding of the Muslim faith, their tactics and goals?
ISIS, (also know as Daesh, ISIL or simply Islamic State) is a Jihadist militant group in Iraq and Syria influenced by the Wahhabi movement. It aims to establish a caliphate, or Islamic state in Sunni majority regions of Iraq and Syria. In June 2014, they seized control of Mosul, Fallujah and Tikrit in northern-Iraq in large scale military offensives.
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Wahrani said:
Personally I grant you to disagree with me, I grant you the right to criticize my religion in an objective framework and not to be versed in insult and denial, tolerance remains a limited option.

Without wanting to report anything and as a Muslim, I deny the claim of Christianity that Jesus was truly divine. I deny the claim of Judaism that the Messiah has not yet come. In any case, I deny the extra-biblical evidence of the life of Jesus which is not as convincing as you seem to suggest.
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I understand that. This probably isn’t thread to proselytize, I shouldn’t have brought it up. My point is that while I do reject Islam that does not mean I reject you or that you aren’t welcome here. It simply means we take our disagreements into account. We are both made in God’s image 🙂
 
No, Mr. Fide, I am an Algerian Muslim from a peaceful people.

You seem to ignore that this criminal organization of Daesh may be made up of fundamentalist Muslims, . . .

ISIS the new form of inquisition to refine its plan of world domination

The globalists . . . would be linked by a single plan to comfort the crows who reign supreme over the Arab world. Wrestlers, junk princes, putschist generals or despotic heads of state of all kinds, all the obscurantist forces and that they take Islam and the Muslim people as hostages. . . .
 
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Wahrani said:
Good evening and Good road, I leave you in your world of debauchery under the uniforms, the cassocks and the beautiful speeches of the Churches!!!
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Is this an example of ‘debating with mutual respected’, brother?

I refer you to your opening post.
 
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There it is…I wasn’t provoking just pointing out that our religions are inherently opposed on some counts, thus your view of all religions being able to be believed cannot be true at the same time. But it seems to me that you aren’t willing to listen to our arguments anyways:
Wahrani said:
The foundations of the Bible are the imaginary, and accounts of human invention.
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and this:
Wahrani said:
Playing provocation, as you do so well, is characteristic of Satan’s disciples.
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I already said I wasn’t trying to provoke, I am not only defending my faith, but saying what I know to be true. If it is true, wouldn’t you want to know it?

You are coming on to a Catholic website, and you should expect to hear Catholic Answers and arguments in response to your claims. Most of us here are helping others learn about the Catholic faith, and helping others understand the truth of the Catholic Church.
 
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It doesn’t take much for the “peaceful” veneer to evaporate. Thank you for getting to the real point.
 
fide said:
It doesn’t take much for the “peaceful” veneer to evaporate. Thank you for getting to the real point.
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To be fair, asking a Muslim “so, are you into ISIS?” is not the friendliest question. It would be like asking a Catholic “so, you down with pedophilia or what?”

It almost seemed like you were baiting him a bit. I’m sure your intentions were good, but asking someone if they’re sympathetic to terrorism is pretty provocative.
 
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I think it was a reasonable and fair question, considering the many atrocities Christians have suffered at the hands of Islam. It served to reveal what was under his polite talk.
 
Shaykh Muhammad Al-Yaqoubi writes:

‘Islamic Law grants all non-Muslim minorities security and safety within the Muslim states through contracts set between them and the Muslims. These contracts are binding for Muslims and everlasting, so that they cannot nullified by any authority, at any time . It cannot be denied that some Muslim rulers, in a few cases, did attempt to inflict injustice on the People of the Book, but it is also true that Muslim jurists opposed those rulers on the basis of the pre-existing contracts established between Muslims and non-Muslims, some of which date back to the second Rightly-Guided Caliph of Islam, ˓Umar. The jurists described those pacts, which grant protection and rights to both the People of the Book and the other non-Muslim minorities that have been assimilated to them, as “binding forever.” Their perpetuity is one of the salient characteristics of the citizenship contracts in a Muslim state.’ (‘Refuting ISIS’ – my emphasis).

These contracts do not have to be in writing. A non-Muslim merely has to reside in a Muslim country – or even to enter as a visitor – to have protection under the Law.

You will not find a single verse in the Qur’an that sanctions the persecution of Christians; nor indeed of anyone, regardless of their Faith – or none .

Why would you blame Islam for actions of those who violate its Law?

Would you have me blame the Church for Catholic France’s invasion of Algeria in 1830, and the horrors inflicted on its people? I think not; and I don’t.
 
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Niblo said:
Why would you blame Islam for actions of those who violate its Law?

Would you have me blame the Church for Catholic France’s invasion of Algeria in 1830, and the horrors inflicted on its people? I think not; and I don’t.
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I think fide was asking whether that is also position of Wahrani or not. He clearly asked “do you reject their understanding?”. So that was an option.

We mustn’t blame religion for those who take it’s teachings out of context. One way or another.
 
Agreed.

My apologies. I ought to have stated that my post was in response to this:

'I think it was a reasonable and fair question, considering the many atrocities Christians have suffered at the hands of Islam - my emphasis.

It is in our nature, I guess, to blame the innocent for the actions of a few of their co-religionists. I have a vivid memory of a very good friend of mine - an Irish Sister of Mercy - being spat in the face by a male Londoner, during the IRA bombing campaign in Briton. I cannot print what this man said, suffice it to say that my friend - and all Catholics - were tarred with the same brush.
 
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OrbisNonSufficit said:
I think fide was asking whether that is also position of Wahrani or not. He clearly asked “do you reject their understanding?”. So that was an option.
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Yes, and thank you. Every religion has been used/misused - by the interpretations and/or misinterpretations of people. In recent history - my lifetime - radical Islamists have committed horrific attacks on the innocent, and this continues today, and I don’t recall hearing a wide-spread chorus of condemnation of their acts or disclaimers of their beliefs by Muslims of peace. I am concluding that the Koran has enough ambiguity in it to enable consistent interpretations that allow schools of thought to go either way - such does seem to be the result, anyway. Some Muslims are peaceful, some are violent and zealously so.

I am certainly no expert on Islam, or the Koran, nor do I want to invest the time needed to become one. I have heard peaceful Muslims speak of peace, but I have seen too much that screams otherwise, to have any confidence in the professions of peace.
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
We mustn’t blame religion for those who take it’s teachings out of context. One way or another.
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Thinking about my previous post: My friend would say that the guy who spat in her face was not an evil man, just an ignorant man, afraid. She forgave him (she is no longer with us), but I never did. Maybe it’s time I followed her example…if only to please her.
 
Salam. I am a Roman Catholic Arab from the Middle East. I am first generation immigrant. My family attend mass in the Middle East and etc since long before me or my great great grandparents time. Their church still stands there, thanks be to God. As a matter of fact, my grandfather immigrated to the USA when unfortunate religious fighting broke out in their village and my father and family couldn’t attend mass. My mother’s family ended up immigrating as well.

But like the others, I welcome you to this forum as well. However, I do have some questions. I find it interesting that Muslims would be interested to learning about Catholism and come to the forum.
I am generally curious when I meet muslims on a daily basis, I wonder if they support ISIS and other Islamic extremists. Do you find those actions to match your idea of Islam, which means “submission” and how you were raised?

If we are being truly honest, most friendly Catholics believe God can use you to convert you and you probably believe the same. You will learn quickly that Catholics know this is Truth and I pray you learn to have a more clear understanding of Jesus.

I have some questions about the Qu’ran.

First, why does the Qu’ran not have an accurate description of Jesus’s crucifixion when there is overwhelming evidence of this occasion throughout history and many writings? It’s amazing that the Qu’ran missed that part and it’s the strongest fact we have about Jesus. Even skeptics see the evidence of his sacrifice to us (to you). And yet the Qu’ran was written by a man some 600 years after Jesus — perhaps that is why the Qu’ran is misguided on the subject. I can appreciate that many biblical figure are recognized in your faith but it’s still seen as a newer faith that came about after Jesus which you know is a prophet.

I don’t believe Muslims are bad people, I do believe that the teachings of the Qu’ran are misguided and cause horrible things and behaviors.
Ali Sina said it best: :”My rejection of Islam is not based on the bad deeds of the Muslims but on the bad teachings of its holy book and on the bad deeds of its founder. Many cruelties and heinous acts of violence, perpetrated by Muslims throughout the centuries were inspired by the Quran and the Sunnah (the examples of the prophet).”

Also, it seems your ideal of God and Muhammad thrived on punishment and killing, based on some points I found in the Qu’ran. For example, Muhammad condoned a man killing a pregnant mother and his own unborn child just because he said that she insulted the Prophet! This is in Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4348 by Abdullah Ibn Abbas. There are several other instances to quote from in the Qu’ran I can quote for you.

And for the Catholics who did not know, Islam does not mean “peace” it means “submission” in arabic.
Peace means Salam.
 
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As a Catholic Arab, I agree with you it was a reasonable question and I’m glad you asked it!

If my family faced atrocities at the hand of the teachings of another religion and a “friendly” one comes along and opens himself up to chat, rather than bottle it up, I should be allowed to ask him his views on the matter!

If we spent too much time worrying about what someone will think, even at decent questions to provocative topics we never learn or heal from anything. @RolandThompsonGunner
 
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AlruwhAlquds said:
If we spent too much time worrying about what someone will think, even at decent questions to provocative topics we never learn or heal from anything. @RolandThompsonGunner
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I’m not afraid to talk about these issues or anything, and I have a fair amount of personal experience with Muslim extremists. I’m not naive about this stuff.

I just think asking someone if they support terrorism as soon as they show up is a little needlessly provocative. We ought to assume people don’t hold disgusting, vile beliefs until they give us a reason to think otherwise.
 
Or asking the question will help reaffirm humanity in another person. You can think all you wish, there is another side to it. Do you want someone to who traumatized to stay that way? Or ask if this is so from another member of that religion and perhaps they can share further insight. That question needs to be asked.
 
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I’m not assuming ill intent on @fide part. He doesn’t seem like the type. I’ve disagreed with him before, but he certainly doesn’t come off as mean-spirited.

It just seemed to me that the tone was a little off. Others may disagree. 🤷‍♂️
 
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