W
workingman
Guest
I ask the question why do we have a Saturday Mass? I ask as a curiosity. It just happened that we attended our first Saturday Mass on our sons Baptism. Where did the Mass on a Saturday originate from?
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Z
zab
Guest
If you are asking about the Saturday Vigil Mass for Sunday, I recall that it came about sometime in the late 60’s. Our family used to always go to the Saturday evening Mass before it became the vigil for Sunday. I remember my mother telling us that if we wanted to count the Saturday Vigil Mass for Sunday then we had to go twice on Saturday- That was my mom’s rule not the Church’s rule. We didn’t have a second vehicle and there was no other transportation into town to attend daily Mass the rest of the week. Saturday was the only opportunity for us to attend Mass on another day besides the obigatory Sunday.
Anyway, as I understand it, there are some professions, such as nurses, that require people to work on Sunday so the Vigil Mass gives them the opportunity to attend a Sunday Mass on the evening before.
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
Canon law says that we can meet our obligation to attend Mass by going either on the day itself or the evening before. This is in line with our Jewish heritage where a day begins at sundown rather than at midnight. (Hence the Jewish sabbath begins Friday at sundown.)
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FrDavid96
Guest
In the ancient Jewish calendar (and still today) the next day begins at sunset–when the previous day ends.
In the 1917 code of canon law, Sunday Masses had to be on Sunday morning, however,
Pope Pius XII, in his Apostolic Constitution Christus Dominus (6 January 1953) granted an indult to the local bishops that they could permit Sunday Masses on Saturday evening (starting at 4 PM) but these Masses were only to be attended by those who were unable to attend a Sunday morning Mass (usually because of employment). In other words, the Mass would only “count” for Sunday if one was truly unable to attend Sunday morning.
Since it was up to the individual bishops to either accept the indult or not, these Saturday Masses began in different dioceses at different times. Some began immediately in the 50’s some not until the 80s. That’s why you’ll get a lot of different answers from people as to when this actually started–there is no single answer.
In the 1983 code of canon law, that changed and any Saturday evening Mass became the Sunday Mass–the requirement to “have a good reason” was dropped universally.
Here’s a link to Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter Dies Domini (the Lord’s Day) which explains the current understanding (especially in paragraph 49)
adoremus.org/DiesDomini.html
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
There have always been daily Masses on Saturday. The Saturday evening Mass that is the anticipated Mass for Sunday came about to allow people who had to work on Sundays the ability to get to Mass more often. Medical and emergency people have always had to work on Sundays, but when stores and factories began to be open on Sundays then more and more people started having to work weekend shifts. The Church in her graciousness allowed for the anticipated Masses to give people the opportunity to attend. Fasting rules were relaxed (to 3 hours) at about this same time so that people who did attend this Mass could also receive Holy Communion.
All Sunday Masses are the same (from Saturday evening through Sunday evening), so we can attend whichever Mass we choose and fulfill our Sunday obligation.
All Sunday Masses are the same (from Saturday evening through Sunday evening), so we can attend whichever Mass we choose and fulfill our Sunday obligation.
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Phemie
Guest
I’m confused.
Pope Piux XII’s 1953 exhortation “CHRISTUS DOMINUS Concerning The Discipline To Be Observed With Respect To The Eucharistic Fast” permitted evening Masses for the first time on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation (previously Mass couldn’t be celebrated after noon) but did not say anything about attending on Saturday for Sunday.
Is there a later document?
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gearhead
Guest
But the church near me has a 7:00 p.m. mass on Sunday as well. In wintertime, this is well after sunset. Wouldn’t this count as a Monday rather than Sunday mass, “in line with your Jewish heritage”?
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Phemie
Guest
No, since Canon law says any Mass on the evening before or on the day meets your obligation – IOW you’ve got about 32 hours to meet your obligation.But the church near me has a 7:00 p.m. mass on Sunday as well. In wintertime, this is well after sunset. Wouldn’t this count as a Monday rather than Sunday mass, “in line with your Jewish heritage”?
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
In line with the Jewish interpretation of a day, yest it’s Monday. However this is a case where the Church is giving the widest time possible to meet our obligation to attend Mass so you can go anytime on Sunday evening/night and still have it count for Sunday. I have heard of college campuses where they have a Sunday night Mass at 10pm and that’s just fine.But the church near me has a 7:00 p.m. mass on Sunday as well. In wintertime, this is well after sunset. Wouldn’t this count as a Monday rather than Sunday mass, “in line with your Jewish heritage”?
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gearhead
Guest
Okay… so it’s more “it’s allowed because that’s what canon law says” than “it’s allowed because that’s how the Jews do it”, right?
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Phemie
Guest
Well, we get the tradition from our Jewish heritage. But yes, Canon Law had to allow it. They came to the decision to allow it based on the Jewish practice that is our heritage.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Correct. Cannon law has defined Sunday as the longest day of the week. It goes from sundown Saturday (usually about 5pm) to midnight Sunday. Other days don’t work this way. A usually scheduled 6pm Tuesday Mass is a Tuesday Mass. For example, my parish will schedule evening Masses on Holy Days of obligation. Those Masses count for the day we are celebrating, not the next day.
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Phemie
Guest
But if the Holy Day of Obligation is on Wednesday and you attend Mass on Tuesday evening you have will fulfilled your obligation. It doesn’t matter which Mass is celebrated.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Are you sure? Well, I have never been in that situation at any parish I’ve belonged to. Thankfully, the pastors have always been very generous in scheduling Masses on the actual day.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Right. I misread the footnotes. Actually I referenced the footnotes without checking them. The references come from Dies Domini, parargaph 49 which refers back to the documents of Pius XII.
He did it sometime in the early 1950’s. I’m still looking for the actual document.
In any case, the overall point that the Sat evening Masses go back to the 50s and were permitted in different dioceses at different times (until the new code in 1983) doesn’t change.
Although rule IV in CHRISTUS DOMINUS does answer a question I’ve previously been unable to find–that of the ablutions. Previously, the ablutions were done with both wine and water (which is still an option in the novus ordo), but only at the first Mass of the day. Subsequent Masses the priest had to use only water. That rule IV provides the answer.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Actually it’s both. The Jewish understanding of the Sabbath is that it begins at sunset, and therefore canon law (now) recognizes this as the start of Sunday.
And in the Jewish tradition, the Sabbath is actually longer than any other day because Sabbath begins at sunset, but ends after sunset, when 3 stars are visible.
judaism.about.com/od/sabbathdayshabb2/f/shabbat_times.htm
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Phemie
Guest
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FrDavid96
Guest
Sometimes it makes good sense.
Here are a few examples:
Let’s say a parish always has Tuesday evening Mass (so that whose who work have the opportunity for at least one daily Mass each week). If Wednesday is a Holy Day, it makes sense to keep the Tues evening Mass the way it is (since people have already arranged their schedules to keep that day open for Mass)
If the feast is a Saturday (like this year w/ the Assumption) it makes sense to have a Friday evening Mass so that people can atttend the Assumption Mass without the confusion of an Assumption Mass on Sat evening.
That’s not to say that a parish should not have Mass in the morning or noon or any other time on the actual feast day, it’s just to say that there could be circumstances when the “generous” thing to do would be to have that evening-before Mass.
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Phemie
Guest
Another thing that document did was set the time for an “evening Mass” at 4 p.m. or later.
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daeve
Guest
When I was a kid, there were a lot of people who needed to go to Mass. We had Mass at 6am, 7am, 8am, 10:30am (school children were expected to be at this Mass and we sat together with a nun), then at noon. But there were still people standing all the way up the side aisles and crammed into the vestibule too. We would have people crowding up in the choir loft too. You could barely breathe. They started having Mass on Saturday and I thought it was just because there wasn’t enough room for all the people who wanted to be there.
When we moved, the new parish had a space problem. They built a new school with a gym in about 1950, and a few months later the old church was struck by lightening and burned down. The gym turned into the church. They took the hoops down, but the floor still had the basketball markings because they didn’t expect it to take long to build another church. I was married in the gym in 1976 and a friend was married in the new church in 1979, so it was built sometime in between the two weddings. Meanwhile, the parish was growing and growing with every new subdivision, the school was bursting at the seams, and the priests were saying as many Masses as they were allowed. We started having Mass in the cafeteria of the school too, two of those on Sunday and one on Saturday evening. I just thought it was because there were so many people going to Mass.
And of course, there were always people who had jobs that required them to work on Sundays, and they needed to be able to get to Mass too. They always talked about nurses and firemen, but my dad worked in a factory and he had a different shift every week so sometimes he had a hard time finding a Mass and getting to work. It really helped him.
One other thing that now strikes me as strange was this thing we did with the hosts before Mass. There was a huge bowl of unconsecrated hosts, and a basket at every door. If you were going to receive Communion, you moved a host from the bowl to the basket. I can’t remember if there was some little tongs or if you just picked it up. The hosts were brought up with the gifts at the offertory. I’m sure they had some extra ones too, but all these years later, I’m a little grossed out at all those fingers touching the hosts. I’m sure they had a reason, but yuck.
When we moved, the new parish had a space problem. They built a new school with a gym in about 1950, and a few months later the old church was struck by lightening and burned down. The gym turned into the church. They took the hoops down, but the floor still had the basketball markings because they didn’t expect it to take long to build another church. I was married in the gym in 1976 and a friend was married in the new church in 1979, so it was built sometime in between the two weddings. Meanwhile, the parish was growing and growing with every new subdivision, the school was bursting at the seams, and the priests were saying as many Masses as they were allowed. We started having Mass in the cafeteria of the school too, two of those on Sunday and one on Saturday evening. I just thought it was because there were so many people going to Mass.
And of course, there were always people who had jobs that required them to work on Sundays, and they needed to be able to get to Mass too. They always talked about nurses and firemen, but my dad worked in a factory and he had a different shift every week so sometimes he had a hard time finding a Mass and getting to work. It really helped him.
One other thing that now strikes me as strange was this thing we did with the hosts before Mass. There was a huge bowl of unconsecrated hosts, and a basket at every door. If you were going to receive Communion, you moved a host from the bowl to the basket. I can’t remember if there was some little tongs or if you just picked it up. The hosts were brought up with the gifts at the offertory. I’m sure they had some extra ones too, but all these years later, I’m a little grossed out at all those fingers touching the hosts. I’m sure they had a reason, but yuck.
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