Why "adoration" of the cross instead of "veneration" on Good Friday?

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The OP (not a Dominican! ;)) is still here. I can’t imagine being driven out of the Catholic Church unless something heretical was declared as doctrinal, which I don’t believe the Holy Spirit will allow.

I appreciate the discussion. So, maybe the the liturgical instructions should say “Relative Adoration of the Cross”. And we should say in response to “Behold the wood of the cross…”, “Come let us relatively worship”.

it just seems that the choice of words made by the Church is unnecessarily confusing and vague. I get the argument being made. I will just need to deal with it I guess.
 
Well I for one don’t worship the cross/the wood, I worship Jesus’ - on Good Friday it is the vision of my Saviour upon the cross that I worship. I don’t even venerate the Cross, per se, but I do venerate what it stands for/represents.
 
It is interesting to me that even while we have people here who are unwilling to adore the Cross as prescribed by the Church, I have seen many people who don’t seem to know what they adore.

During the times when the tabernacle is obviously empty (prior to Holy Thursday’s liturgy, and on Good Friday) everyone comes into the church and genuflects… to what???

It makes me so frustrated. Whenever I enter a Catholic church, I am looking around for the tabernacle and sanctuary lamp, the signs that Jesus is present… and these other people just kneel blindly, mechanically.
 
Yes, Elizium23, I agree. I make it a point to not genuflect before entering the pew after the Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday until the end of the Easter Vigil Mass. I only genuflect before the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament - not to an empty tabernacle!!
 
Mount_Carmel said:
Well I for one don’t worship the cross/the wood, I worship Jesus’ - on Good Friday it is the vision of my Saviour upon the cross that I worship. I don’t even venerate the Cross, per se, but I do venerate what it stands for/represents.
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See the above for understanding what the meaning of the rite of the Church is.

The relative adoration passes –to Jesus.

Has been the practice for some 1700 years…

And yes it is to be understood correctly.
 
Elizium23 said:
It is interesting to me that even while we have people here who are unwilling to adore the Cross as prescribed by the Church, I have seen many people who don’t seem to know what they adore.

During the times when the tabernacle is obviously empty (prior to Holy Thursday’s liturgy, and on Good Friday) everyone comes into the church and genuflects… to what???

It makes me so frustrated. Whenever I enter a Catholic church, I am looking around for the tabernacle and sanctuary lamp, the signs that Jesus is present… and these other people just kneel blindly, mechanically.
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+1

I was conscious after Holy Thursday and simply bowed to reverence the altar. Of course, after Good Friday’s celebration I genuflected, right-knee, also consciously, to the Cross that already stood on the altar after the solemn service.
 
wvedec said:
Yes, Elizium23, I agree. I make it a point to not genuflect before entering the pew after the Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday until the end of the Easter Vigil Mass. I only genuflect before the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament - not to an empty tabernacle!!
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When one passes before the Cross during that time - that is when on genuflects during that time -see the up above post on the subject.

Such relative adoration passes to Jesus.
 
From the GIRM the General Instruction of the Roman Missal from the Church:
  1. A genuflection, made by bending the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.
(one can find it on the US Bishop site etc…not time to find the link -got to run)

(and again it passes to Christ see above for various explanations)
 
porthos11 said:
Well, St. Thomas makes it clear that “The Cross is to be worshipped with the adoration of latria.” (III,25,4).

That disproves your first assertion (“we do not give latria to the Cross”). This is correct only insofar as the latria is absolute. This is incorrect where the latria is relative, and in light of III,25,4.
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So does that mean you believe the cross is God? If not then why do you worship it?
 
It seems people are losing the forest amongst the trees here.

If you bow down to worship the pieces of wood that form a cross in your parish with the desire that that wood is you God and savior and someday that wood will welcome you into heaven, then you are truly adoring the cross.

If you qualify this in any way then you are reserving your adoration for God in a different way then the cross.

Indeed it seems proper that people would adore God with the aid of a sacramental like the cross. That kneeling and worshiping at the foot of the cross has nothing to do with the wood, but with the God who died there.

Now if any of you believe that your savior is the wood that makes up your parish cross please step forward and declare that so.

If not then you rightly do not give adoration to the cross in the form of adoration for God.
 
Thank you porthos11, Elizium23, and Bookcat for your detailed responses.

May I ask, if any image of Jesus Christ may rightfully receive (relative) latria, why don’t Catholics genuflect during the procession at the beginning and end of Mass when the processional crucifix passes them? (I have seen only a small handful of people do this at EF Masses and exactly zero people do this at OF Masses.)
 
Never ever heard it referred to as Adoration of the Cross.
It’s always VENERATION around here.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
Thank you porthos11, Elizium23, and Bookcat for your detailed responses.

May I ask, if any image of Jesus Christ may rightfully receive (relative) latria, why don’t Catholics genuflect during the procession at the beginning and end of Mass when the processional crucifix passes them? (I have seen only a small handful of people do this at EF Masses and exactly zero people do this at OF Masses.)
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That, I do not really know. I guess custom plays a large role in it. From what I could tell, genuflections are done only to the Blessed Sacrament and to the Cross. I also guess rubrics have ingrained a force of habit, and I would suppose a processional cross does not call for genuflection at that time.

But historically, say for example, during the blessing of a crucifix for devotional use, a genuflection had been traditionally performed after the sacramental was blessed, again by virtue of its being a crucifix.

So, yeah, I don’t have a good answer for the inconsistency. Maybe other posters can chime in.
 
Elizium23 said:
It is interesting to me that even while we have people here who are unwilling to adore the Cross as prescribed by the Church, I have seen many people who don’t seem to know what they adore.

During the times when the tabernacle is obviously empty (prior to Holy Thursday’s liturgy, and on Good Friday) everyone comes into the church and genuflects… to what???

It makes me so frustrated. Whenever I enter a Catholic church, I am looking around for the tabernacle and sanctuary lamp, the signs that Jesus is present… and these other people just kneel blindly, mechanically.
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They are doing so with all charity…it shouldn’t frustrate you, because that could be an indication of a lack of humility, like the Pharisee looking towards heaven, claiming that he was not like the sinful tax collector.
 
See the Liturgy. See the New translation of the Missal. See history. See the Teaching of the Church down through the ages. But understand too what we have been saying here -to understand the terms used.
From the Rite for the Adoration of the Cross on Good Friday:

“Behold the wood of the Cross one which hung the salvation of the world.”

R: Come let us adore or Venite Adoremus

(Daily Roman Misssal from MTF and Scepter Publishers- current translation).

And such is relative adoration.

As Nicea notes it passes to he whom it represents.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
why don’t Catholics genuflect during the procession at the beginning and end of Mass when the processional crucifix passes them?
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The liturgical genuflection before the Cross - is during that very particular time of the Liturgical year - the time when we focus intensely on the Passion of Our Lord.

Think too - we normally bow at the Creed at the incarnation -but on the Annunciation of the Lord and at Christmas - we do more -going to the knee-again due to particular liturgical time.
 
From the GIRM the General Instruction of the Roman Missal from the Church:
  1. A genuflection, made by bending the right knee to the ground, signifies adoration, and therefore it is reserved for the Most Blessed Sacrament, as well as for the Holy Cross from the solemn adoration during the liturgical celebration on Good Friday until the beginning of the Easter Vigil.
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/

(and again it passes to Christ see above for various explanations)
 
It also just hit me too, that we genuflect during the Way of the Cross. That would probably have been towards the Cross placed at every Station (there is the occasional misconception that the pictures are the essential elements of the Stations; they are not. Each station must have a Cross, and that’s the essential part).
 
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