Why all the annulments?

[JimG]

Again, in all kindness, I think this shows a misunderstanding of the petition process. One does not petition BECAUSE one believes a marriage to have been invalid. One petitions the Church to look into the matter. I truly had no idea of the validity or invalidity of my marriage when I petitioned. I simply asked the Church to investigate. I wanted to know if I was going to live the rest of my life as a chaste, separated married person, or as a chaste single person.

I still have not seen numbers on this thread that show the number of granted nullity decrees in the US is out of line. The OP started with raw numbers, which need to be understood as percentages of total American Catholics and as percentages of petitions granted if we are to make any meaningful comparisons. How do we know 50k annulments is too much? The Church granted those annulments…do we know better than the Church? Better than the Tribunals of priests and canon lawyers who know the specifics of each case when we DO NOT?

More semantics here, but important. A marriage is never “nullifiable”. A marriage is either found to have been invalid from the beginning, or it is found to be valid. The Church does not “nullify” marriages. Is it a little ironic that the person on this thread who is divorced understands that the most clearly? I am 100% on board with the Church’s teaching on the indissolubility of marriage.

Sorry, I used the word “nullifiable” as a shortcut. Of course no true marriage is nullifiable. It seems though that many tribunals may view all marriages as “potentially null.” That is, examine any marriage closely enough, and one is sure to find reasons which may lead one to conclude nullity from the beginning. That just doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in the institution of marriage.

And of course, while an application to the tribunal is entirely voluntary, it may not be welcomed by the respondent. I don’t know how many decisions of nullity are appealed by a respondent, probably not many. At least in the Kennedy case the original decision was found to have been incorrectly decided.

I wish there were better statistics, but the situation in the United States certainly seems anomalous, both historically and geographically.

If Henry VIII’s marriage had been submitted to an American tribunal, perhaps history would have turned out somewhat differently.

 

[cecilia97]

Sorry, I used the word “nullifiable” as a shortcut. Of course no true marriage is nullifiable. It seems though that many tribunals may view all marriages as “potentially null.” That is, examine any marriage closely enough, and one is sure to find reasons which may lead one to conclude nullity from the beginning. That just doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence in the institution of marriage.

And of course, while an application to the tribunal is entirely voluntary, it may not be welcomed by the respondent. I don’t know how many decisions of nullity are appealed by a respondent, probably not many. At least in the Kennedy case the original decision was found to have been incorrectly decided.

I wish there were better statistics, but the situation in the United States certainly seems anomalous, both historically and geographically.
**
If Henry VIII’s marriage had been submitted to an American tribunal, perhaps history would have turned out somewhat differently**.

That’s not really a fair comparison. It was widely known that Henry wanted to get out of one marriage in order to enter another…with his mistress. Henry’s case does not apply to any serious discussion of American Tribunals in our age of no-fault divorce.

 

[mamaslo]

There is also a secular culture now that due to premarital sex, cohabitation, and contraception lead to a poor formation of today’s generation towards the vocation of marriage. Yet our pre-Cana programs have not caught up with it. Want to get married - meet with your deacon/priest for six months in most parishes. Want to become a priest, religious, or even have a secular vocation - 2-4 year discernment period (not including studies for the priest.) They are both vocations. Imagine if we required 2-4 year formation periods for a couple looking to get married?

that sounds awesome! not sure about 4 years, unless they include more in the high school years. I truly believe that if more people knew that marriage has a liturgy, and it is beautiful and the act of marriage is worship to God, then oh my why would you want anything less?

Instead, we jump the gun because we are clueless and don’t listen to our heart of hearts. God’s DNA from the very beginning, that we want to be loved and to love and that is our goal . Why would you want to settle?

 

[joanofarc2008]

that sounds awesome! not sure about 4 years, unless they include more in the high school years. I truly believe that if more people knew that marriage has a liturgy, and it is beautiful and the act of marriage is worship to God, then oh my why would you want anything less?

Instead, we jump the gun because we are clueless and don’t listen to our heart of hearts. God’s DNA from the very beginning, that we want to be loved and to love and that is our goal . Why would you want to settle?

What I am saying is that due to poor formation because of the way our secular culture is and the way most of our generation has bought into it most no longer know the part of your statement that you have so eloquently written and I have highlighted in red. God bless you.

 

[Bluegoat]

Who would have thought it would be so hard to get married for real.

 

[Vico]

Just a correction, disparity of cult/worship is the same thing, yes it requires a dispensation from the Bishop but I’ve never seen one refused in my 13 years of dealing with them at the parish level and we had many marriages between our parishioners and Pentecostals & Salvation Army members.

Regular mixed-marriages to baptized non-Catholics requires permission and in many dioceses the Bishop has delegated the granting of that permission to the priest preparing the couple. Even in 1975, when I married a member of the United Church of Canada, there was never a doubt that the dispensation I sought would be granted.

Oops, right, as you described, the two are:

Disparity of cult (Disparitas Cultus) requiring a dispensation usually ad cautela (as a precaution)

and

Mixed religion (mixta religio) requiring permission, but formerly requiring a dispensation.

They will sometimes both be given in a retroactive validation.

 

[mamaslo]

What I am saying is that due to poor formation because of the way our secular culture is and the way most of our generation has bought into it most no longer know the part of your statement that you have so eloquently written and I have highlighted in red. God bless you.

Well you know some of my story, I have been reading. The catechism is a good place to start, but Love and Responsibility was awesome. Now…I am reading JP2s TOB and I am having trouble getting started but have already gotten some of the understanding.

I also read Christopher Wests new book based on the talks JP2 didn’t give publicly and he helps too. I didn’t know or even sort of know until I started reading. The church’s definition of marriage is just beautiful. There are reasons for everything we do as Catholics and the more you read the more you understand they really do have the keys to the kingdom. Everything has a liturgy…everything. Simply put, if God can’t be the third person in the union…at any time you have one, even married, then you shouldn’t do it, it is then an act of idolatry and not worship to God. (sorry to be so strong on this forum and I am not condeming anyone, i have my own past mind you.)

So why so many annulments…Ms Joanofarc2008 has a very fine point. It’s not just about chastity or can I do this or that, it’s about proper worship with your whole body…as a gift to God. Folks just don’t know this…my parents didn’t know either so I think we needed JP2s writings because the Catechism doesn’t tell us all the details but it is a good place to start.

 

[Vico]

that sounds awesome! not sure about 4 years, unless they include more in the high school years. I truly believe that if more people knew that marriage has a liturgy, and it is beautiful and the act of marriage is worship to God, then oh my why would you want anything less?

Instead, we jump the gun because we are clueless and don’t listen to our heart of hearts. God’s DNA from the very beginning, that we want to be loved and to love and that is our goal . Why would you want to settle?

Rite of Marriage During Mass
Ordo Celebrandi Matrimonium Intra Missam

catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/TextContents/Index/4/SubIndex/67/TextIndex/8

 

[mamaslo]

Rite of Marriage During Mass
Ordo Celebrandi Matrimonium Intra Missam

catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/TextContents/Index/4/SubIndex/67/TextIndex/8

While this is good and true…not exactly the liturgy I meant. There is a liturgy in private…The couple reaches up to God and God answers with His love. He must be the center of everything in our lives. It is a liturgy that completes our fallen human love and turns it into Gods perfect love. (and maybe by the time we are 80 years old, we should be pretty holy folks if we stay on the path )