Why all the fuss about clapping, cheering, etc at Mass?

[tomch]

I’m a recent convert. I used to be a “quasi-charismatic Baptist,” and yes, we did have dancing, clapping and cheering in some of our services. So I’m kinda used to it.

I was following another post where someone was ranting about holding hands during the “Our Father”. They didn’t think that the hand-holding was appropriate as per “the rules” of worship.

Okay, I’ve never appreciated the “dancing”, but I have no problem with the cheering, clapping and hand-holding. I think they are unifying. I’m a bit confused as to what the fuss is all about. Seems like everyone is really up in arms about this stuff!

Is it WRONG to clap and cheer and (cough… cough…) dance during a service? Or to hold hands when we pray the “Our Father?” Maybe I’m so accustomed to “non-liturgical, unorthodox” worship that I don’t know any better. Are these things that these worshipers should be confessing? Were such expressions frowned upon in the early church?

This is a legitimate question from a new Catholic, so please don’t take offense. I guess I’m not quite understanding why there’s so much consternation about a different “flavor” service.

Thanks!

 

[Chancellare]

I’m a recent convert. I used to be a “quasi-charismatic Baptist,” and yes, we did have dancing, clapping and cheering in some of our services. So I’m kinda used to it.

I was following another post where someone was ranting about holding hands during the “Our Father”. They didn’t think that the hand-holding was appropriate as per “the rules” of worship.

Okay, I’ve never appreciated the “dancing”, but I have no problem with the cheering, clapping and hand-holding. I think they are unifying. I’m a bit confused as to what the fuss is all about. Seems like everyone is really up in arms about this stuff!

Is it WRONG to clap and cheer and (cough… cough…) dance during a service? Or to hold hands when we pray the “Our Father?” Maybe I’m so accustomed to “non-liturgical, unorthodox” worship that I don’t know any better. Are these things that these worshipers should be confessing? Were such expressions frowned upon in the early church?

This is a legitimate question from a new Catholic, so please don’t take offense. I guess I’m not quite understanding why there’s so much consternation about a different “flavor” service.

Thanks!

I hope you will not feel pushed to a corner when I tell you that the Order of the Mass is like a uniform programme of activities that should be followed by all catholic faithfuls. As such nobody is supposed to create his own ‘programme’.

It just so happened that there is no clapping or cheering there. The Mass is already full of activities by itself that we should not feel sad if there are no clapping or dancing or sheering there.

 

[LilyM]

I hope you will not feel pushed to a corner when I tell you that the Order of the Mass is like a uniform programme of activities that should be followed by all catholic faithfuls. As such nobody is supposed to create his own ‘programme’.

It just so happened that there is no clapping or cheering there. The Mass is already full of activities by itself that we should not feel sad if there are no clapping or dancing or sheering there.

To put it a slightly different way … Catholic worship is a community act, but not just the community gathered in the particular church on the particular Sunday. The prayers of the Mass talk about the fact that ‘from East to West A perfect offering (not numerous separate ones) may be made’

Remember this is a church that has spread right througout the world, and we also pride ourselves on being able to trace lots of things we do (including all parts of the Mass, and many of it prayers even) back to the first century of Christianity.

And we believe in continuity with all the saints who have gone before us.

So yeah, our Masses are fairly well organised … less so now than back in the day when all Masses were in Latin - then you could almost be guaranteed to hear and see exactly the same thing in every Catholic Church across the globe.

Doesn’t mean it’s a sin to clap, cheer or dance, but it goes against the spirit of what our liturgy is supposed to be.

 

[Servulus]

Just as a cross has two dimensions - the vertical and the horizontal - so does the Mass. The vertical dimension represents our relationship to God and our interaction with Him. The horizontal dimension represents our relationship and interaction with each other. Both are necessary, but not necessarily equally so. The vertical dimension of a cross is proportionately larger than the horizontal, else it would seem “out of balance”. In prescribing the actions proper to the Mass, the Church has specified the proportions of these two dimensions.
The activities you mention tend to exaggerate the horizontal dimension, and thus skew the proportion. Books could (and have) been written about why people are inclined to do this. For now, let’s just say that the Church knew what she was doing in setting certain limits for liturgy.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dorothy]

I’m a recent convert. I used to be a “quasi-charismatic Baptist,” and yes, we did have dancing, clapping and cheering in some of our services. So I’m kinda used to it.

I was following another post where someone was ranting about holding hands during the “Our Father”. They didn’t think that the hand-holding was appropriate as per “the rules” of worship.

Okay, I’ve never appreciated the “dancing”, but I have no problem with the cheering, clapping and hand-holding. I think they are unifying. I’m a bit confused as to what the fuss is all about. Seems like everyone is really up in arms about this stuff!

Is it WRONG to clap and cheer and (cough… cough…) dance during a service? Or to hold hands when we pray the “Our Father?” Maybe I’m so accustomed to “non-liturgical, unorthodox” worship that I don’t know any better. Are these things that these worshipers should be confessing? Were such expressions frowned upon in the early church?

This is a legitimate question from a new Catholic, so please don’t take offense. I guess I’m not quite understanding why there’s so much consternation about a different “flavor” service.

Thanks!

There are times for fellowship after the Mass, and at other church meetings.

Over time, the Mass becomes a deeply interior act of worship for many…and rightly so. Dancing and clapping would only distract from the communication and meditation going on between an individual and the Lord, which is most beneficial for the Body of Christ.

 

[Margita]

This is a legitimate question from a new Catholic, so please don’t take offense. I guess I’m not quite understanding why there’s so much consternation about a different “flavor” service.

Thanks!

Yes, it is a legitimate question and we all should stop and think, when we worship in our community, whether we do not concentrate more on the FORM of worship than on the ACT of worshipping itself.
When you exaggerate the form of worship, it becomes a distraction from the only thing that is needful: worship itself. When worship is overgarnished it is not for God any more, but for the people.

(I confess I am a minimalist when it comes to liturgy - I embrace everything ordered by the Church, but I am more comfortable at a silent mass for example - I find that even singing can be disrupting. Perhaps because I like to sing and I am easily enamored in my own voice )

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Our Lord is present in the Tabernacle and I am not familiar with Baptist services. I remember one day not too long ago the second graders at the daily school Mass sang a song after Mass as they were to receive First Communion soon and everyone clapped after they were done. Even the teachers and the Sisters…and Father reminded everyone very FIRMLY that the Church is not a music hall and we do not clap in Church…ever!

:heart:Blyss

 

[LilyM]

(I confess I am a minimalist when it comes to liturgy - I embrace everything ordered by the Church, but I am more comfortable at a silent mass for example - I find that even singing can be disrupting. Perhaps because I like to sing and I am easily enamored in my own voice )

Oh I am absolutely the same, most of the time. Not because I enjoy singing too much, but the opposite. I find it much easier to enter deeply into the spirit of the Mass without the distraction of poorly chosen or presented music.

 

[dylanschrader]

I recommend reading The Spirit of the Liturgy by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (His Holiness) or even The Spirit of the Liturgy by Guardini if you want to tackle it . These (as well as the liturgical documents of the Church) explain the nature of the liturgy.

The Latin Rite of the Catholic Church tends to have a noble reservation to its manner of expression.

 

[lavalamp]

I’m a recent convert. I used to be a “quasi-charismatic Baptist,” and yes, we did have dancing, clapping and cheering in some of our services. So I’m kinda used to it.

I was following another post where someone was ranting about holding hands during the “Our Father”. They didn’t think that the hand-holding was appropriate as per “the rules” of worship.

This is true, if an action is not in the norms for the Mass, we have no permission to do it, ie we can’t just add features to the Mass because “it doesn’t say we can’t”.

Okay, I’ve never appreciated the “dancing”, but I have no problem with the cheering, clapping and hand-holding. I think they are unifying. I’m a bit confused as to what the fuss is all about. Seems like everyone is really up in arms about this stuff!

I agree that these can be unifying, but some don’t agree and feel that they are distracting, irreverent, or create a false atmosphere where if one doesn’t express themselves exuberantly, they are not fitting in. Some of the fuss is people having these feelings, some is just a result of resistance to novelty.

Is it WRONG to clap and cheer and (cough… cough…) dance during a service? Or to hold hands when we pray the “Our Father?” Maybe I’m so accustomed to “non-liturgical, unorthodox” worship that I don’t know any better. Are these things that these worshipers should be confessing? Were such expressions frowned upon in the early church?

Depends what you mean by wrong: these actions are not sinful per se unless by performing them you disobey a directive of your bishop. I’m not sure the extent the laity is responsible for following the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, but I don’t think it is sinful. The style of worship is to some extent dependent on the local customs: in Africa, liturgies are full of dancing, singing, and clapping because this is such an integral part of their culture.

This is a legitimate question from a new Catholic, so please don’t take offense. I guess I’m not quite understanding why there’s so much consternation about a different “flavor” service.

Thanks!

Part of the reason feathers are ruffled is that this is conflates taste (about which everyone has a different opinion) and faith/Church unity (which must remain one).

I see two dangers:

1 Regulating every bit the Mass to death so it is exactly the same everywhere so it feels more like a chore or trying to fill out some form correctly. The Mass is after all a celebration, so we should rejoice and be glad.

2 turning the Mass into a rock concert/ therapy session that only serves to help people feel warm and fuzzy and good about themselves. The Mass is after all a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ and a reception of his very self in Communion and his Word in scripture, so we should be very reverent and aware of the reality of Christ’s presence.

Hope this helps, you are in my prayers:thumbsup:

 

[buffalo]

“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.” - Pope Benedict XVI - Spirit of the Liturgy

 

[scylla]

The reason we don’t clap, dance or cheer is because the Mass is a Sacrifice where we consume the Eucharist accepting God’s love. As such we are participating in the one Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross at Calvary. Since that extends through time is would be disrespectful to be doing something like that while we are focusing on what Jesus did for us.

It is like we present the Sacrifice of Jesus on the cross then Sister does the boogie woogie in front of Jesus on the Cross while we clap. This only happens when we forget that the reason we are there is for the one Sacrifice of Jesus that far exceeds anything we can do for God.

Many parishes have turned the Mass into just a social service and in a social gathering it is ok to clap for one another or dance or cheer, yet we are at Mass to worship God. This doesn’t mean that we don’t worship as a community but unified and fully participating in worship. When we turn our focus to one person except for the Priest representing Christ we are now not unified in worship and are making it into an individual thing.

Before Mass and after Mass is when we fellowship and eat coffee and donuts, clap, dance, party, and entertain ourselves.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[VociMike]

Because it is the antithesis of the “sober inebriation” which the Church tells us should be the state in which we celebrate the Mass.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’m a recent convert. I used to be a “quasi-charismatic Baptist,” and yes, we did have dancing, clapping and cheering in some of our services. So I’m kinda used to it.

I was following another post where someone was ranting about holding hands during the “Our Father”. They didn’t think that the hand-holding was appropriate as per “the rules” of worship.

Okay, I’ve never appreciated the “dancing”, but I have no problem with the cheering, clapping and hand-holding. I think they are unifying. I’m a bit confused as to what the fuss is all about. Seems like everyone is really up in arms about this stuff!

Is it WRONG to clap and cheer and (cough… cough…) dance during a service? Or to hold hands when we pray the “Our Father?” Maybe I’m so accustomed to “non-liturgical, unorthodox” worship that I don’t know any better. Are these things that these worshipers should be confessing? Were such expressions frowned upon in the early church?

This is a legitimate question from a new Catholic, so please don’t take offense. I guess I’m not quite understanding why there’s so much consternation about a different “flavor” service.

Thanks!

“Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and has been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.”

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

 

[Trelow]

Is it WRONG to clap and cheer and (cough… cough…) dance during a service? Or to hold hands when we pray the “Our Father?” Maybe I’m so accustomed to “non-liturgical, unorthodox” worship that I don’t know any better. Are these things that these worshipers should be confessing? Were such expressions frowned upon in the early church?

Such expressions turn ourselves inward to how we “feel”. We loose sight that the mass is for worship of God. One can become so enthralled in the emotion of this form of praise that the become inoculated a bit, and before long, what they are getting isn’t enough. They seek out larger, more energetic communities. They loose sight of the importance of coming together in Jesus’ name. It’s not about me. It’s about Him.

Worship always entails sacrifice, never is there worship in the OT without the burning of grain or flesh, or pouring out of libations. Here, in the mass, it is perfected. No longer does merely fruit of the earth suffice, but the flesh and blood of God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Time stops. We sit at the foot of the cross. The prophets of old speak to us, the apostles read their letters to us, and Jesus himself shares the gospel message.

Then we are seated around the table and none other than Jesus takes our offerings of bread and wine, looks up to Our Father in heaven and prays over them. We precede as a virgin on her wedding day, to the foot of the altar, where we accept the Most Holy Lord Jesus Christ into our bodies, we consume Him, as the Holy Spirit consumes us. We are all joined in this mystical communion, all the faithful on earth, purgatory, and heaven.

The Jesus sends us forth to go, and make disciples of all nations. But before we do, we stop in the parish hall and eat pancakes that the Knights have prepared for us.

 

[tomch]

Thank you so much for the clarification! You’ve all brought up very, very good points.

I’d like to mention one very positive thing that I’ve noticed in the change from the Baptist faith to the Catholic faith…

I’m certainly not trying to knock the Baptists, but I’ve noticed a lot more humility in the Catholic Masses. Maybe it’s due in part to the absence of clapping, cheering, etc. Also, it seems like there’s a lot less opportunity for individuals to “show off.” The Catholic Mass is very clearly not geared for entertainment purposes. I appreciate that very much.

Okay… but one thing that I really miss about the Baptist services is that they really SING!! I wish I could find a Catholic church that sings like the Protestants, but that’s another thread…

 

[fjacks]

First of all, welcome to the catholic church! Glad you are here.

Expressions of enthusiasm during Mass are found distressing by some catholics. They believe that their own experience and understanding of the Mass is the correct one and that it should be shared by all catholics throughout the world. I attended a congress of charismatic catholics in Rome some 30 years ago. The Masses were lively and included clapping and joining of hands. There were cardinals, bishops, and priests present and they all seemed quite happy with the celebration.

During the papacy of John Paul II, he conducted huge Masses in places all over the world. In many places there were expressions of enthusiasm including liturgical dance. The Pope seemed uplifted by it all.

About thirty years ago, a custom of joining hands during the Lord’s prayer was begun in countless parishes across the US. It was an obvious sign of unity as people prayed not “my” Father but Our Father. A few years ago, a movement to oppose this practice was begun. Some priests alleged that “the Vatican” wanted catholics to lift their hands in a gesture similar to that of the priest rather than hold hands. In point of fact, the Vatican said no such thing. The American bishops considered a similar move, but it was rejected. Despite this you are likely to run into catholics who describe themselves as “orthodox” who will be happy to tell you the “right” way to celebrate and behave at Mass.

I’ve used the word catholic throughout this post with a small “c”. It has a small c in the creed we profess on Sunday because it is not the “brand name” of our church but a word which describes an essential note of the church, namely “universality”. Our church embraces all kinds of piety and beliefs within the framework of our teaching and tradition.

Hope this helps. I have been a very happy pastor for the last 34 years.

 

[Walking_Home]

First of all, welcome to the catholic church! Glad you are here.

Expressions of enthusiasm during Mass are found distressing by some catholics. They believe that their own experience and understanding of the Mass is the correct one and that it should be shared by all catholics throughout the world. I attended a congress of charismatic catholics in Rome some 30 years ago. The Masses were lively and included clapping and joining of hands. There were cardinals, bishops, and priests present and they all seemed quite happy with the celebration.

During the papacy of John Paul II, he conducted huge Masses in places all over the world. In many places there were expressions of enthusiasm including liturgical dance. The Pope seemed uplifted by it all.

About thirty years ago, a custom of joining hands during the Lord’s prayer was begun in countless parishes across the US. It was an obvious sign of unity as people prayed not “my” Father but Our Father. A few years ago, a movement to oppose this practice was begun. Some priests alleged that “the Vatican” wanted catholics to lift their hands in a gesture similar to that of the priest rather than hold hands. In point of fact, the Vatican said no such thing. The American bishops considered a similar move, but it was rejected. Despite this you are likely to run into catholics who describe themselves as “orthodox” who will be happy to tell you the “right” way to celebrate and behave at Mass.

I’ve used the word catholic throughout this post with a small “c”. It has a small c in the creed we profess on Sunday because it is not the “brand name” of our church but a word which describes an essential note of the church, namely “universality”. Our church embraces all kinds of piety and beliefs within the framework of our teaching and tradition.

Hope this helps. I have been a very happy pastor for the last 34 years.

---

fjacks-----meet Card. Arinze:

adoremus.org/1003Arinze.html

So all those that want to entertain us – after Mass, let us go to the parish hall and then you can dance. And then we clap. But when we come to Mass we don’t come to clap. We don’t come to watch people, to admire people. We want to adore God, to thank Him, to ask Him pardon for our sins, and to ask Him for what we need.

Why make the people of God suffer so much? Haven’t we enough problems already? Only Sunday, one hour, they come to adore God. And you bring a dance! Are you so poor you have nothing else to bring us? Shame on you! That’s how I feel about it.

Somebody can say, “but the pope visited this county and the people danced”. A moment: Did the pope arrange it? Poor Holy Father – he comes, the people arranged. He does not know what they arranged. And somebody introduces something funny – is the pope responsible for that? Does that mean it is now approved? Did they put in on the table of the Congregation for Divine Worship? We would throw it out! If people want to dance, they know where to go.

 

[fjacks]

I’ve met and spoken with Cardinal Arinze and found him a truly holy and delightful man. He’s certainly entitled to the views which he expressed, but they certainly do not constitute an official point of view. He is a humble man who knows well the limits of his office. He, personally, equates adoration and reverence with some kind of quiet and reserved demeanor. There’s no shortage of that in most places where Mass is celebrated. What is often missing at Mass, in my view, is a sense of fervor and enthusiasm. Though these things may be manifested in differing ways, they are consistent with rythmic clapping during certain spirituals.

Cheering and hooting have no place in the celebration of Mass, but then who sees those things but rarely?

Fr. Jack

 

[VociMike]

Cheering and hooting have no place in the celebration of Mass, but then who sees those things but rarely?

Why not? After all, a wise man once told us “Expressions of enthusiasm during Mass are found distressing by some catholics. They believe that their own experience and understanding of the Mass is the correct one and that it should be shared by all catholics throughout the world.”