Why am I embarrassed to be poor?

[Bonnie]

This is an interesting conversation. We all seem to have different ideas of being poor - based on how we grew up. I’m not the least bit ashamed of being poor, but I sure wouldn’t mind being rich for while. Rich isn’t better than poor, but it’s a darn sight more comfortable. Which is why I buy the occasional lottery ticket.

 

[pragmatist91]

Well just be happy that you are in Finland, a nation with a much more generous welfare safety net than the US. I’m in the US and I will tell you firsthand that it’s pretty bad over here if you are poor. My family’s house is going into foreclosure. For now, the legal process is going pretty slow but I’m still wondering where I will live once my time is up here.

In the US especially, people have heavily misguided and outdated notions that poverty is the individual’s fault. In some cases, poverty is the direct result of poor life choices. But in many cases, poverty is caused by bad luck and lack of opportunity.

 

[Gertabelle]

Well just be happy that you are in Finland, a nation with a much more generous welfare safety net than the US. I’m in the US and I will tell you firsthand that it’s pretty bad over here if you are poor. My family’s house is going into foreclosure. For now, the legal process is going pretty slow but I’m still wondering where I will live once my time is up here.

In the US especially, people have heavily misguided and outdated notions that poverty is the individual’s fault. In some cases, poverty is the direct result of poor life choices. But in many cases, poverty is caused by bad luck and lack of opportunity.

This is a very true statement!

And I will keep you in my prayers during this horribly difficult time.

 

[Memaw]

This is an interesting conversation. We all seem to have different ideas of being poor - based on how we grew up. I’m not the least bit ashamed of being poor, but I sure wouldn’t mind being rich for while. Rich isn’t better than poor, but it’s a darn sight more comfortable. Which is why I buy the occasional lottery ticket.

Being “poor” and living in poverty, are two different things. Event those who are poor, can help those in poverty somewhat. God Bless, Memaw

 

[mikekle]

This is an interesting conversation. We all seem to have different ideas of being poor - based on how we grew up. I’m not the least bit ashamed of being poor, but I sure wouldn’t mind being rich for while. Rich isn’t better than poor, but it’s a darn sight more comfortable. Which is why I buy the occasional lottery ticket.

Not to mention, how many people/ charities could be helped if someone like this won the lottery, its kind of strange God doesnt bless these kinds of people with winning…seems like most winners I see, go for the material items versus helping others, if its true God doesnt care about money, it sure appears he does.

I went to school with a girl, whose father has won the big lottery 3 times within about 25 yrs, he started a huge auto body company, but after winning, the entire family slowly stopped attending mass as frequently.

I buy a ticket twice a week as well, its worth $4. for a chance at $80 million +.

I remember reading an article a long time ago, gave some curious facts, anyone recognize this?

98% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a stove, refrigerator, microwave.

95% of ‘poor’ people in the US have air conditioning and heat

92% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a TV, cable tv.

It went on down a long list like this, comparing ‘poor’ to what being really poor means, was very interesting, I wish I could remember where I read it.

 

[Memaw]

Not to mention, how many people/ charities could be helped if someone like this won the lottery, its kind of strange God doesnt bless these kinds of people with winning…seems like most winners I see, go for the material items versus helping others, if its true God doesnt care about money, it sure appears he does.

I went to school with a girl, whose father has won the big lottery 3 times within about 25 yrs, he started a huge auto body company, but after winning, the entire family slowly stopped attending mass as frequently.

I buy a ticket twice a week as well, its worth $4. for a chance at $80 million +.

I remember reading an article a long time ago, gave some curious facts, anyone recognize this?

98% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a stove, refrigerator, microwave.

95% of ‘poor’ people in the US have air conditioning and heat

92% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a TV, cable tv.

It went on down a long list like this, comparing ‘poor’ to what being really poor means, was very interesting, I wish I could remember where I read it.

Like I said, there is a big difference between being “poor” and living in poverty. God Bless, Memaw

 

[AttendeDomine]

Lest we forget, poverty is a natural evil.

There’s not something about poverty that just should make us absolutely overjoyed and feeling triumphant. If someone thinks of us as poor, we are aware that they consider us to be inflicted with a certain type of suffering. They might even think that we’re uncultured, poorly educated, barely employable, and many other things to boot. (Isn’t that terrifying?! )

But the short answer to the question: I bet that you’re embarrassed to be poor because, like me, you’ve not yet mortified the desire for human respect and vainglory.

I’m not poor—in fact, my family is very comfortable—but I do drive a beat up car, and I often wear the same clothes. I think a lot of people might well think I’m poor if they ever thought about it, and I admit I also feel a bit of embarrassment at times.

 

[fisherman_carl]

I am better off than many people in the world but by western standards I’m poor. WHY am I embarrassed about it though? I mean in Mary’s Canticle she says how God has sent away the rich with nothing. In the Beautitudes Jesus says blessed are the poor…

Do I feel weird about it because society makes me feel bad about being poor? I generally am fine and accepting of my financial position but I know I could work on some of my feelings.

Just wondering…

Kat

Why do you think you are poor? Why do you think you are embarrassed?

Why desire poverty? Why desire riches? Only desire God.

Some people take comfort in poverty. Others in riches. Best is to take comfort in God. Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these other things will be added.

Bessed are the poor in spirit because they recognize their need for God.

 

[phantom87]

I’d say because in the West we focus on money , and when you don’t have it it’s a sign of failure … I was the same way till I came to the conclusion you know what what ? It doesn’t change me , by it I mean not having money doesn’t change me

 

[St_Francis]

Not to mention, how many people/ charities could be helped if someone like this won the lottery, its kind of strange God doesnt bless these kinds of people with winning…seems like most winners I see, go for the material items versus helping others, if its true God doesnt care about money, it sure appears he does.

I went to school with a girl, whose father has won the big lottery 3 times within about 25 yrs, he started a huge auto body company, but after winning, the entire family slowly stopped attending mass as frequently.

I buy a ticket twice a week as well, its worth $4. for a chance at $80 million +.

I remember reading an article a long time ago, gave some curious facts, anyone recognize this?

98% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a stove, refrigerator, microwave.

95% of ‘poor’ people in the US have air conditioning and heat

92% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a TV, cable tv.

It went on down a long list like this, comparing ‘poor’ to what being really poor means, was very interesting, I wish I could remember where I read it.

This list from (iirc) the Heritage Foundation is interesting to me. On the one hand, poor people today often have help with rent, Section 8, and as a result, live in houses that come with some of these things. Most of the rest can be obtained from a thrift shop for $10 or $15 (ask me hiw I know ). So to me it is not a sign of lack of poverty, esp since sometimes they may even be gifts!

As to heat, I am not sure that people are allowed to live in houses without heat anymore, esp in cold areas. So…

But there is the comparison against people who live in poverty in poor nations, like Haiti, or the people who live in the garbage dumps in Brazil.

Overall, I don’t really like the list because it makes it sound like poor people in the US are living high on the hog, when in actuality all this goid stuff they own might be from before a disaster which destroyed them economically.

 

[fisherman_carl]

Also that passage that says “He has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away”, if you look at the context it describes what it is talking about.

“He has shown strength with his arm,
he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts,
he has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree;
he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away.”

Here, Mary is saying that those who are prideful, exalted, and rich are cast down, while those who are lowly, humble, and poor are exalted. This is also reflected in the beatitudes where it says, “Blessed is the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”. The poor in spirit are not necessarily those who are in poverty. Rather, they are the humble who recognize their need for God. They are not too proud to bow to God or recognize their need for him. And, Mary here has in mind as the poor who are exalted as being God’s servant Israel, for she is exclaiming that God has not forgotten his people and has sent them the Messiah whom she herself bears.

“He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy, as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.”

 

[signit]

Not to mention, how many people/ charities could be helped if someone like this won the lottery, its kind of strange God doesnt bless these kinds of people with winning…seems like most winners I see, go for the material items versus helping others, if its true God doesnt care about money, it sure appears he does.

I went to school with a girl, whose father has won the big lottery 3 times within about 25 yrs, he started a huge auto body company, but after winning, the entire family slowly stopped attending mass as frequently.

I buy a ticket twice a week as well, its worth $4. for a chance at $80 million +.

I remember reading an article a long time ago, gave some curious facts, anyone recognize this?

98% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a stove, refrigerator, microwave.

95% of ‘poor’ people in the US have air conditioning and heat

92% of ‘poor’ people in the US have a TV, cable tv.

It went on down a long list like this, comparing ‘poor’ to what being really poor means, was very interesting, I wish I could remember where I read it.

This list from (iirc) the Heritage Foundation is interesting to me. On the one hand, poor people today often have help with rent, Section 8, and as a result, live in houses that come with some of these things. Most of the rest can be obtained from a thrift shop for $10 or $15 (ask me hiw I know ). So to me it is not a sign of lack of poverty, esp since sometimes they may even be gifts!

As to heat, I am not sure that people are allowed to live in houses without heat anymore, esp in cold areas. So…

But there is the comparison against people who live in poverty in poor nations, like Haiti, or the people who live in the garbage dumps in Brazil.

Overall, I don’t really like the list because it makes it sound like poor people in the US are living high on the hog, when in actuality all this goid stuff they own might be from before a disaster which destroyed them economically.

Here’s the article, from the Heritage Foundation:

heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

I agree in a way with both posters.

I agree that we “should” help people who are poor and that there should be a safety net.

But, when you mention poverty to someone of my generation it conjures up the poverty of the 1930s that my father and others told me about, or the poverty in other countries I was told about in the 1960s.

So, when we say “x percent of the U.S. population is in ‘poverty,’” it might mean something more extreme to the person who hears the statistic, i.e., that that percent of the people don’t have food and a place to live, when people below the poverty line may be well above that level.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Well just be happy that you are in Finland, a nation with a much more generous welfare safety net than the US. I’m in the US and I will tell you firsthand that it’s pretty bad over here if you are poor. My family’s house is going into foreclosure. For now, the legal process is going pretty slow but I’m still wondering where I will live once my time is up here.

In the US especially, people have heavily misguided and outdated notions that poverty is the individual’s fault. In some cases, poverty is the direct result of poor life choices. But in many cases, poverty is caused by bad luck and lack of opportunity.

Don’t mean to derail the thread, but I just want to express my heartfelt empathy; I went through foreclosure myself. It was for all emotional purposes pretty close to a death of a loved one (my father had had the house built for Mom and me when I was still in the womb). I have been reckoning with the PTSD (recurring dreams etc.) for awhile. It’s getting better after 5+ years, but I still obsess about whether I’ll ever be able to have a house again before I die. Anyway, please take care of yourself and make sure you have supportive friends to be there for both moral support and practical matters. It’s hard to bring up with others; there’s a stigma attached. If you need to vent feel free to PM me; if anything good can come of what I went through it’ll be in being able to minister to others experiencing the same thing. :hug3:

 

[fhansen]

I am better off than many people in the world but by western standards I’m poor. WHY am I embarrassed about it though? I mean in Mary’s Canticle she says how God has sent away the rich with nothing. In the Beautitudes Jesus says blessed are the poor…

Do I feel weird about it because society makes me feel bad about being poor? I generally am fine and accepting of my financial position but I know I could work on some of my feelings.

Just wondering…

Kat

Because, as Jesus tells us, wealth is deceitful; it offers a false sense of security and status. But it fosters pride, which opposes God by its nature. From the Catechism:

**"1723 The beatitude we are promised confronts us with decisive moral choices. It invites us to purify our hearts of bad instincts and to seek the love of God above all else. It teaches us that true happiness is not found in riches or well-being, in human fame or power, or in any human achievement - however beneficial it may be - such as science, technology, and art, or indeed in any creature, but in God alone, the source of every good and of all love:

All bow down before wealth. Wealth is that to which the multitude of men pay an instinctive homage. They measure happiness by wealth; and by wealth they measure respectability. . . . It is a homage resulting from a profound faith . . . that with wealth he may do all things. Wealth is one idol of the day and notoriety is a second. . . . Notoriety, or the making of a noise in the world - it may be called “newspaper fame” - has come to be considered a great good in itself, and a ground of veneration."
**

 

[mikekle]

Here’s the article, from the Heritage Foundation:

heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

I agree in a way with both posters.

I agree that we “should” help people who are poor and that there should be a safety net.

But, when you mention poverty to someone of my generation it conjures up the poverty of the 1930s that my father and others told me about, or the poverty in other countries I was told about in the 1960s.

So, when we say “x percent of the U.S. population is in ‘poverty,’” it might mean something more extreme to the person who hears the statistic, i.e., that that percent of the people don’t have food and a place to live, when people below the poverty line may be well above that level.

I once heard an older person say “poor people back in the 1930s were standing in long lines for bread and apples, but poor people today stand in long lines for apple iphones”.

I agree, many poor people today could not have survived being truly poor. Its not that Im hateful towards anyone, but when I see someone complaining about being poor, but then they pull out a smartphone or tablet, Im a bit surprised.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I once heard an older person say “poor people back in the 1930s were standing in long lines for bread and apples, but poor people today stand in long lines for apple iphones”.

I agree, many poor people today could not have survived being truly poor. Its not that Im hateful towards anyone, but when I see someone complaining about being poor, but then they pull out a smartphone or tablet, Im a bit surprised.

My understanding is that the benefits given to a family of four on welfare in the U.S. is about $60,000/year. That’s above the “poverty line” itself.

Of course, there are gaps. The disabled poor are in a bad way here unless they are “under the wing” of one of the organizations (usually state-supported) that provide services to them. But not all disabled people are disabled enough to get into those programs.

But for the welfare programs in place presently, the lines at the soup kitchens would be longer than they were in the 1930s. Of that, I have no doubt at all. It seems to me that notwithstanding stock market returns, and (bogus) unemployment figures, a sort of relative poverty is widening. In my mind, it’s related to a lack of good employment opportunities and relatively higher and higher costs of living without accompanying increases in wages.

 

[Gertabelle]

My understanding is that the benefits given to a family of four on welfare in the U.S. is about $60,000/year.

Just did a little research and couldn’t find anything that comes close to those numbers. A family of four, at a basic level (money for food, rent, incidentals…), would receive $900 a month, or $10,800 a year.

welfareinfo.org/payments/

Now, if the family qualified for childcare benefits, and if they qualified for Medicare/Medicaid (or some other form of medical benefits), that number would go WAY up.

Agree with what you were saying in your last paragraph. :sad_yes:

 

[adamhovey1988]

I am better off than many people in the world but by western standards I’m poor. WHY am I embarrassed about it though? I mean in Mary’s Canticle she says how God has sent away the rich with nothing. In the Beautitudes Jesus says blessed are the poor…

Do I feel weird about it because society makes me feel bad about being poor? I generally am fine and accepting of my financial position but I know I could work on some of my feelings.

Just wondering…

Kat

I don’t know the very first house I lived in cost my mom and dad $50 us this was before I was born and that would be still a pretty good price now. My mother is called educated but at the time my family was working class. I’ve never been embarrassed about it. When my father was diagnosed with ALS my family got even less money. Eventually he died and my mom worked off and on and we were very poor at that point. But I feel it’s better to know your humble origins especially if you become successful because I don’t think people should forget where they came from and I came from poverty. I love what Pope Francis said remember the poor

 

[signit]

My understanding is that the benefits given to a family of four on welfare in the U.S. is about $60,000/year. That’s above the “poverty line” itself.

Just did a little research and couldn’t find anything that comes close to those numbers. A family of four, at a basic level (money for food, rent, incidentals…), would receive $900 a month, or $10,800 a year.

welfareinfo.org/payments/

Now, if the family qualified for childcare benefits, and if they qualified for Medicare/Medicaid (or some other form of medical benefits), that number would go WAY up.

Agree with what you were saying in your last paragraph. :sad_yes:

And my understanding is that that $60,000 figure is the pretax equivalent, i.e., that they get a package of goods and services tax-free that’s the equivalent of that a $60,000 family gets after taxes.

There was a study based on 1995 figures; there may be more recent info. It wasn’t $60,000 in 1995 dollars but would probably be higher now.

cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-240.html

 

[signit]

And my understanding is that that $60,000 figure is the pretax equivalent, i.e., that they get a package of goods and services tax-free that’s the equivalent of that a $60,000 family gets after taxes.

There was a study based on 1995 figures; there may be more recent info. It wasn’t $60,000 in 1995 dollars but would probably be higher now.

cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-240.html

Apologies; I didn’t see this.

There is a newer study dated 2013, based on 2010 data.

You were right; it’s $60,000 in one state; $50,000 in some others.

object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/the_work_versus_welfare_trade-off_2013_wp.pdf