Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

[Oscarthecat]

I’ve heard numerous doctors lament the troubles they have getting medicare to pay. They find the stupidest reasons to delay billing.

not to mention the fact that medicaid requires substantially more paperwork than private healthcare insurers, and the amount they pay, once they actually pay it, is so low it barely covers the doctor’s overhead.

 

[Oscarthecat]

But there’s my point- the CEO of Pepsi is essentially qualified to work for an insurance company right?
Let’s say an insurance company wants to hire him- he would expect to make a similar wage, if not a better one. This is true of just about every CEO and administrator- they’re qualified to work in many other fields.

So let’s say all the other companies are paying 20 million+ a year, while health insurance CEOs get lower salaries. Guess what? The good administrators will work at the higher paying companies, and health insurance will get sold short.

Yeah, I tried to explain that earlier when I pointed out that putting caps on healthcare wages, CEO or otherwise, sends the message that we, as a society, place higher value on other industries where we don’t impose a salary cap.

I hope you have better luck than I in getting a meaningful response to your point.

 

[Corki]

But there’s my point- the CEO of Pepsi is essentially qualified to work for an insurance company right?
Let’s say an insurance company wants to hire him- he would expect to make a similar wage, if not a better one. This is true of just about every CEO and administrator- they’re qualified to work in many other fields.

So let’s say all the other companies are paying 20 million+ a year, while health insurance CEOs get lower salaries. Guess what? The good administrators will work at the higher paying companies, and health insurance will get sold short.

It’s all supply and demand. The pool of people who are qualified to be CEOs of such large and complex organizations (Pepsico or a large health insurer) is VERY small. If you legistlatively limited CEO compensation for insurance companies, you put them into a different recruiting arena - they would be competing for CEOs with not-for-profit organizations and that’s an even smaller pool.

 

[Oscarthecat]

Pepsi’s CEo is at the cost of a prodcut that not everyone needs. No oe will die or exist maimed if the Pesi CEO makes Millions. The Health insurance CEO denys live sustaining care so he can make millions off of those he denied. Funny how we have Bible thumping in this thread and the defending of the rich in this thread, when in the Gospells it is recorded that Jesus said " it is easier for camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven". Don’t tell me to reference it. If you go to Mass regulerly you hear that in a Gospell at least once every 3 years. Don’t lecture me about priorities.

Are you aware that several countries with socialized medicine are having huge problems keeping their physicians from moving to other countries, like the US, because those physicians can earn significantly more here, where their wages are determined by the market, than they can in their own countries where their wages are determined by politicians?

 

[Corki]

I have a friend with a masters degree in computer systems management.
He lost his job 6 months ago.
He has plenty of money in the bank to pay his other expenses until he finds a new job, but not enough to afford health insurance for himself and his family.

Do you know what he did?
He got a minimum wage job selling coffee and carbohydrates at a local coffee shop that offers healthcare insurance for all FT employees.

He’s 45 years old. He is humiliated to be working in a drive through.
He didn’t take the job for the money, he took it for the insurance.

He took the job to provide for his family and because he would be more humiliated to be an able-bodied person demanding that other people should take care of him.

I applaud your friend for doing what his family needed and I hope he find a job in his field soon.

We are in a tough economic time - many say it’s almost as bad as the depression of the 1930s. In that time, people took any job they could find to provide for thier families. I was working in HR for a company in Houston when Enron crashed. Many of the Enron employees were overpaid compared to the market rate for their positions - i.e. secretaries making $70,000 a year. But when they were interviewed for a new job, they wouldn’t consider a salary less than what they were making at Enron. I know it’s hard. I know it’s humbling but I would work for McDonalds if that what it took to make sure my kids had insurance. And yes, some employers plans have exclusions for pre-existing conditions. That’s wrong and I wish that someone would take that on as real insurance reform. But having your one condition excluded for a year or 18 month while every other healthcare need for your family is covered is better than no coverage at all.

 

[Oscarthecat]

It’s all supply and demand. The pool of people who are qualified to be CEOs of such large and complex organizations (Pepsico or a large health insurer) is VERY small. If you legistlatively limited CEO compensation for insurance companies, you put them into a different recruiting arena - they would be competing for CEOs with not-for-profit organizations and that’s an even smaller pool.

Then it sounds like capping compensation would result in insurance companies being forced to recruit unqualified people for C-level positions, because large and complex organizations like health insurers would be forced to recruit executives who would be better qualified to head smaller, less complex organizations.

 

[Oscarthecat]

I applaud your friend for doing what his family needed and I hope he find a job in his field soon.

We are in a tough economic time - many say it’s almost as bad as the depression of the 1930s. In that time, people took any job they could find to provide for thier families. I was working in HR for a company in Houston when Enron crashed. Many of the Enron employees were overpaid compared to the market rate for their positions - i.e. secretaries making $70,000 a year. But when they were interviewed for a new job, they wouldn’t consider a salary less than what they were making at Enron. I know it’s hard. I know it’s humbling but I would work for McDonalds if that what it took to make sure my kids had insurance. And yes, some employers plans have exclusions for pre-existing conditions. That’s wrong and I wish that someone would take that on as real insurance reform. But having your one condition excluded for a year or 18 month while every other healthcare need for your family is covered is better than no coverage at all.

I agree- and I find it extremely frustrating that there are people who think they are above doing whatever it takes to provide for their families- that there are people who think there is more dignity in demanding that other people pay your way then there is in pushing a mop.

 

[peary1]

There should be no bail out the banks should of been allowed to fail ,and the mortages owed to failed banks forgiven since the entities that are owed dont exist. As for drug abuse, I have never been a fan of drug laws, if people want to get high they are going to get high whether or not we like it. But its your conservative side that is for more drug laws. Education is declining because of ****** local school boards. Schools should be teaching and have strict discilpline, corporal punishment should be brought back. I’m facing homelessness because a bank wouldn’t work with me and I got fired on a lie from my last job. “at will” employement law should be done away with, it haas run its course and isn’t usefull anymore.

It’s obvious that you have no children in school. You make it sound as if you have all the answers to the problem!

 

[aspawloski4th]

It’s obvious that you have no children in school. You make it sound as if you have all the answers to the problem!

No my wife has far too many health problems to bare children, and working junk jobs I never had enough income to support us propperly muchless any children. My wife would be very incapable if homeschooling also, her grades in school were not good. Being the oldest of 8 in a household with overbearing parents( according to my own motherinlaw) I was free babysitting for more than a decade, so I know how to care for children.

 

[aspawloski4th]

It’s all supply and demand. The pool of people who are qualified to be CEOs of such large and complex organizations (Pepsico or a large health insurer) is VERY small. If you legistlatively limited CEO compensation for insurance companies, you put them into a different recruiting arena - they would be competing for CEOs with not-for-profit organizations and that’s an even smaller pool.

Insurance companies define success by the CEO the wrong way. Instead of how customer satisfaction and clients lives saved its how much can we get away with not spending to save lives.

 

[aspawloski4th]

If it said nothing about it, that would imply they did not cover it. It’s quite possible the man you spoke to was in error, and they figured paying out was less costly than a lawsuit.

Well it’s their problem, its up to them to correctly tell us the right answer the first time. I should be able to trust what I was told the first time.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Are you aware that several countries with socialized medicine are having huge problems keeping their physicians from moving to other countries, like the US, because those physicians can earn significantly more here, where their wages are determined by the market, than they can in their own countries where their wages are determined by politicians?

In all honesty, it’s not what the doctor are makinng thats the problems its what the insurance people are making thats the big problem. It takes more skill to bypass a clogged artery in a heart operation that it does to order some not not be covered for that.

 

[Oscarthecat]

In all honesty, it’s not what the doctor are makinng thats the problems its what the insurance people are making thats the big problem. It takes more skill to bypass a clogged artery in a heart operation that it does to order some not not be covered for that.

But haven’t we already all been over the fact that insurance companies make about 3% profit?

That means that 97% of they take in and earn goes to paying those doctors and other healthcare providers- that 97% includes, obviously, the profits earned by healthcare providers like doctors.

Obviously, the 3% of insurance company profit isn’t going to make a meaningful impact in solving the healthcare problem- it wouldn’t even be a drop in the bucket.

So, if you favor using legislation to lower healthcare costs by removing profit from the healthcare system, you’re going to have to take money away from healthcare providers like doctors, nurses, physical therapists, and all the other people you want to help you.

That is what we call “biting the hand that feeds (or in this case, heals) you.”

 

[Oscarthecat]

Well it’s their problem, its up to them to correctly tell us the right answer the first time. I should be able to trust what I was told the first time.

Wow, so that evil insurance company paid your claim even though they had the legal right to deny it?

They sure are devious, aren’t they?

I wonder if your abuse of the system in this case resulted in someone else losing benefits?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

But haven’t we already all been over the fact that insurance companies make about 3% profit?

That means that 97% of they take in and earn goes to paying those doctors and other healthcare providers- that 97% includes, obviously, the profits earned by healthcare providers like doctors.

Obviously, the 3% of insurance company profit isn’t going to make a meaningful impact in solving the healthcare problem- it wouldn’t even be a drop in the bucket.

So, if you favor using legislation to lower healthcare costs by removing profit from the healthcare system, you’re going to have to take money away from healthcare providers like doctors, nurses, physical therapists, and all the other people you want to help you.

That is what we call “biting the hand that feeds (or in this case, heals) you.”

Don’t you know that 3% is too much. We should just hand it over to the government so they can print more money…

Even though that would put us in the same situation as the Weimer Republic. Look how that turned out…

 

[tjm190]

Insurance companies define success by the CEO the wrong way. Instead of how customer satisfaction and clients lives saved its how much can we get away with not spending to save lives.

You didn’t address the issue, and I think you know it.

If all insurance company administrators can get 10 times the money working somewhere else, which administrators will work at the insurance companies? The bad ones.

 

[tjm190]

Well it’s their problem, its up to them to correctly tell us the right answer the first time. I should be able to trust what I was told the first time.

You value your life, yes? Then a little bit of self education on the policy your buying seems like a no brainer.

 

[tjm190]

In all honesty, it’s not what the doctor are makinng thats the problems its what the insurance people are making thats the big problem. It takes more skill to bypass a clogged artery in a heart operation that it does to order some not not be covered for that.

The insurance companies make under 4% profit.

And quite frankly, passing all nine actuarial science exams is quite comparable to qualifying to be a general surgeon.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2009/12/medical_bills_are_a_driving_fo.html

If our healcare system was functioning as it should be this story shouldn’t at all be possbile. But storys like this are nearly everywhere all the time. Quite frankly if I was the person having the anurysm in that first story, if I knew all that was going to happen as a result of saving my life, I’d say let me die. Better to die then to live worse than a dog.

I had an old pastor who predicted a certain son of his would have a major health upset, which would prevent him from working, and probably shorten his life. Sure enough, about four or five years after the pastor died, this son collapsed with a major stroke.

However at the time he was a highly qualified architect, who had shortly before been sent to Europe and the USA to get ideas on hospitals for the Government public works agency which employed him.

I spoke briefly to him about it while he was convalescing. He said the best systems in his opinion were the Dutch and German systems (both socialised) and the one that impressed him least was the American system. In the American system, you walked into a foyer like a 5-star hotel, while out the back was a bunch of overworked navvies. The Dutch and German systems by contrast worked smoothly and with good results.

Now I haven’t much doubt the Dutch and German systems worked well to some extent because the populace either intrinsically or socially tend to do what they’re told (“You vill go to dis hospital if you haf ein heart attack!”), but they are also very efficient.

I have my doubts about Obama’s Christianity, but I don’t have a problem with “socialised” medicine. The fact that a lot of Americans go to Canada and even Cuba to get good medical treatment says something about the shortcomings in their own system.

It was on the news over a couple of days ago, and there was one memorable quote by an American (I’m not sure if he was a doctor, politician or whatever) who quipped, “America has the best medical care in the world … IF you can get it.”

The main problem with “socialised” medicine (and as a community, we are supposed to care for each other), is that abortion will no doubt be included as a state funded operation. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the rich are paying to have abortions anyway, when it suits them.

That’s the main problem.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Wow, so that evil insurance company paid your claim even though they had the legal right to deny it?

They sure are devious, aren’t they?

I wonder if your abuse of the system in this case resulted in someone else losing benefits?

The they didn’t have a legal right to deny it. They told me they did cover it, then tryed to renig on it, thats called fraud… Bate and switch. The deal with them not wanting to cover it took a couple months.