Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

  • Thread starter Thread starter aspawloski4th
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Then I would be forced to follow. I would not expect them to disrupt their lives further by moving back home to take care of me or their mother, anymore than I would be able to move back home if my parents suddenly lost everything. I would invite them into my home and honor them until God calls them.

We have been told:

I, for one, will not be caught off guard if our financial system collapses.

Something we all should think about.
When the financial system is collapsed by the insiders everyone will be a victim to some extent, even those as rich as Ross Perot. As long as it isn’t collapsed I intend to take advantage of the frame work to do good.
 
There is one and only one reason for that. Because people make it that way. That can be fixed if we want to.
No, the lack of fairness in life cannot be fixed.

The reason that life is unfair is that Adam and Eve ate of the apple. This discombobulated the perfect world that God created.

Maybe we could possibly make a health care system that was “fair” (to whom, I am not sure), but then it would be unfair that there would be conditions affecting some people but not others, that some would get sick and die and that others would not get sick, and that still others would get sick and recover…

As Catholics, we know that suffering can be offered up to God, and that God can take those offerings and use them to help others. I am not saying that that means we should be passive and not work to reduce suffering, but that as Catholics we at least have can have something positive to do with our suffering until it is resolved.

I remember reading about a nun who had a stroke which left her unable to move or to talk. She had only her eyes left, and she indicated that she wanted a Rosary put up on the wall across from her bed. Then the other nuns saw her eyes moving from bead to bead… altho she was unable to do anything physical, she used that part of her life to help others on the spiritual realm.
 
Lesser of two evils?

What evidence do you have that one of these evils is lesser than the other?

For that matter, what evidence do you have that the evil you’re prefer is lesser than the evil you don’t?

One could make the argument that the evil perpetrated by the government, at least in this matter, is greater because it is involuntary and imposes a condition upon us.

Once the government makes a decision about healthcare, I’d have to either support it with my taxes, or I’d go to jail, they’d take my home away, and/or put my wife and child on the street. I’m sure that option sounds great to some big government folks because my wife and child would likely become dependent upon government support at that point- which is where a lot of people believe we all belong, I guess.

On the other hand, the evil perpetrated by big business is voluntary insofar as you are not, at least not yet, required by law to buy what big business is selling. Sure, you may not LIKE the alternative of not buying what they’re selling, but corporations can’t throw you in jail or take away your home based on your refusal to buy what they’re selling.

Add to that the fact that neither the government plan nor the current healthcare system even claim to be able to provide satisfactory healthcare to all people of all age and income levels.

Clearly, neither of those alternatives are positive, but I can’t see how you can say that one is lesser than the other.
 
Oh yeah… Mary Landreu (?) of Lousiana sells her vote for 300 million dollars in federal aid. I’m curious what Ben Nelson was bribed with… or threatened with.
Mary Landreu got the carrot, Nelson got the stick…

The Obama administration’s hired thug, Rahm Emanuel, threatened to close Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska if he didn’t get on board by flagrantly abusing the Base Realignment and Closure Act. That would have displaced over 10,000 military families employed at the base, not to mention all of the civilian personnel employed there- doing tremendous damage to the nebraska economy.

Someone ought to go to jail for this, but I’m sure this story will never make it int the mainstream news.

Source: weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/12/source_dems_threaten_nelson_in_1.asp
 
Mary Landreu got the carrot, Nelson got the stick…

The Obama administration’s hired thug, Rahm Emanuel, threatened to close Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska if he didn’t get on board by flagrantly abusing the Base Realignment and Closure Act. That would have displaced over 10,000 military families employed at the base, not to mention all of the civilian personnel employed there- doing tremendous damage to the nebraska economy.

Someone ought to go to jail for this, but I’m sure this story will never make it int the mainstream news.

Source: weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/12/source_dems_threaten_nelson_in_1.asp
I heard had rumors of that, but I wasn’t sure if it was true. That is incredible! A healthcare bill is more important than a strategic air force base!

Or should I rephrase it - a president’s reputation and legacy is more important than our national security! The “Obama-nation” is an abomination!
 
Someone ought to go to jail for this, but I’m sure this story will never make it int the mainstream news.
%between%

And some ought to get a life sentance for Pathia’s situation too. Seeing neither will happen the score is zero / zero, were even.
 
Lesser of two evils?

What evidence do you have that one of these evils is lesser than the other?

For that matter, what evidence do you have that the evil you’re prefer is lesser than the evil you don’t?

One could make the argument that the evil perpetrated by the government, at least in this matter, is greater because it is involuntary and imposes a condition upon us.

Once the government makes a decision about healthcare, I’d have to either support it with my taxes, or I’d go to jail, they’d take my home away, and/or put my wife and child on the street. I’m sure that option sounds great to some big government folks because my wife and child would likely become dependent upon government support at that point- which is where a lot of people believe we all belong, I guess.

On the other hand, the evil perpetrated by big business is voluntary insofar as you are not, at least not yet, required by law to buy what big business is selling. Sure, you may not LIKE the alternative of not buying what they’re selling, but corporations can’t throw you in jail or take away your home based on your refusal to buy what they’re selling.

Add to that the fact that neither the government plan nor the current healthcare system even claim to be able to provide satisfactory healthcare to all people of all age and income levels.

Clearly, neither of those alternatives are positive, but I can’t see how you can say that one is lesser than the other.
A big corporation made up a lie to get me fired, and I have no recourse. That caused me to get foreclosed on. So yes businesses can reek their own havoc too. I’m facing homelessness, at least in jail you gets 3 hots and a cot and free healthcare.
 
And some ought to get a life sentance for Pathia’s situation too. Seeing neither will happen the score is zero / zero, were even.
Your attempts to keep dodging the issue are extremely transparent, and this is an excellent example.
Let’s count the logical fallacies in your response…
  1. The tu quoque fallacy:
This fallacy is committed when it is assumed that because someone else has done a thing there is nothing wrong with doing it. By extension, as you are illustrating here, it can lead to the erroneous conclusion that an incidence of someone getting away with doing something bad is sufficient to justify that another person should also get away with doing something bad.

You did this by somehow concluding that we ought to overlook the current administration’s unethical behavior because other people have behaved unethically in other situations. Incidentally, using this same faulty logic, you should be completely fine with people pillaging and burning your neighbors house because the Vikings got away with the same kind of thing.
  1. The appeal to pity:
An appeal to pity attempts to persuade using emotion—specifically, sympathy—rather than evidence. Playing on the pity that someone feels for an individual or group can certainly affect what that person thinks about the group; this is a highly effective, and so quite common, fallacy.

This fallacy is particularly persuasive because plays the tendency of emotions to cloud, rather than clarify issues.

You did this by attempting to evoke an emotional response by drawing a false corellation between Pathia’s condition and the illegal activities of the administration to which I referred.
  1. The red herring:
The red herring is committed when a listener attempts to divert an arguer from his argument by tossing out different topics, in the hope that your opponent stops debating a particular issue or stance you are unable to defend against.

You’ve been doing this all along, so I won’t bother pointing out a specific occasion.
  1. The hasty generalization fallacy:
A hasty generalisation draws a general rule from a single, perhaps atypical, case. It is the reverse of a sweeping generalization. Incidentally, this is the foundation of your entire position thus far.

I could keep going, but it doesn’t matter because you’re likely just going to respond with one of the very same fallacies I’ve already pointed out.

I think the basic problem you’re having is that you’re so entrenched in defending yourself that you’re making no attempt to seriously consider anything anyone else has to say.
 
A big corporation made up a lie to get me fired, and I have no recourse. That caused me to get foreclosed on. So yes businesses can reek their own havoc too. I’m facing homelessness, at least in jail you gets 3 hots and a cot and free healthcare.
This is an appeal to pity, as well as a red herring.

If you’re going to start your posts by quoting what I wrote, you should actually respond to what I wrote.
 
I heard had rumors of that, but I wasn’t sure if it was true. That is incredible! A healthcare bill is more important than a strategic air force base!

Or should I rephrase it - a president’s reputation and legacy is more important than our national security! The “Obama-nation” is an abomination!
Just an update on this- I’m watching on the news right now that Nelson also got a sweetheart deal for NE that apparently means the federal gov’t will pick up the tab for all future medicaid patients. By contrast, other states have to split the bill for their own medicaid patients with the federal gov’t. In effect, this means that the cost of NE’s medicaid patients will become the responsibility of taxpayers in the other 49 states.

source: politico.com/livepulse/1209/Ben_Nelsons_Medicaid_deal.html
 
Your attempts to keep dodging the issue are extremely transparent, and this is an excellent example.
Let’s count the logical fallacies in your response…
  1. The tu quoque fallacy:
This fallacy is committed when it is assumed that because someone else has done a thing there is nothing wrong with doing it. By extension, as you are illustrating here, it can lead to the erroneous conclusion that an incidence of someone getting away with doing something bad is sufficient to justify that another person should also get away with doing something bad.

You did this by somehow concluding that we ought to overlook the current administration’s unethical behavior because other people have behaved unethically in other situations. Incidentally, using this same faulty logic, you should be completely fine with people pillaging and burning your neighbors house because the Vikings got away with the same kind of thing.
  1. The appeal to pity:
An appeal to pity attempts to persuade using emotion—specifically, sympathy—rather than evidence. Playing on the pity that someone feels for an individual or group can certainly affect what that person thinks about the group; this is a highly effective, and so quite common, fallacy.

This fallacy is particularly persuasive because plays the tendency of emotions to cloud, rather than clarify issues.

You did this by attempting to evoke an emotional response by drawing a false corellation between Pathia’s condition and the illegal activities of the administration to which I referred.
  1. The red herring:
The red herring is committed when a listener attempts to divert an arguer from his argument by tossing out different topics, in the hope that your opponent stops debating a particular issue or stance you are unable to defend against.

You’ve been doing this all along, so I won’t bother pointing out a specific occasion.
  1. The hasty generalization fallacy:
A hasty generalisation draws a general rule from a single, perhaps atypical, case. It is the reverse of a sweeping generalization. Incidentally, this is the foundation of your entire position thus far.

I could keep going, but it doesn’t matter because you’re likely just going to respond with one of the very same fallacies I’ve already pointed out.

I think the basic problem you’re having is that you’re so entrenched in defending yourself that you’re making no attempt to seriously consider anything anyone else has to say.
  1. I never said a thing about the current administration one way or the other. I actually didn’t even vote for Obama! Your fallacy here is putting words in my mouth, I demand you quit doing that
    2 You call it pity, I call it actual evedence or a tangeable example. Something I trust tons more than statistics Figures lie and liars figure. You can make statistics say whatever you want them to say.
    3 Red herring. It’s only a red herring because it isn’t important to you. Well Ive got news for you, not everything has your priorities. I was bring up things that I think are important If you don’t like it, LUMP IT!!
    4 Hasty generalization. You are assuming something you can’t prove here. Ill admit I generalized, but it comes from years of observation. I don’t live in an ivory tower secluded from the world like some here, I’m out in the world and I observe. Try it you might like it.
 
3 Red herring. It’s only a red herring because it isn’t important to you. Well Ive got news for you, not everything has your priorities. I was bring up things that I think are important If you don’t like it, LUMP IT!!
Tread lightly, my friend: that is a two-way street.
 
A big corporation made up a lie to get me fired, and I have no recourse. That caused me to get foreclosed on. So yes businesses can reek their own havoc too. I’m facing homelessness, at least in jail you gets 3 hots and a cot and free healthcare.
I would like to ask if any of your position is based out of fear of the fact that you are facing homelessness?

I would also like to let you know that being homeless is not that bad. That is if you are a single person. Do you have any family living with you?

Let me explain my previous statement. This year I spent 5 months bicycling from Alaska to Las Vegas. In effect I was homeless. All my stuff stored in a building did me no good as I bicycled. As I went I was able to use my time to promote the pro-life event Wash For Life. I volunteered at several homeless shelters (my favorite being St. Martin de Porres House of Hospitality in San Francisco). I bussed tables for my fellow homeless people. I also stayed to help sweep and mop. For this Sam let me take a bag and fill it full of food from their shelves. For 2 hours of work I received food for a week.

The crowing moment of the bicycle ride was when I had to wait out a rain storm. I spent 3 days and nights on a hillside camped out in a coffin sized tent. I was quite frustrated by the end of the ordeal. It was the next day the a great event happened. I had a chance to live out the parable of The Good Samaritan. Bicycling between Willits, CA and Fort Bragg, CA I came across a woman standing on the roadside. She looked out of place. I asked her, “How are you?” She replied, “I am not well.” I only had a second to decide. I chose to stop and help. The woman had been beat and robbed. She had not eaten in 2 days and nobody had stopped to help her. At least 100 cars went by as I fed her and then helped her hitch a ride to the next town where her son lived. A kind man in a VW Bug finally stopped to help her.

I tell you this not out of personal ambition, but out of the Christian ambition to live the gospel. My point is if you take care of God’s will He will take care of you. There is no need to fear a change and there is much good one can do when not held down by the trappings of everyday life.

I hope my experience is of some value to you.

Trust in God my friend.
 
First of all you paint al socialized medicine with the same broad brush, very very naughty. To call Canada’s system comparable to Germany’s system is luneytunes. When designing our system we can make it our own way. No all governement is the same after all. In that article the first family in most other countries would at least not be homeless. That in of itself makes those other countries better than us.
As someone who live in Germany for many years and has some familiarity the welfare system in Great Britain,I warn you that it is foolish to compare either country with the United States. Great Britain and is a lesser degree Germany have highly centralized governments and populations that have little role to play in politics. Not to exaggerate too much, they are “soft” tyrannies that allow little scope for private enterprise. The kindest term for their governments is paternalism, of father knows best. Be good and Daddy will take care of you. It is very hard for small businesses to grow, because the larger corporations work hand in glove with government to maintain their monopolies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top