Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

[aspawloski4th]

This makes no sense.

How does this prove your claim that insurance companies deny cliams and are rolling in money.

Who denies the most claims?

What are the profit margins of the health insurance companies?

You totally didn’t get the post I was stating that whether evidence is compelling is subejective, and showing that the same system has different results when different pople are running it.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

You totally didn’t get the post I was stating that whether evidence is compelling is subejective, and showing that the same system has different results when different pople are running it.

Then go live in Cuba if you hate it so much here.

Let us know how that works out for you…

 

[Oscarthecat]

There should be no bail out the banks should of been allowed to fail ,and the mortages owed to failed banks forgiven since the entities that are owed dont exist. As for drug abuse, I have never been a fan of drug laws, if people want to get high they are going to get high whether or not we like it. But its your conservative side that is for more drug laws. Education is declining because of ****** local school boards. Schools should be teaching and have strict discilpline, corporal punishment should be brought back. I’m facing homelessness because a bank wouldn’t work with me and I got fired on a lie from my last job. “at will” employement law should be done away with, it haas run its course and isn’t usefull anymore.

So, we agree that all those government programs have not succeeded in solving those problems.

Given that, why do you think a new government program will solve our healthcare problems?

Do you understand what I am asking?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Then go live in Cuba if you hate it so much here.

Let us know how that works out for you…

You don’t like comparisons don’t you! I’ am always comparing , contrasting and keeping score. I will till I’m in the grave or till our society decides to be fair.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

You don’t like comparisons don’t you! I’ am always comparing , contrasting and keeping score. I will till I’m in the grave or till our society decides to be fair.

Because they don’t make any sense and you don’t honestly answer our questions or back up your claims.

 

[Oscarthecat]

This makes no sense.

How does this prove your claim that insurance companies deny cliams and are rolling in money.

Who denies the most claims?

What are the profit margins of the health insurance companies?

Why bother.
He will never address those questions directly.

And that is not my subjective opinion.

 

[aspawloski4th]

So, we agree that all those government programs have not succeeded in solving those problems.

Given that, why do you think a new government program will solve our healthcare problems?

Do you understand what I am asking?

The governement program is a financing program Im not going to wait for the perfect program to come along to step up, you are crazy. America’s health is out of access to too many people including me. What we have now is a total failure and deserves a grade of F-.

 

[Oscarthecat]

You don’t like comparisons don’t you! I’ am always comparing , contrasting and keeping score. I will till I’m in the grave or till our society decides to be fair.

Fine. Then compare the success of other government programs and contrast your findings against your expectation of a successful government healthcare program and tell me the score.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Why bother.
He will never address those questions directly.

And that is not my subjective opinion.

He’s not interested in having an honest debate for some reason.

I am willing to hear reasonable arguments for socialized heath insurance. However, they all seem to fall short.

 

[Oscarthecat]

The governement program is a financing program Im not going to wait for the perfect program to come along to step up, you are crazy. America’s health is out of access to too many people including me. What we have now is a total failure and deserves a grade of F-.

Ok, so you are saying that you believe evidence of prior success or failure is not a relevant indicator of future success or failure?

In your mind, the government’s consistent failure to solve our social ills inthe past, or even the present, is irrelevant when considering the government’s ability to solve our social ills in the future?

You must wake up in a brand new world everyday.

 

[Oscarthecat]

He’s not interested in having an honest debate for some reason.

I am willing to hear reasonable arguments for socialized heath insurance. However, they all seem to fall short.

Oh, so now you hate short people?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Oh, so now you hate short people?

How did you guess?

 

[wabrams]

My 45 year old wife with medicare hasnt been denied. And the disease she got coverage on isn’t even officially in their books. Psoriatic arthraitis.

Whoa! Time out! A lot of us have talked about not having a problem with private insurance denials, etc. and you have told us you don’t care b/c of your being denied and others being denied. Then when we bring up the fact that Medicare & Medicaid deny more than pvt. insurance, you hint around at not caring b/c they have never denied your wifes treatment. Bit of a double standard, don’t you think?

There denial rate may be high, but I’m willing to beter their application rate is higher than anyone elses also. Goes back to" figures lie and liars figure’".

I look forward to seeing the figures that you find.

Sometimes the best kind of evidence, Her disease is very easy to deny compared to most, it isn’t in the manual!

What manual? It’s not a rare disease by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Viki63]

No.

Medicare denies more claims than private insurance (healthcare-economist.com/2008/06/30/medicare-more-likely-to-deny-claims-than-commerical-health-insurers/)

Just like to point out the response of a Dr McCannes to the claim that Medicare denies more claims than private insurance, if you scroll down past that article:

"If you look at the AMA report cards, you’ll see that most claims denied by Medicare were due to billing errors (inadequate data on billing forms, wrong carrier, not enrolled in program, etc.). Also, some denials are for non-covered services such as routine physical exams. Medicare has been more effective in requiring compliance with the program, which is entirely appropriate considering that these are our taxpayer dollars that they are spending.

In contrast, the relaxation of compliance standards by the private health plans has wasted funds that we have paid in as premiums. Charging us higher premiums so that they can pay dubious claims does not represent private sector efficiency. We are paying the private plans far more in administrative costs than we do for Medicare, yet they are not providing the claims processing efficiency that we deserve. As an example, Medicare pays the contracted rate 98% of the time, whereas the private insurers do so only 66% to 84% of the time. The fact that they can’t get right the rates that they contracted for demonstrates the profound incompetence of the private insurance industry."

 

[wabrams]

"If you look at the AMA report cards, you’ll see that most claims denied by Medicare were due to billing errors (inadequate data on billing forms, wrong carrier, not enrolled in program, etc.). Also, some denials are for non-covered services such as routine physical exams. Medicare has been more effective in requiring compliance with the program, which is entirely appropriate considering that these are our taxpayer dollars that they are spending.

In contrast, the relaxation of compliance standards by the private health plans has wasted funds that we have paid in as premiums. Charging us higher premiums so that they can pay dubious claims does not represent private sector efficiency. We are paying the private plans far more in administrative costs than we do for Medicare, yet they are not providing the claims processing efficiency that we deserve. As an example, Medicare pays the contracted rate 98% of the time, whereas the private insurers do so only 66% to 84% of the time. The fact that they can’t get right the rates that they contracted for demonstrates the profound incompetence of the private insurance industry."

First off, I would take anything the AMA says with a grain of salt; they only represent, at most, 18% of all physicians. Second, Medicare wastes billions a year. If private insurance did that we wouldn’t be having this conversation as they would have gone under years ago. Private insurance profits are at most, on a family policy for a “cadillac” plan, $200 a year. That’s not a very high profit margin. The reason they make so much money is insurance large amounts of people. Medicare does pay the contractual rate most of the time b/c they force the doctors to get paid significantly less than if the patient had private insurance or paid cash. Private insurance does pa the contracted rate or they would be in violation of the contract they have with the doctors. MD’s bill a standard rate for everybody then get reimbursed on what they have contracted with each insurance company, which is why the percentages for private insurance are all over the place.

As to insurance incompetence, please show me the companies that are operating in the red and then show us how far in the red Medicare and Medicaid are.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

As to insurance incompetence, please show me the companies that are operating in the red and then show us how far in the red Medicare and Medicaid are.

That was my point to aspawloski4th, which he won’t answer.

Private insurers, I’ve heard (I could be wrong) only make 4-6% a year. I could almost get that by placing my money in a bank or government bonds, which have a lot less risk especially when interest rates are better. I mean, the only way you’d lose your money in a bank or government bonds is if Uncle Sam goes belly up and if that were the case, we’d have a lot larger issues.

The issue with Medicare and Medicad (and the proposed public option) is they can bleed billions of dollars a year, something private individuals or corporations can’t do for very long.

Basically, the government can fight a war of attrition.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Just like to point out the response of a Dr McCannes to the claim that Medicare denies more claims than private insurance, if you scroll down past that article:

"If you look at the AMA report cards, you’ll see that most claims denied by Medicare were due to billing errors (inadequate data on billing forms, wrong carrier, not enrolled in program, etc.). Also, some denials are for non-covered services such as routine physical exams. Medicare has been more effective in requiring compliance with the program, which is entirely appropriate considering that these are our taxpayer dollars that they are spending.

In contrast, the relaxation of compliance standards by the private health plans has wasted funds that we have paid in as premiums. Charging us higher premiums so that they can pay dubious claims does not represent private sector efficiency. We are paying the private plans far more in administrative costs than we do for Medicare, yet they are not providing the claims processing efficiency that we deserve. As an example, Medicare pays the contracted rate 98% of the time, whereas the private insurers do so only 66% to 84% of the time. The fact that they can’t get right the rates that they contracted for demonstrates the profound incompetence of the private insurance industry."

The author (and possibly you, not to meant as an attack) don’t understand how insurance works. Health care providers usually cut deals with insurance companies to get better rates. For example, it is cheaper for me to use “in network” doctors than it is for me to to an “out of network” doctor.

Point stands though, Medicare denies more claims.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Whoa! Time out! A lot of us have talked about not having a problem with private insurance denials, etc. and you have told us you don’t care b/c of your being denied and others being denied. Then when we bring up the fact that Medicare & Medicaid deny more than pvt. insurance, you hint around at not caring b/c they have never denied your wifes treatment. Bit of a double standard, don’t you think?

I don’t think he’s trying to have an honest debate.

 

[wabrams]

That was my point to aspawloski4th, which he won’t answer.

Private insurers, I’ve heard (I could be wrong) only make 4-6% a year. I could almost get that by placing my money in a bank or government bonds, which have a lot less risk especially when interest rates are better. I mean, the only way you’d lose your money in a bank or government bonds is if Uncle Sam goes belly up and if that were the case, we’d have a lot larger issues.

The issue with Medicare and Medicad (and the proposed public option) is they can bleed billions of dollars a year, something private individuals or corporations can’t do for very long.

Basically, the government can fight a war of attrition.

Heard on the radio news flash this morning that Fortune magazine is report a 3% net profit by health insurance companies.

 

[NotWorthy]

Heard on the radio news flash this morning that Fortune magazine is report a 3% net profit by health insurance companies.

Those thiefs!!!

This is EXACTLY what they deserve for not donating more to the Democrat National Committee!