Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

[tjm190]

I take it you are anti government. I mayself I am both anti governeement and anti big business. When a business gets to be a big business it takes on a life of its own, becaomes self prepetuating and serves no pourpose for the greater good, in many cases, which is what has happened to the health insurance industry and is quickly getting that way with pharmasuticals. We are the only country on God’s green Earth that a midical issues can make one end up loosing everything. That is tons more important than platitudes about big governement andand waste and whatever you want to throw in. Did you read the article in the first post of this thread? Lets hear your response to that!

Well we’ve already established that insurance companies make painfully small amounts of profit meaning that- take a sob story relating to the insurance industry. The claim is that for every story we read about, there are a bunch more. Let’s say the government made sure the insurance companies paid out in those cases in the future.

Well, since they only have a 3% profit margin, that means they can’t afford to pay out as much as you’d like with rates as they are. So they will raise rates. Are you okay with that?

 

[Lynn-D]

No, I was actually just considering the issue.

If people are being driven to bankruptcy by medical bills, and we as a nation are already heavily in debt and about to enter into a time when our governmental health care costs are going to rise very rapidly due to the entry of the Boomers into retirement, what makes you think that the government’s increasing its role won’t have an equally bad effect on our national situation?

I do think that something needs to be done, I just don’t think that the currently contemplated proposals are a good solution.

Seems to me that if some action taken on Tort Reform as well as allowing citizens to buy out of state insurance policies that would allow for competitive health insurance, as now is possible when buying mandated auto insurance, the costs for health care might well drop at least 20 to 25%.
This so-called health care proposal is a power grab by socialists and mark my words, abortion will be taxpayer funded and end of life consults which will of course give one options on how and when to die will be mandated as now written in hidden text designed just that way.
I am totally against this bill which also will allow coverage for illegal aliens.

 

[Fran65]

Lynn,

What do you propose that the US do with those '‘illegal aliens’ who are sick whilst within the borders of the US?

The hoary old chestnut that the pharmaceutical industry needs its high income and protection for R & D needs laying to rest.

In 1998 - the most recent stats that I could find just now, they spent $12.7billion on marketing. This is a great deal more than they were spending on R & D.
med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2003/may/Pharmaceutical.html

If I find more up to date stats then I will post them.

 

[Fran65]

Large pharmaceutical conglomerates spend 25-30% of their earnings on sales and marketing, and then spend 15% on R & D.’ Former CEO SmithKline Beecham

source:eaepc.org/parallel_distribution/myth.php?n=2

Latest figures available are 2003 - this is what all of the advisors, politicians etc are working with.

 

[Lynn-D]

Lynn,

What do you propose that the US do with those '‘illegal aliens’ who are sick whilst within the borders of the US?

The hoary old chestnut that the pharmaceutical industry needs its high income and protection for R & D needs laying to rest.

In 1998 - the most recent stats that I could find just now, they spent $12.7billion on marketing. This is a great deal more than they were spending on R & D.
med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2003/may/Pharmaceutical.html

If I find more up to date stats then I will post them.

DEPORT THEM. THEY DID AFTER ALL STEAL INTO A NATION WHERE THEY WERE NOT GIVEN PERMISSION TO DO SO. THEY WERE NOT TOO SICK TO ENTER OUR COUNTRY AND WALK ACROSS OUR BORDERS (RUN EVEN) AND MOST WALKED ACROSS THE DESSERT AS WELL. SORRY, BUT IF YOU WANT TO ENTER MY HOUSE YOU BETTER HAVE PERMISSION FIRST.

I can’t go into my church to kneel quietly in prayer because the doors are usually locked. If I broke in I would be a criminal, not much different than someone who enters my country illegally.

Pharmaceutical companies spend enormous amounts of money in research and development without a guarantee of finding a medicine. Then add to that many of their medicines are stolen and reproduced in other countries and sold as if the real thing.

Take a look at all the General Motors marketing ads. And that company is owned by the US government and the unions. How about attacking them. Or is their form of capitalism better than those who invest in a company and its product and take financial risks the villains now?

The latest profit figures for pharmaceutical companies is about 3% and in fact U.S owned oil companies profits again this year were in the 6% range. Oddity it that foreign pharmaceutical companies profits are greater as are the foreign oil companies.

LYNN…pro capitalist and anti-socialist:thumbsup:

 

[Lynn-D]

So an insurance CEO earning 20 million is a sin,
But a soda pop CEO earning 20 million is just fine.

AND OF COURSE OK FOR A FOOTBALL PLAYER AND OTHER SPORTS FIGURES TO MAKE EVEN MORE WITHOUT COMPLAINT FROM THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WHO POST ON SITES SUCH AS THIS. IS TIGER WHO MAKES OVER 20 MILLION IN SOME YEARS TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT AS SUGGESTED FOR A CEO OF A COMPANY THAT AT LEAST PRODUCES MORE THAN AN ADULTERESS GIRLFRIEND LIST. MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE A REAL SIN TAX RATHER THAN SIMPLY LABEL THOSE WHO GENERATE WEALTH, CREATE JOBS, GIVE TO CHARITIES AND LIFT THE STANDARD OF LIVING FOR AMERICANS AS SINNERS.

 

[Fran65]

Please don’t shout. I understand your position without you shouting.

Feel free to continue without me.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Well we’ve already established that insurance companies make painfully small amounts of profit meaning that- take a sob story relating to the insurance industry. The claim is that for every story we read about, there are a bunch more. Let’s say the government made sure the insurance companies paid out in those cases in the future.

Well, since they only have a 3% profit margin, that means they can’t afford to pay out as much as you’d like with rates as they are. So they will raise rates. Are you okay with that?

In percentage profit margins they are small percetages, which they can up by cutting salaries by the way. But in absolute dollars they doing just fine like the Walmart or Standard oil. Much of those salaries are exorbentant bonuses. They can cut advirtising if the margin is so low, afterall employers don’t base who they use to insure their employes baes on ad on a football game. I have no sypathy for those who make millions.I do have sypathy for those who loose their home on account of an anurysm even though they had saving, and were insured. Funny thing there are no true ways to prevent a brain anurysm either, the person in the article had a misfortune that can happen to anyone that lead to a misfortune that can only happen in the USA. I guess the person in the article I posted was born in the wrong country!

 

[Fran65]

He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor. Proverbs 14:31

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply,** ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’** Matthew 25:31-46

 

[aspawloski4th]

Haven’t we been over this before?

Ok, so you think big government is a lesser evil than big business.

And while you claim to be anti-government, you support giving the government the power and responsibility of taking over our healthcare.

Did you ever hear the one about the sheep who was invited to dinner with a couple of wolves?

The most frustrating this about whole conversation is that you won’t respond directly to any of your own inconsistencies- I fully expect that your reply will be one of the following:

1. Well, what about my friend who is sick?
2. We have to do something! Universal Healthcare is something! We have to do that!
3. Rich people are mean.

Choosing the lesser of 2 evils is a part of life when you are an adult. Ok the governement ae wolves, the insurance comapnies are queen and king cobras. Your 1,2 and 3 should be rephrased. Our evil system ruinedd a human life 2. self restraint didnt work, so restraint is coming from a new place. #. People who make millions off the misfortune of others are evil. If one of these executives were a child of mine, I’d disown him
For you and other opposed to my point of view. first read my article and respond to that, then respond to the things Ive said since.

 

[tjm190]

In percentage profit margins they are small percetages, which they can up by cutting salaries by the way.

We established that if they oay uncompetitive salaries, they will get the worst employees. Is that what you want?

But in absolute dollars they doing just fine like the Walmart or Standard oil.

Irrelevant- you want them to increase their spending by a percentage amount, so their profit margin is what matters.

Much of those salaries are exorbentant bonuses.

Again, this goes to attracting good employees.

They can cut advirtising if the margin is so low, afterall employers don’t base who they use to insure their employes baes on ad on a football game.

So you don’t think advertising has en effect? You think they do it for fun?

I have no sypathy for those who make millions.

You don’t need sympathy- you need to understand that people will work wherever they get the best deal.

I do have sypathy for those who loose their home on account of an anurysm even though they had saving, and were insured. Funny thing there are no true ways to prevent a brain anurysm either, the person in the article had a misfortune that can happen to anyone that lead to a misfortune that can only happen in the USA. I guess the person in the article I posted was born in the wrong country!

Oh?
Question- do you believe the U.S. health care system has lots and lots of ‘extra room’? Meaning, do you believe that those who, say, get denied coverage by their insurance company could get care with no effect on everybody else in the system?

 

[aspawloski4th]

We established that if they oay uncompetitive salaries, they will get the worst employees. Is that what you want?
Irrelevant- you want them to increase their spending by a percentage amount, so their profit margin is what matters. Again, this goes to attracting good employees. So you don’t think advertising has en effect? You think they do it for fun? You don’t need sympathy- you need to understand that people will work wherever they get the best deal. Oh?
Question- do you believe the U.S. health care system has lots and lots of ‘extra room’? Meaning, do you believe that those who, say, get denied coverage by their insurance company could get care with no effect on everybody else in the system?

yes. Good thing my dad never had an anurysm the kids and mom would be homeless. My mom is stay at home and has no skills.

 

[aspawloski4th]

With this debate going on. With the opposition to healthcare for all here, you’d think this was a WAlstreet journal forum, not a CAtholic forum.

 

[tjm190]

yes. Good thing my dad never had an anurysm the kids and mom would be homeless. My mom is stay at home and has no skills.

So you believe that doctors have time, hospitals have the space, the MRIs can work fast enough, the surgeons are going fast fast enough, to treat everyone who is currently being denied care?
Then why aren’t they?

 

[tjm190]

With this debate going on. With the opposition to healthcare for all here, you’d think this was a WAlstreet journal forum, not a CAtholic forum.

Hmmm… the only pro Wallstreet thing we’ve said is that lowering salaries for insurance officials is bad, do you still not understand why?

 

[aspawloski4th]

So you believe that doctors have time, hospitals have the space, the MRIs can work fast enough, the surgeons are going fast fast enough, to treat everyone who is currently being denied care?
Then why aren’t they?

That question doesn’t make any sense.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Hmmm… the only pro Wallstreet thing we’ve said is that lowering salaries for insurance officials is bad, do you still not understand why?

Be pro insurance comanies and pro big salaries is typical Walstreet think.

 

[tjm190]

Be pro insurance comanies and pro big salaries is typical Walstreet think.

Do you understand that people tend to work at the job that compensates them the most well? As such, wouldn’t we expect all of the ‘good’ administrators to work elsewhere if insurance companies lowered their salaries? Is that what you want?

 

[tjm190]

That question doesn’t make any sense.

Look at it this way- let’s say a homeless man walks into subway. He sees the prices of the sandwiches, realizes he can not afford one, and walks out thinking 'if only they charged less, I could have a sandwich." Is he correct?

Let’s a Star Wars fanatic wants one of the X light sabers used in the movie- however, at auction, people are willing to pay more than he is. He walks away thinking “if only the price had been lower, I could have had my light saber.” Is he correct?

i’d say the homeless man is, while the fanatic is not. The crucial difference is subway has a near unlimited supply of goods, while the second does not. The first market responds to increased demand by increasing output- the second, by increasing price.

Why do you think prices of health care go up constantly? Because demand is going higher and higher, while the supply is staying relatively stagnant. The market is doing its best to raise supply- why do you think oncologists cane make north of $300,000 dollars per year?

 

[Fran65]

Oncologists can make that money because people are so desperate to survive cancer that they and their insurers will pay and there would be an even greater outcry if insurers whined more than they already do about paying out.

A thing is worth what someone will pay for it.