Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

[markbrumbaugh]

Ok know it all Name me one governemnt in Jesus’s time that had a welfare program of ny kind. That type of logic you are using could be used to justify legalized abortion, because after all Jesus never said a thing against abortion. Remember BIBLE stands for BASIC information before leaving earth, not ALL information before leaving earth. I never thought I’d have to tell that to a Catholic.

Well name me one verse of scripture where Jesus said that if we had welfare programs, we would all be saved. I seem to recall he was pretty specific about distinguishing between Ceasars and God’s. I never thought I’d have to tell that to anybody

 

[NotWorthy]

Ok know it all Name me one governemnt in Jesus’s time that had a welfare program of ny kind. That type of logic you are using could be used to justify legalized abortion, because after all Jesus never said a thing against abortion. Remember BIBLE stands for BASIC information before leaving earth, not ALL information before leaving earth. I never thought I’d have to tell that to a Catholic.

I never thought that was needed to be said. However…

You are forgetting the mighty Roman Empire! They had public programs to keep “the peasants in line”. Caesar would throw money to the crowds and give out free bread in order to prevent public opinion against him.

The Jews took care of their widows, just as the early Church did (the first 7 deacons are an example of this). But no, the Church didn’t go to Herod or Caesar to get this done. They took care of their own.

Oh, and the Catholic Church **was **preaching against abortion in the 1st century (yes, sadly the practice of abortion is far older than even the Church). **Where **do you think they got their teaching from?!?

 

[NotWorthy]

Well name me one verse of scripture where Jesus said that if we had welfare programs, we would all be saved. I seem to recall he was pretty specific about distinguishing between Ceasars and God’s. I never thought I’d have to tell that to anybody

… and I never thought you’d have to say it TWICE!

 

[cynic]

These forums are dominated by extremist libertarians who just don’t want 1c of their earnings taxed for social spending. I think that’s the motivation. There isn’t a country in the world where government has no part to play whatsoever in helping the poor with health care. Even republicans support some limited access to medicaid.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

These forums are dominated by extremist libertarians who just don’t want 1c of their earnings taxed for social spending. I think that’s the motivation. There isn’t a country in the world where government has no part to play whatsoever in helping the poor with health care. Even republicans support some limited access to medicaid.

Ultimately, this topic has very little to do with money but determining what is true charity.

Mark 12:41 (RSV-CE) and following:

*41 And he sat down opposite the treasury, and watched the multitude putting money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. 42 And a poor widow came, and put in two copper coins, which make a penny. 43 And he called his disciples to him, and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the treasury. 44 For they all contributed out of their abundance; but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, her whole living.”
**
These words of Truth is what a socialist society is eventually led to forget: the personal sacrifice and power of charity. It may not, necessarily, be most of the people’s fault but nevertheless forces are at work to eradicate the virtue of charity.

If individuals are not charitable, then pray for more charity. Be a witness for charity.

 

[NotWorthy]

These forums are dominated by extremist libertarians who just don’t want 1c of their earnings taxed for social spending. I think that’s the motivation. There isn’t a country in the world where government has no part to play whatsoever in helping the poor with health care. Even republicans support some limited access to medicaid.

There is a simple plan to help the poor. Give them jobs where they can afford their healthcare. Every incentive for the government to “help the poor” has produced an increase of people who don’t work for themselves and rely on the government - translation: less people paying taxes to the government and more people receiving aid from the government.

Every time government comes up with a new plan, they pay for it by taxing us and/or corporations (where they pass the taxes on to us). With each increase in taxes, our ability to create jobs goes down as well, so its double jeapordy on money going in and money going out.

If government would get their hands out of our pockets, jobs would be created. Then people could afford their own healthcare. Period.

 

[aspawloski4th]

There is a simple plan to help the poor. Give them jobs where they can afford their healthcare. Every incentive for the government to “help the poor” has produced an increase of people who don’t work for themselves and rely on the government - translation: less people paying taxes to the government and more people receiving aid from the government.

Every time government comes up with a new plan, they pay for it by taxing us and/or corporations (where they pass the taxes on to us). With each increase in taxes, our ability to create jobs goes down as well, so its double jeapordy on money going in and money going out.

If government would get their hands out of our pockets, jobs would be created. Then people could afford their own healthcare. Period.

Well then tell all the employers to hire and pay a living wage rather than make the excuse the bottemline is all important then.

 

[pathia]

If government would get their hands out of our pockets, jobs would be created. Then people could afford their own healthcare. Period.

Assuming they pay enough to buy insurance, assuming someone can work at all, or assuming someone can work ENOUGH.

There are a number of unstated assumptions in your statement.

 

[jgault]

Well then tell all the employers to hire and pay a living wage rather than make the excuse the bottemline is all important then.

You clearly don’t understand the economics of running a business. First, businesses must pay prevailing wages to attract the employees they need. Those wages are determined by the market based on the value an employee brings to the business. Individuals need to take responsibility for increasing their value through knowledge, experience, and hard work.

Second, businesses must pay attention to the bottom line or they won’t be in business very long. Businesses that want to stay in business can’t pay more than prevailing wages or they will lose money and go out of business. Staying in business provides many benefits to society like jobs for employees and payment of taxes (income, payroll, property, sales, etc.).

The point of the poster you responded to is that when government interferes and makes it difficult to run a profitable business, society as a whole suffers because it leads to fewer jobs, lower wages, fewer benefits, and lower tax revenues.

 

[NotWorthy]

Well then tell all the employers to hire and pay a living wage rather than make the excuse the bottemline is all important then.

Have you been in a shell so long that you don’t remember what happens when the economy roars? Or maybe you’ve held a public sector job and just can’t relate.

When the economy roars, employers HAVE to give their employees good wages, or else they lose them to other companies that are willing to pay them more.

Economics is Simple, if you just keep it simple.

 

[NotWorthy]

Assuming they pay enough to buy insurance, assuming someone can work at all, or assuming someone can work ENOUGH.

There are a number of unstated assumptions in your statement.

See my post to Aspa (disregarding the sarcasm, for I’ve got none from you ) regarding paying them enough.

With enough people working and paying into the system in (much lower) taxes, you’ll have enough money to assist those who fall through the cracks… mainly because there would be less people falling through the cracks.

My unstated assumptions are easy to address if you wish to bring them up. A free enterprise system provides the most benefits to the most people. It’s what made America great!

 

[NotWorthy]

Aspa,

One quick question. Do you understand how lowering taxes raises government revenues? Evidently, its not as clear as it seems, because every stinkin’ democrat on TV claims that you have to RAISE taxes in order to raise revenues. :whacky: That’s just crazy talk!

 

[pathia]

See my post to Aspa (disregarding the sarcasm, for I’ve got none from you ) regarding paying them enough.

With enough people working and paying into the system in (much lower) taxes, you’ll have enough money to assist those who fall through the cracks… mainly because there would be less people falling through the cracks.

My unstated assumptions are easy to address if you wish to bring them up. A free enterprise system provides the most benefits to the most people. It’s what made America great!

I’ll be dead before the recession is over, I’m not doing too well. Will be too late for me. Trying one last time to leave the country. It’s not a matter of money anymore, I’ve just been too sick too long. Had a heart attack, why i’ve been gone. Only 29 and had heart attack…trying to make my peace.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’ll be dead before the recession is over, I’m not doing too well. Will be too late for me. Trying one last time to leave the country. It’s not a matter of money anymore, I’ve just been too sick too long. Had a heart attack, why i’ve been gone. Only 29 and had heart attack…trying to make my peace.

I’m sorry to hear that, Pathia. May God bless you and may you find peace in Him.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I’ll be dead before the recession is over, I’m not doing too well. Will be too late for me. Trying one last time to leave the country. It’s not a matter of money anymore, I’ve just been too sick too long. Had a heart attack, why i’ve been gone. Only 29 and had heart attack…trying to make my peace.

This is very sad. Back in the 1950s my mother had an uncle who died of a hypercholesterol heart attack. He was a pro basketball player who was in a league that wa just below the NBA. His wife of 6 months never remarried. There were many experimental concoctions at that time they were working on to have a fix for this problem. When brought into the hospital his cholesterol was 800+, all arturies were so clogged that they thought the new technology of a heart bypass would of been a waste of time. Were my greatuncle and his new bride at the tie rich? NO! Aunt Woody went on to go to get a college degree and be the dean of women at Purdue University. In today’s system she would of been cleaned out and on the street. Flash foreword to today we have technology that leaves those times in the dust. But most of us here can’t afford it. >more and more people have worthless insurance policies that wouldn’t cover somelike that or the deductables are so high, paying them makes one loose everything anyway… Yes the technology in the USA is great,but if most can’t afford it there is no sense in having it anyway.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Have you been in a shell so long that you don’t remember what happens when the economy roars? Or maybe you’ve held a public sector job and just can’t relate.

When the economy roars, employers HAVE to give their employees good wages, or else they lose them to other companies that are willing to pay them more.

Economics is Simple, if you just keep it simple.

I’d love to have a public sector job! But all my adult life Iv’e had to put up with the backstabbing, lying, cheating ,discrimination, and amorality of private sector jobs.

 

[jgault]

I’d love to have a public sector job! But all my adult life Iv’e had to put up with the backstabbing, lying, cheating ,discrimination, and amorality of private sector jobs.

What makes you think a public sector job would be any different? The only difference is job security.

The only way to guarantee you don’t have to put up with any of these things is to start your own business.

 

[aspawloski4th]

What makes you think a public sector job would be any different? The only difference is job security.

The only way to guarantee you don’t have to put up with any of these things is to start your own business.

Hint hint, people I personally know.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

One will find all the vices and sins of humans in any form of business whether it be public, private, individual or even unemployed.

What one can do is practice individual charity in all these instances and avoid sin.

 

[CDNowak]

This is very sad. Back in the 1950s my mother had an uncle who died of a hypercholesterol heart attack. He was a pro basketball player who was in a league that wa just below the NBA. His wife of 6 months never remarried. There were many experimental concoctions at that time they were working on to have a fix for this problem. When brought into the hospital his cholesterol was 800+, all arturies were so clogged that they thought the new technology of a heart bypass would of been a waste of time. Were my greatuncle and his new bride at the tie rich? NO! Aunt Woody went on to go to get a college degree and be the dean of women at Purdue University. In today’s system she would of been cleaned out and on the street. Flash foreword to today we have technology that leaves those times in the dust. But most of us here can’t afford it. >more and more people have worthless insurance policies that wouldn’t cover somelike that or the deductables are so high, paying them makes one loose everything anyway… Yes the technology in the USA is great,but if most can’t afford it there is no sense in having it anyway.

What changed in health care from 1900-1950 to now? The birth of insurance, and of government insurance (1960’s) in particular. Yes, we need to do something, but mandating what caused the problem is only going to make it worse.