The tea party movement is a bunch of upper middle class anti tax people who think they know it all. They are only looking at the symptoms of the real problems. If we wanted to real movement to get the USA back where it belongs , it would be a get rid of the Federal reserve, bring money back to being backed by gold movement. Until that happens it will be business as usual.… but the herd mentality would seem to steer the public opinion for health-care reform. When it first came to the national forefront, public opinion was FOR health-care reform and the network newsgroups were DEFINITELY for health-care reform.
It seems that the Tea Party movement began to shift public opinion away from reform. Do you agree with this? And what is your opinion of the Tea Partiers? Pelosi compares them with Nazis…
Poor, tea-party supporter here, not all that far from your front doorstep.The tea party movement is a bunch of upper middle class anti tax people who think they know it all. They are only looking at the symptoms of the real problems. If we wanted to real movement to get the USA back where it belongs , it would be a get rid of the Federal reserve, bring money back to being backed by gold movement. Until that happens it will be business as usual.
If there are 10 shots and 11 people, there isn’t enough for all of them. So the price of that shot rises until one of them is either unable or unwilling to pay. The rises in cost produce profit.Not enough to go around? What a strange and barbaric concept at our present level of civilization! Just what does it have to do with the Christian obligation to care for the least of these?..Is death really so scary to us that we would resort to survival of the fittest?
The proof? People talk about there being tons and tons of people who need more care. Have you been into a hospital? Do we have hundreds of thousands of doctors just waiting for someone to care for to walk in? If not, who is going to treat all those people?You keep saying there isn’t enough health care to go around, where is the proof? Since you seem to think healthcare is so unimportant maybe you want to give up your’s.
Could they be people who are over-taxed? Do you realize that many of these tea-partiers voted for Obama.The tea party movement is a bunch of upper middle class anti tax people who think they know it all. They are only looking at the symptoms of the real problems. If we wanted to real movement to get the USA back where it belongs , it would be a get rid of the Federal reserve, bring money back to being backed by gold movement. Until that happens it will be business as usual.
Speaking of which, President Obama’s plan calls for price fixes on procedures.The proof? People talk about there being tons and tons of people who need more care. Have you been into a hospital? Do we have hundreds of thousands of doctors just waiting for someone to care for to walk in? If not, who is going to treat all those people?
I think health care is very important- but we don’t have enough of it for everyone, so not everyone gets as much as they need. The government just wants to divvy it up as they see fit.
An artificially low price (as in a price set by any outside organization bellow what the price would be otherwise) means people are going to want to buy more than providers are willing to sell. The other word for this is ‘shortage’- but even worse. When the market produces a shortage, prices go up. This is an incentive for individuals and firms to put money and resources into that market- investors make a profit, and the price starts to decline as the shortage becomes less severe. With price fixing, the profit incentive that lures investors into the market fails to exist.Speaking of which, President Obama’s plan calls for price fixes on procedures.
When has price fixes, or prices freezes, ever worked?
Seems to me it is more complex than that. How does the above work with artificially high prices, as exist presently in the health care industry? (I know of no insurance company which pays 100% of the asking price for any procedure; rather, they negotiate discounts and then pay a percentage of that negotiated price, leaving the remainder to the insured person).An artificially low price (as in a price set by any outside organization bellow what the price would be otherwise) means people are going to want to buy more than providers are willing to sell. The other word for this is ‘shortage’- but even worse. When the market produces a shortage, prices go up. This is an incentive for individuals and firms to put money and resources into that market- investors make a profit, and the price starts to decline as the shortage becomes less severe. With price fixing, the profit incentive that lures investors into the market fails to exist.
Actually between my wife’s multiple heathproblems ( arthraitis, stroke, degenerative back disease) and my 36 kidneystones I have had in my past, Iv’e seen the inside of a hospital plenty. And I do hold to what I say!The proof? People talk about there being tons and tons of people who need more care. Have you been into a hospital? Do we have hundreds of thousands of doctors just waiting for someone to care for to walk in? If not, who is going to treat all those people?
I think health care is very important- but we don’t have enough of it for everyone, so not everyone gets as much as they need. The government just wants to divvy it up as they see fit.
Yeah, freezing the price on gasoline seemed like a good idea on paper, too.Seems to me it is more complex than that. How does the above work with artificially high prices, as exist presently in the health care industry? (I know of no insurance company which pays 100% of the asking price for any procedure; rather, they negotiate discounts and then pay a percentage of that negotiated price, leaving the remainder to the insured person).
Medicare negotiates the lowest prices of all. So there is already some form of voluntary price fixing if you will when caregivers sign up with Medicare (or any insurance company for that matter).
Since the insured does not meet the full cost of care (with good plans they only meet a small part), how would fixing the price change their use of health resources? Would the insurance companies pass on the reduced/fixed price to their customers?
It is not simply the laws of supply and demand at work here. The services an insured person purchases are most often not selected by them but by their physicians. Many of those services are provided by entities other than the physician recommending them and the cost is only a secondary concern (if at all it is considered).
So the total dollar value of much of health care accessed by an individual is determined by someone who is only responsible for providing a part of it and who may or may not give a second thought to the cost. Are physicians going to change the way they treat patients, the number of tests they order or the types of drugs they prescribe based on the cost to the patient? Hardly likely, if that patient is insured.
Lastly, much of medical care is not optional, so it’s not simply a case of decreased utilization with rising prices. That heart attack needs treated whether or not the price of treating it went up 30% last year!
See what I mean about the complexity of it all?
You’ve never been in a hospital in Southeast Texas, in that case.Actually between my wife’s multiple heathproblems ( arthraitis, stroke, degenerative back disease) and my 36 kidneystones I have had in my past, Iv’e seen the inside of a hospital plenty. And I do hold to what I say!
So the the majority of our doctors are just sitting around doing nothing? Or are the majority of our people getting most of the care they need?Actually between my wife’s multiple heathproblems ( arthraitis, stroke, degenerative back disease) and my 36 kidneystones I have had in my past, Iv’e seen the inside of a hospital plenty. And I do hold to what I say!
The only time I ever got the understaffed explaination was when it waas busier than normal.So the the majority of our doctors are just sitting around doing nothing? Or are the majority of our people getting most of the care they need?
People can take a bus/train, carpool or walk if they can’t afford gasoline. What alternative is there to getting essential health care? Simply lying down and dying? I would argue that there is poor comparison between health care and most other commodities one buys. Even with food, one can substitute cheap stuff for the nutritious, water for milk, spam for chicken…what’s my substitute for gallbladder removal?Yeah, freezing the price on gasoline seemed like a good idea on paper, too.
Wow, that was a tangent!People can take a bus/train, carpool or walk if they can’t afford gasoline. What alternative is there to getting essential health care? Simply lying down and dying? I would argue that there is poor comparison between health care and most other commodities one buys. Even with food, one can substitute cheap stuff for the nutritious, water for milk, spam for chicken…what’s my substitute for gallbladder removal?
I’m on month six waiting for an MRI here. Lines already exist, don’t fool yourself.Wow, that was a tangent!
The point is, when government tried to fix the gas situation by freezing gas prices, the opposite thing happened. It all went to hell in a handbasket. Long lines for gas sprang up out of nowhere.
Do you want to sit in a long line for your gallbladder removal? Ask our Canadian friends how that’s working for them.
Who says the prices are artificially high? Insurance companies try to pay out as little as their contract allows them- that’s just how they stay afloat. And the price fixing I’ve been talking about was Obama’s ‘affordable insurance’, where insurance companies are forced to set rates his administration likes.- I haven’t heard plans about fixing the prices on actual care.Seems to me it is more complex than that. How does the above work with artificially high prices, as exist presently in the health care industry? (I know of no insurance company which pays 100% of the asking price for any procedure; rather, they negotiate discounts and then pay a percentage of that negotiated price, leaving the remainder to the insured person).
This is not equivalent to price fixing- and remember, many groups have opted out of medicare.Medicare negotiates the lowest prices of all. So there is already some form of voluntary price fixing if you will when caregivers sign up with Medicare (or any insurance company for that matter).
The change will occur when more people enter the system- if everyone, or a large portion of everyone, who isn’t in the system now enters it, those in the system already will have to accept that they will be receiving far less health care, or have to sit on waiting lists.Since the insured does not meet the full cost of care (with good plans they only meet a small part), how would fixing the price change their use of health resources? Would the insurance companies pass on the reduced/fixed price to their customers?
It. Doesn’t. Matter.It is not simply the laws of supply and demand at work here. The services an insured person purchases are most often not selected by them but by their physicians. Many of those services are provided by entities other than the physician recommending them and the cost is only a secondary concern (if at all it is considered).
The dollar value doesn’t matter- just the total amount of care available.So the total dollar value of much of health care accessed by an individual is determined by someone who is only responsible for providing a part of it and who may or may not give a second thought to the cost. Are physicians going to change the way they treat patients, the number of tests they order or the types of drugs they prescribe based on the cost to the patient? Hardly likely, if that patient is insured.
And eating isn’t optional either- but when there isn’t enough food to go around, you have to make tough choices.Lastly, much of medical care is not optional, so it’s not simply a case of decreased utilization with rising prices. That heart attack needs treated whether or not the price of treating it went up 30% last year!
No- it’s incredibly simple.See what I mean about the complexity of it all?
Then your case is incredibly rare- I’ve been through more CT scans then I care to remember and was never waiting around for more than a few days.I’m on month six waiting for an MRI here. Lines already exist, don’t fool yourself.
It doesn’t matter how much people need it- it’s still going to run out when people try to get more than is available.People can take a bus/train, carpool or walk if they can’t afford gasoline. What alternative is there to getting essential health care? Simply lying down and dying? I would argue that there is poor comparison between health care and most other commodities one buys. Even with food, one can substitute cheap stuff for the nutritious, water for milk, spam for chicken…what’s my substitute for gallbladder removal?
I’m not saying freezing prices is the answer I’m just saying there is no really apt comparison between purchasing health care and purchasing just about anything else. That is simply because the person selecting the product is different from the one using it who is different still from the one paying for it. What other product can you say that for? The market model for health care is unique and yes, price manipulation is the order of the day.Wow, that was a tangent!
The point is, when government tried to fix the gas situation by freezing gas prices, the opposite thing happened. It all went to hell in a handbasket. Long lines for gas sprang up out of nowhere.
Do you want to sit in a long line for your gallbladder removal? Ask our Canadian friends how that’s working for them.