Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

[wabrams]

My arteries and veins bruise/swell and break easily. If I have brain surgery, what do you think might-possibly happen when they’re poking about in there? I suppose it might be more proper to say that the surgery could cause a stroke, which would kill me. I’ve already had one. I’m not a doctor and I don’t see them often, all I know is they told me there was very, very, very high chance of dying on the table, or dying in the days right after any sort of brain surgery.

I wasn’t doubting you; just being nosy. Sorry.

 

[markbrumbaugh]

We have a certain amount of care available- we choose to divvy it up by who can pay. No other method seems to be overwhelming more nice.

EXACTLY. On a more moral basis, what happened to “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods”?
I have to be really honest here. If I were to find that I was dying of an illness and the only way my life could be prolonged would be to hire a politician to go take money from a hard working person at gunpoint and bring it to me to pay for my health care…I would rather die. Period. End of story.

So why am I a sinner for feeling this way?

 

[aspawloski4th]

EXACTLY. On a more moral basis, what happened to “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods”?
I have to be really honest here. If I were to find that I was dying of an illness and the only way my life could be prolonged would be to hire a politician to go take money from a hard working person at gunpoint and bring it to me to pay for my health care…I would rather die. Period. End of story.

So why am I a sinner for feeling this way?

Very simple because you are puting money above human life, which is a mortal sin. A better scenario for you to ponder is what instead of it being you, the person inquestion dying of a bad illness is a child?

 

[pathia]

EXACTLY. On a more moral basis, what happened to “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods”?
I have to be really honest here. If I were to find that I was dying of an illness and the only way my life could be prolonged would be to hire a politician to go take money from a hard working person at gunpoint and bring it to me to pay for my health care…I would rather die. Period. End of story.

So why am I a sinner for feeling this way?

It isn’t so much a matter of money per say, not with insurance. They won’t sell me the goods to begin with. I have about $600-700 a month I can use to put forward to insurance, but no one will sell me a plan for that. It’s been this way since I’ve been a minor.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Very simple because you are puting money above human life, which is a mortal sin. A better scenario for you to ponder is what instead of it being you, the person inquestion dying of a bad illness is a child?

This is utterly false. Healthcare will always be rationed in some form, regardless of how it is delivered and paid for,

 

[markbrumbaugh]

Very simple because you are puting money above human life, which is a mortal sin. A better scenario for you to ponder is what instead of it being you, the person inquestion dying of a bad illness is a child?

No I’m not, I’m honoring the commandments to not covet other’s property and to not steal.

 

[kage_ar]

It’s well known on this thread by now I have no insurance. I’ve probably posted over a hundred times on this thread, I’m not going to reiterate my entire story every single bloody time I say anything. Besides, I’ve re-read my statement a dozen times, nowhere did I every say ‘Everyone waits six months’. I said I have to wait six months. You are putting words into my statement that don’t exist. Anyone who doesn’t have insurance is likely to have the same line I do and there’s millions of us. So even if I was speaking to more than myself, there’s still a ton of people in my situation, it is not ‘unique’.

Contact the St Vincent de Paul Society and/or Catholic Charities at your Diocese. They will direct you to the free clinics available in your area.

If you are close to Arkansas, pm me and I will give you a list of all of the resources for the uninsured in our state. As long as you meet the income guidelines and have been refused for Medicaid and Medicare, you can find life saving treatment.

 

[pathia]

Contact the St Vincent de Paul Society and/or Catholic Charities at your Diocese. They will direct you to the free clinics available in your area.

If you are close to Arkansas, pm me and I will give you a list of all of the resources for the uninsured in our state. As long as you meet the income guidelines and have been refused for Medicaid and Medicare, you can find life saving treatment.

I make 30k a year and I am single without children, that’s way over the income guidelines in every case I’ve ever examined.

 

[kage_ar]

I make 30k a year and I am single without children, that’s way over the income guidelines in every case I’ve ever examined.

I must have confused you with another poster, that poster stated they lived in poverty.

For those blessed with good income, there are many doctors now offering low cost cash payment plans. An HSA would help in that case.

 

[pathia]

I must have confused you with another poster, that poster stated they lived in poverty.

For those blessed with good income, there are many doctors now offering low cost cash payment plans. An HSA would help in that case.

I don’t need ‘a doctor’ I need specialists and the drugs I require are well over $1000 a month. I have roughly $275,000 in medical debt currently that I have monthly bills on. I’ve already bankrupted away about $400,000 other in bills.

 

[kage_ar]

I don’t need ‘a doctor’ I need specialists and the drugs I require are well over $1000 a month. I have roughly $275,000 in medical debt currently that I have monthly bills on. I’ve already bankrupted away about $400,000 other in bills.

I work with assisting people in finding creative soultions for this type of need. There must be people like me in your Parish or Diocese. Really, call your social justice people at the Parish and set up an appointment!

 

[seekerz]

EXACTLY. On a more moral basis, what happened to “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods”?
I have to be really honest here. If I were to find that I was dying of an illness and the only way my life could be prolonged would be to hire a politician to go take money from a hard working person at gunpoint and bring it to me to pay for my health care…I would rather die. Period. End of story.

So why am I a sinner for feeling this way?

The example does not apply because money for health care isn’t being taken from anyone at gunpoint.

Are we all criminals because Jesus’ very life blood was taken from Him by force to the benefit of all of us? Stop misrepresenting the word of God and spreading misinformation!

Since when is accepting help = coveting? Indeed, it is sometimes known as humility: having what it takes to say, "I can’t do this alone, can you please help me?’

Health care isn’t some fixed entity sitting somewhere that is used up the more people who have access to it -, it is dynamic! That means resources can be increased and capacity expanded to meet demands the same way a school expands when it acquires more students or a family upgrades their home as the children are born. It won’t happen overnight, but just as excluding kids from school or kicking your kids out of the house are not acceptable, neither is the alternative, in this case.

This rabid, selfish ‘there’s not enough’ misinformation has no place on a Christian board, far less a Catholic one. Indeed, it sounds like the secular argument for every trend against Catholic family values since the pill was invented!

To try to make people feel guilty for needing help is even lower than playing politics with their issues…

 

[CDNowak]

The example does not apply because money for health care isn’t being taken from anyone at gunpoint.

A government mandate, by its very nature, implies the threat of force. If a healthy young person does not get health insurance because it is that or car insurance (like me, for example), forcing them to buy health insurance, with the threat of crippling fines enforced by jail might as well be a loaded gun.

Are we all criminals because Jesus’ very life blood was taken from Him by force to the benefit of all of us? Stop misrepresenting the word of God and spreading misinformation!

Ummm, yeah… sort of. Jesus died because we are all criminals.

Since when is accepting help = coveting? Indeed, it is sometimes known as humility: having what it takes to say, "I can’t do this alone, can you please help me?’

Yes, it can be motivated by either humility or sloth, asking for help is a morally neutral act in and of itself.

This rabid, selfish ‘there’s not enough’ misinformation has no place on a Christian board, far less a Catholic one. Indeed, it sounds like the secular argument for every trend against Catholic family values since the pill was invented!

There is a legitimate debate over there will be enough. Every nation with universal healthcare has some degree of rationing, usually in the form of long waits. A number of doctors have said they will retire early, before the provisions of a government plan kick in, because it is so difficult to get paid. This, the lack of conscience protections, and increased demand means that there is a good chance of shortages under the president’s ‘plan’.

 

[jgault]

I work with assisting people in finding creative soultions for this type of need. There must be people like me in your Parish or Diocese. Really, call your social justice people at the Parish and set up an appointment!

kage_ar,

I’ve suggested that before. If you go back and look at pathia’s posts, he/she always comes up with a reason why anything that is suggested won’t work for them. My suspicion is that it isn’t on the up and up. Strange conditions…bankrupt but doesn’t qualify for Medicaid…lots of opinions from doctors but can’t see a doctor…can’t go to Catholic social worker because he/she is lapsed, etc. It just doesn’t seem to add up.

 

[seekerz]

A government mandate, by its very nature, implies the threat of force. If a healthy young person does not get health insurance because it is that or car insurance (like me, for example), forcing them to buy health insurance, with the threat of crippling fines enforced by jail might as well be a loaded gun.

Ummm, yeah… sort of. Jesus died because we are all criminals.

What I meant was, did His death make us criminals? You seem to be implying that accepting government help makes the recipient akin to one! Let’s keep the logic consistent here.

Yes, it can be motivated by either humility or sloth, asking for help is a morally neutral act in and of itself.

Which is why I said it is “sometimes known as humility”, again to counter your implication in your example, that it would be wrong to accept the help. It is a false example also for other reasons already pointed out.

There is a legitimate debate over there will be enough. Every nation with universal healthcare has some degree of rationing, usually in the form of long waits. A number of doctors have said they will retire early, before the provisions of a government plan kick in, because it is so difficult to get paid. This, the lack of conscience protections, and increased demand means that there is a good chance of shortages under the president’s ‘plan’.

Debate is always legitimate, but asserting ‘there will not be enough’ as a basis for exclusion, is just plain wrong. Long waits happen here as well, right now and every country/system has its share of horror stories (some of which have absolutely nothing to do with universal health care or lack of it). Besides, as you implied yourself, different countries have variably successful versions of universal health care so why can’t the most successful nation on earth find a way to do it better than others? Now the word sloth, comes to mind…

 

[CDNowak]

What I meant was, did His death make us criminals? You seem to be implying that accepting government help makes the recipient akin to one! Let’s keep the logic consistent here.

You are the one who chose the bad example, all I did was point out the fact it was a bad example. (“His blood be upon us and upon our children”).

Which is why I said it is “sometimes known as humility”, again to counter your implication in your example, that it would be wrong to accept the help. It is a false example also for other reasons already pointed out.

Eisgesis, isn’t it wonderful!

Debate is always legitimate, but asserting ‘there will not be enough’ as a basis for exclusion, is just plain wrong. Long waits happen here as well, right now and every country/system has its share of horror stories (some of which have absolutely nothing to do with universal health care or lack of it). Besides, as you implied yourself, different countries have variably successful versions of universal health care so why can’t the most successful nation on earth find a way to do it better than others? Now the word sloth, comes to mind…

No, illogical and basis assertions are illegitimate debate. An assertion, based on the known facts, empirical experience, and logical projection (ie there will be shortages so there will be exclusion).

While long waits can happen here, it is rare that they are long as Canada’s.

If I implied other nations were successful in implementing universal healthcare I apologize, I meant to imply the opposite, universal health ‘care’ seems to lead to gross incompetence and catastrophic wait times. Of course, domestically we should know that anyway.

 

[kage_ar]

kage_ar,

.can’t go to Catholic social worker because he/she is lapsed, etc. It just doesn’t seem to add up.

Well, I am not a professional social worker, but, the majority of the people I help through the parish are not Catholic.

 

[Gift_from_God]

I’m a Canadian, and we poke fun at America all the time for being the only developed nation with no publicly funded health care system

 

[CDNowak]

I’m a Canadian, and we poke fun at America all the time for being the only developed nation with no publicly funded health care system

And we poke fun at the fact that your politicans come to us for their surgeries.

 

[jgault]

Well, I am not a professional social worker, but, the majority of the people I help through the parish are not Catholic.

Yes, I know. That’s one of the reasons I said it doesn’t add up. With pathia, there is always some reason why suggested sources of help don’t apply…hence my suspicion.