Why am I so stuck?

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3xblessed

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Background: my husband, children and I converted two years ago at Easter vigil. We came in with a really charismatic (but theologically sound; not at all radical) amazing priest, who was transferred less than a year later. I had some theological issues that were difficult for me in the conversion process, including the fact that I wasn’t sure I really believed in the concepts of transubstantiation, or the veneration of saints or praying to Mary. My husband fully believed in all of it, but I admit that I was mostly just going along with it. I really enjoyed attending Mass back then despite my doubts, because I had a great priest who truly seemed like he was imitating Christ and I loved the music.

Since that great priest was transferred out of the parish, I’m completely lost. We never really met anyone in our parish so we’ve tried a couple different parishes, finally settling on one but still not meeting anyone. We get involved in parish activities and no one talks to us at all. While the priest in our current parish is fine, he’s also not inspiring at all in the way the first priest was and frankly all the priests since that first one seem like they’re just going through the motions. Then there was the liturgy change and now they’ve taken away one of the things that was most meaningful and beautiful to me in the old Mass, the Gloria. The new one sounds ugly to my ears and all these months later I can’t get used to it. All of these factors combined have left me feeling very unhappy, feeling very out of place in the Catholic church and is only shining the spotlight on my doubts.

I pray all the time that I will find some answers and find the direction I should go, and how I can increase my faith. I find that doing so feels like it’s leading me toward a non-Catholic church. I know what the apologetics say about the “real presence”, why the Catholic church teaches what it does about Mary and the saints and confessing to a priest, etc - but I’m afraid that knowing that isn’t making me believe it. I realize that I’m not supposed to be at church for entertainment, but aren’t we supposed to be able to develop relationships with other believers? I’ve tried three different parishes, for a total of 6 months to two years each, and no one at any of the three parishes have been friendly to my family. But it’s not just about being lonely - it’s that very often I feel like an outsider in the Catholic church, maybe because I didn’t grow up in it? Maybe if I grew up in it, I’d have an easier time believing in all the doctrines. I try to believe, but honestly it just doesn’t make sense.

I just feel really lost. I have no good Catholic mentors and cannot find any. Mass services seem completely lifeless to me, despite the fact that we’re supposed to believe in the real presence of Christ in the eucharist - but if there really was Jesus in the eucharist, wouldn’t somebody seem like they were moved with emotion instead of just robotically going through the motions and rushing out of there as soon as possible? Nobody seems to have any joy, not even in the Gloria.

Honestly the overwhelming focus on politics has also been a huge turnoff, albeit a secondary one. I understand why the Catholic church is against birth control and agree with that stance, but hearing a letter from my Bishop read during Mass about why I have to side with one political party offends me and seems like a huge violation of tax exempt status. I don’t expect that view to be popular here and I’m sorry for that, I’m not trying to be offensive. But when I became Catholic I thought I was choosing a religion, not religion AND politics.

I’m disillusioned and lost, and I’ve given this a lot of time and a lot of prayer over the past year. Maybe I’m not supposed to be Catholic anyway, because I’ve never been comfortable with praying pre-written prayers, including the rosary. I pray several times a day, but only free-form prayer directly to Jesus. I do feel that I sometimes hear the voice of God as a response to prayer, and as much as I want to God to reveal that the Catholic church is truth for me, it isn’t happening. If anything my doubts about the truth of the Catholic church are increasing the more I pray and read the Bible? For the sake of family harmony it would be best if I could get back to how things were in the beginning, but how can I force myself to believe?
 
Just by reading over your post, the clear answer to why you are so stuck is that you are not sure that you believe in transubstantiation, the Real Presence. My suggestion is you stop focusing on all the bells and whistles, and try focusing solely on the Eucharist. I urge you to make a Holy Hour of Adoration, and just be with Christ alone, silently. See what happens (in your heart)…
Additionally, start reading the Catechism; if you have already read it, read it again. I also urge you to go to Confession, possibly make a special appointment with your parish priest to share these doubts you are having. Remember, its not so much about the priest when receiving these sacraments or attending mass, as it is JESUS, the Holy Trinity! If you are receiving the Eucharist, I am not sure if you should continue receiving while denying the Real Presence…someone correct me if I am wrong? I would suggest continue going to Mass while you discern your faith. I will keep you in my prayers tonight.
 
3xblessed said:
Background: my husband, children and I converted two years ago at Easter vigil. We came in with a really charismatic (but theologically sound; not at all radical) amazing priest, who was transferred less than a year later. I had some theological issues that were difficult for me in the conversion process, including the fact that I wasn’t sure I really believed in the concepts of transubstantiation, or the veneration of saints or praying to Mary. My husband fully believed in all of it, but I admit that I was mostly just going along with it. I really enjoyed attending Mass back then despite my doubts, because I had a great priest who truly seemed like he was imitating Christ and I loved the music.

Since that great priest was transferred out of the parish, I’m completely lost. We never really met anyone in our parish so we’ve tried a couple different parishes, finally settling on one but still not meeting anyone. We get involved in parish activities and no one talks to us at all. While the priest in our current parish is fine, he’s also not inspiring at all in the way the first priest was and frankly all the priests since that first one seem like they’re just going through the motions. Then there was the liturgy change and now they’ve taken away one of the things that was most meaningful and beautiful to me in the old Mass, the Gloria. The new one sounds ugly to my ears and all these months later I can’t get used to it. All of these factors combined have left me feeling very unhappy, feeling very out of place in the Catholic church and is only shining the spotlight on my doubts.

I pray all the time that I will find some answers and find the direction I should go, and how I can increase my faith. I find that doing so feels like it’s leading me toward a non-Catholic church. I know what the apologetics say about the “real presence”, why the Catholic church teaches what it does about Mary and the saints and confessing to a priest, etc - but I’m afraid that knowing that isn’t making me believe it. I realize that I’m not supposed to be at church for entertainment, but aren’t we supposed to be able to develop relationships with other believers? I’ve tried three different parishes, for a total of 6 months to two years each, and no one at any of the three parishes have been friendly to my family. But it’s not just about being lonely - it’s that very often I feel like an outsider in the Catholic church, maybe because I didn’t grow up in it? Maybe if I grew up in it, I’d have an easier time believing in all the doctrines. I try to believe, but honestly it just doesn’t make sense.

I just feel really lost. I have no good Catholic mentors and cannot find any. Mass services seem completely lifeless to me, despite the fact that we’re supposed to believe in the real presence of Christ in the eucharist - but if there really was Jesus in the eucharist, wouldn’t somebody seem like they were moved with emotion instead of just robotically going through the motions and rushing out of there as soon as possible? Nobody seems to have any joy, not even in the Gloria.

Honestly the overwhelming focus on politics has also been a huge turnoff, albeit a secondary one. I understand why the Catholic church is against birth control and agree with that stance, but hearing a letter from my Bishop read during Mass about why I have to side with one political party offends me and seems like a huge violation of tax exempt status. I don’t expect that view to be popular here and I’m sorry for that, I’m not trying to be offensive. But when I became Catholic I thought I was choosing a religion, not religion AND politics.

I’m disillusioned and lost, and I’ve given this a lot of time and a lot of prayer over the past year. Maybe I’m not supposed to be Catholic anyway, because I’ve never been comfortable with praying pre-written prayers, including the rosary. I pray several times a day, but only free-form prayer directly to Jesus. I do feel that I sometimes hear the voice of God as a response to prayer, and as much as I want to God to reveal that the Catholic church is truth for me, it isn’t happening. If anything my doubts about the truth of the Catholic church are increasing the more I pray and read the Bible? For the sake of family harmony it would be best if I could get back to how things were in the beginning, but how can I force myself to believe?
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I think that you are confusing believing and feeling. To believe is to know without feeling or understanding.
I think you are on the right-right-right path.
Pre-formed prayers are essential because we do not know how to pray. Jesus taught us the sacred formula of the Holy Father.
Google= dark night of St. Theresa and St. John of the Cross. And also Mother Theresa of Calcutta. Dark Night is where you pray+pray+pray but God does not give you the consolation that used to give. God is testing you.
So, for me, you are with the Great Saints.
 
3xblessed said:
I’m disillusioned and lost, and I’ve given this a lot of time and a lot of prayer over the past year. Maybe I’m not supposed to be Catholic anyway, because I’ve never been comfortable with praying pre-written prayers, including the rosary. I pray several times a day, but only free-form prayer directly to Jesus. I do feel that I sometimes hear the voice of God as a response to prayer, and as much as I want to God to reveal that the Catholic church is truth for me, it isn’t happening. If anything my doubts about the truth of the Catholic church are increasing the more I pray and read the Bible? For the sake of family harmony it would be best if I could get back to how things were in the beginning, but how can I force myself to believe?
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A great Cd you should check out is called Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucahrists By Dr Brant Pitre… He shows, only the sacred scripture, how many scriptural events, like the Passover, The manna in the desert and the Bread of the Presence are foreshadowings of the Eucharist: Here is a dissertation:
Read Exodus 25:23-30
The 1) Ark of the Covenant, (Father!) 2) The Golden Lampstand (he Holy Spirit!) and 3) The Bread of the Presence (Jesus the son)
  1. The Ark of the Covenant was the throne of God!
  2. The Golden Lampstand was referred to as the Menorah… It had 7 candles on it, which were to be lit ALL THE TIME!
  3. The bread of the presence was to be set on a Golden table and put inside the holy place!
    So when you came into the tabernacle, on the right you would have the Golden Table, to the left, you would have the Menorah (Tongues of fire! PENTACOST!) , in front of you would be a veil…. Behind the vale, would be the Ark of the Covenant. There were 3 symbols. Here we have The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, hidden in the old tabernacle of the old testament!
    Read Leviticus 24:1-9
  4. There were 12CAKES ( Which represented the 12 tribes) Set out on the Sabbath, as a sacrifice to the Lord!
  5. This bread ( Cake!) is a perpetual dew, to be continually before the Lord as a covenant forever.
  6. The Lampstand had to burn CONTINUALLY, with the bread!
  7. The Bread of the Presence was sacred
  8. The Translation of THE BREAD OF THE PRESENCE has 2 meanings: 1) Hebrew translation: Presence and 2) Face. The BREAD OF THE FACE! It is an unbloody sacrifice… also, wine
    Exodus 25:29 And you shall make its dishes, and its spoons, and its covers, and its bowls for pouring: of pure gold shall you make them.
    This is to show the bread and the wine of the Presence!
    A) Read 1 Samuel 21: 1-6 The priests were abstain from relations, when being priest. While they were sacrificing, they would do their priestly duties! Reference this to Matthew 12: 1-8 What could be greater than the Temple? It was the dwelling place of God on earth…. Except when God HIMSELF (Jesus!) is there! Jesus is saying I am like David (Being the King!) Jesus Apostles are like Davids followers. David and his followers could work, on the Sabbath, so to, could Jesus’ followers. Jesus. The Priests themselves work on the Sabbath, and are guiltless. So, Jesus is making the Apostles the Priests of the New Covenant! What does the Priest do on the Sabbath? He offers the BREAD OF THE PRESENCE!
    D) Jesus is the new Temple. The Apostles are the Priests. The Apostles were plucking Grain, which makes bread! Remember the fact that the New Covenant is better than the old? How is it the Jews, during that time knew about the Eucharist?
 
I feel for you.

I have felt stuck before and many of your questions I have also had from time to time in my life.

Of course, think about it; why would God who is God become a different form?

Why would he become a lowly man?

Then to become of all things … bread?! Really!

Since you believe in Jesus Christ … and you believe he is who he said he is? That he is the “I AM”, God?

Then the next step might be to believe in what he said.

“This is my body.”

Now, regards the feelings of being “not part of” the Church, or your parish, or the members of your Parish.

Now, that I really relate too. Often the sense of isolation is so overwhelming, but it seems to me that the feeling is not about the reality.

Putting aside if I may feel isolated from my parish or any one group, I absolutely know, not just as a Christian or Catholic that no one is isolated. We are all part of and more integrally both part and a whole of everyone and everything. But, my feelings…

I have often, also felt great joy and THAT is a GIFT. I can not demand I feel that joy, or love, charity, compassion - these higher feelings are gifts and when I demand them like a child demanding ice cream, in the very “demanding” I can not be “available” for the gifts.

So, what do I do when I feel as you have felt, when my intellect is too great for faith?

I believe.

What! You may say, but that is the problem I can’t believe.

Belief is NOT a feeling, it is not a rational exposition from known facts or logical deductions.

To belief is to ACT. To put one foot in front of the other. It is not necessarily redoubling my efforts, but to do the next thing in front or me, which as it is in front of me is there because God put it there.

So in front of you is these feelings and these doubts, so tell everyone, tell us, them, or husband, your pastors, the people in the parish in the groups you attend what you are feeling and thinking.

There are no “wrong” or “bad” feelings, doubts are the human “being sinful” and human response to the “challenge” of faith. “My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?”

I encourage you also, most of all to help others. To act in “charity”.

When we are “acting” in charity, we are not feeling or thinking about our loneliness, doubts. We are concentrating on the other.

This may be your cross, I know it is so for many, to give, not to receive, to love and maybe not be loved, to have compassion and not expect compassion in return.

I certainly do not think that having doubts excludes you from receiving the Eucharist, if you have told your confessor of your doubts, in fact it is the function of the Eucharist to cleanse us, and free us, not to feel better or have no doubts, but to give ourselves to the world.

If you were crying and your child entered the room you would wipe your tears away, turn to your child with a smile on your lips and give to your child. Not because you were happy, but because you desire your child to be happy.

I have some basic practical suggestions:

Some good inspirational readings include Thomas Merton and I particularly like The Seven Story Mountain, which is his conversion story. C.S. Lewis is great for inspiration and his conversion story is Surprised by Joy. I especially have enjoyed Lewis’s The Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity, The Problem of Pain may be especially applicable and his space trilogy, Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength are great.

You may find Fulton Sheen inspirational (btw you may have noticed that ALL three of these are converts)

Fulton Sheen’s catechism can be found here: fisheaters.com/sheen.html and you can find many of his videos on YouTube, as well as many of his books, which some of the clearest writing on the Catholic Faith I know.

If you want to get a bit deeper I like Étienne Gilson’s book The Christian Philosophy Of St Thomas Aquinas, which I found inspirational, this may not be the case, but what is also good with this is the deeper rational understanding, better yet the underpinnings of the theology of our faith. Which could help with reasoning aspect of many of the things you say you have doubts concerning.

As another post indicated. You might tell your pastor and any others you can of your struggles. Some responses may not be what you wanted, then search out more, if you wish. I had had times when priest I spoken to was not as responsive as I would have liked. Of course, it could have been just a bad day. 😉

Finally, I am not a cradle Catholic, I converted many years ago now. I have felt good, I have felt bad, I have sinned often, all too often, I have come back. A simple reading every day, highly inspirational is St. Francis Assisi prayer:

"Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life."

Because that is following Christ.

God bless,
 
We get involved in parish activities and no one talks to us at all.
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I am not sure what you mean here. It depends on what kind of activities you participate. If it is a social activity, you can always initiate the conversation, introduce yourself and get to know people. You don’t have to wait for people come to talk to you. If you just stay self contained with your own family then it is very possible no one comes to talk to you. You get the food and drink, sit on a table with your own family until the activity is over. No one comes to your table and you end up with only talking to your own spouse and children. This has been my own experience for many years. Catholics are not good at fellowships. It seems we are all waiting for others to take the initiative.

The best way to know people and make friends is to join groups such as Small Church Community, Bible Study, Knight of Columbus, Columbiettes, etc. Those groups meet regularly week after week. It is not possible for anyone not to make some friends in those groups. This has also been my own experience.
 
3xblessed said:
Background: my husband, children and I converted two years ago at Easter vigil. We came in with a really charismatic (but theologically sound; not at all radical) amazing priest, who was transferred less than a year later. I had some theological issues that were difficult for me in the conversion process, including the fact that I wasn’t sure I really believed in the concepts of transubstantiation, or the veneration of saints or praying to Mary. My husband fully believed in all of it, but I admit that I was mostly just going along with it. I really enjoyed attending Mass back then despite my doubts, because I had a great priest who truly seemed like he was imitating Christ and I loved the music.

Since that great priest was transferred out of the parish, I’m completely lost. We never really met anyone in our parish so we’ve tried a couple different parishes, finally settling on one but still not meeting anyone. We get involved in parish activities and no one talks to us at all. While the priest in our current parish is fine, he’s also not inspiring at all in the way the first priest was and frankly all the priests since that first one seem like they’re just going through the motions. Then there was the liturgy change and now they’ve taken away one of the things that was most meaningful and beautiful to me in the old Mass, the Gloria. The new one sounds ugly to my ears and all these months later I can’t get used to it. All of these factors combined have left me feeling very unhappy, feeling very out of place in the Catholic church and is only shining the spotlight on my doubts.

I pray all the time that I will find some answers and find the direction I should go, and how I can increase my faith. I find that doing so feels like it’s leading me toward a non-Catholic church. I know what the apologetics say about the “real presence”, why the Catholic church teaches what it does about Mary and the saints and confessing to a priest, etc - but I’m afraid that knowing that isn’t making me believe it. I realize that I’m not supposed to be at church for entertainment, but aren’t we supposed to be able to develop relationships with other believers? I’ve tried three different parishes, for a total of 6 months to two years each, and no one at any of the three parishes have been friendly to my family. But it’s not just about being lonely - it’s that very often I feel like an outsider in the Catholic church, maybe because I didn’t grow up in it? Maybe if I grew up in it, I’d have an easier time believing in all the doctrines. I try to believe, but honestly it just doesn’t make sense.

I just feel really lost. I have no good Catholic mentors and cannot find any. Mass services seem completely lifeless to me, despite the fact that we’re supposed to believe in the real presence of Christ in the eucharist - but if there really was Jesus in the eucharist, wouldn’t somebody seem like they were moved with emotion instead of just robotically going through the motions and rushing out of there as soon as possible? Nobody seems to have any joy, not even in the Gloria.

Honestly the overwhelming focus on politics has also been a huge turnoff, albeit a secondary one. I understand why the Catholic church is against birth control and agree with that stance, but hearing a letter from my Bishop read during Mass about why I have to side with one political party offends me and seems like a huge violation of tax exempt status. I don’t expect that view to be popular here and I’m sorry for that, I’m not trying to be offensive. But when I became Catholic I thought I was choosing a religion, not religion AND politics.

I’m disillusioned and lost, and I’ve given this a lot of time and a lot of prayer over the past year. Maybe I’m not supposed to be Catholic anyway, because I’ve never been comfortable with praying pre-written prayers, including the rosary. I pray several times a day, but only free-form prayer directly to Jesus. I do feel that I sometimes hear the voice of God as a response to prayer, and as much as I want to God to reveal that the Catholic church is truth for me, it isn’t happening. If anything my doubts about the truth of the Catholic church are increasing the more I pray and read the Bible? For the sake of family harmony it would be best if I could get back to how things were in the beginning, but how can I force myself to believe?
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Just to let you know, I will pray for you and all of your loved ones. May God always bless you and all of your loved ones! 😃
 
3xblessed said:
Honestly the overwhelming focus on politics has also been a huge turnoff, albeit a secondary one. I understand why the Catholic church is against birth control and agree with that stance, but hearing a letter from my Bishop read during Mass about why I have to side with one political party offends me and seems like a huge violation of tax exempt status. I don’t expect that view to be popular here and I’m sorry for that, I’m not trying to be offensive. But when I became Catholic I thought I was choosing a religion, not religion AND politics.
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Any links to the bishop’s letter where he specifically asks parishioners to side with a particular political party, so that others can independently verify your characterizations?
 
Stylites said:
Any links to the bishop’s letter where he specifically asks parishioners to side with a particular political party, so that others can independently verify your characterizations?
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I’ve looked online and I can’t find a written version of the letter; it was read by all the priests in my diocese during mass. It was part of that time a couple months ago when many bishops across the country made statements against the HHS mandate. Mine specifically urged us to “fight the Obama administration.” It rubbed me the wrong way and there was a handful of people who noticeably walked out during that letter being read, so I don’t think I was the only one offended by it. I apologize for including that in my initial post though; I actually tried to delete that part last night because I didn’t want this to be the focus of my post, but I was outside the time window for editing my post.

However, the “prove it” part of your post is something I see often in Catholic forums, which has left me with the very distinct impression that being a devout Catholic is about who has the best understanding of the rules. To me that feels like it’s moving away from the spirit of Jesus and is moving into legalism. I concede that it may not have been your point. What I am looking for now though, and why I am struggling so much with being Catholic lately, is some type of sign that the spirit is at work, particularly during the mass. Right now I feel like being Catholic is more about crossing all your t’s and dotting all your i’s than developing a real relationship with Jesus.
 
3xblessed said:
What I am looking for now though, and why I am struggling so much with being Catholic lately, is some type of sign that the spirit is at work, particularly during the mass. Right now I feel like being Catholic is more about crossing all your t’s and dotting all your i’s than developing a real relationship with Jesus.
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I hear your point here…for me, the Spirit is definitely at work during the mass, but it is very mysterious, very solemn, and at times silent. For me, the mass is the source of the goodness and workings of the Spirit, but in order to really see the Spirit at work, you would have to see the people of the Church living their daily lives, seeing what struggles they go through and overcome, and the good works they do in the community until the next mass, where they go to get rejuvenated.
I see the Spirit at work in your discernment right now, actually; I believe the Spirit is leading you to seek counsel and to revive your faith. Just as it has done and is doing for me. I think one way to see the Spirit at work, is to look within. Its a lifelong conversion process that takes time, patience, and perseverance. You continue to be in my prayers…
 
3xblessed said:
However, the “prove it” part of your post is something I see often in Catholic forums, which has left me with the very distinct impression that being a devout Catholic is about who has the best understanding of the rules. To me that feels like it’s moving away from the spirit of Jesus and is moving into legalism. I concede that it may not have been your point. What I am looking for now though, and why I am struggling so much with being Catholic lately, is some type of sign that the spirit is at work, particularly during the mass. Right now I feel like being Catholic is more about crossing all your t’s and dotting all your i’s than developing a real relationship with Jesus.
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Be careful, anyone can “feel” like they have a great relationship with Jesus, but how well do we really know him? When Mary and Joseph were looking for Jesus, they found him not where they thought he would be, but in the temple(!), which could be erroneously considered a very “legalistic” place. A true loving relationship with Jesus must recognize the basis of his relationship with his Father, and keeping of his commandments. Yes, legalism without love is a dry thing, but love without direction is misguided – you need both for a real relationship with him.

PS. This can be an extraordinarily difficult thing to do, possibly among the most difficult challenges of your life. And, the learning is lifelong. At least it is so for me.
 
3xblessed said:
I’ve looked online and I can’t find a written version of the letter; it was read by all the priests in my diocese during mass. It was part of that time a couple months ago when many bishops across the country made statements against the HHS mandate. Mine specifically urged us to “fight the Obama administration.” It rubbed me the wrong way and there was a handful of people who noticeably walked out during that letter being read, so I don’t think I was the only one offended by it. I apologize for including that in my initial post though; I actually tried to delete that part last night because I didn’t want this to be the focus of my post, but I was outside the time window for editing my post.

However, the “prove it” part of your post is something I see often in Catholic forums, which has left me with the very distinct impression that being a devout Catholic is about who has the best understanding of the rules. To me that feels like it’s moving away from the spirit of Jesus and is moving into legalism. I concede that it may not have been your point. What I am looking for now though, and why I am struggling so much with being Catholic lately, is some type of sign that the spirit is at work, particularly during the mass. Right now I feel like being Catholic is more about crossing all your t’s and dotting all your i’s than developing a real relationship with Jesus.
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The T’s and I’s in my question to you was specific to the security of the diocese’s tax exempt status, where there are rules established by the IRS. Your post seemed to state that the bishop had crossed the line, where you wrote:
. . . but hearing a letter from my Bishop read during Mass about why I have to side with one political party offends me and seems like a huge violation of tax exempt status.
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As if criticizing an administration and its policies which directly affect the Church and her great works of compassion is somehow engaging in partisan electioneering, which it is not.
 
I pray that you find peace, and obtain answers to your questions. May God bless you.
 
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