Why am I struggling with this?

[spunjalebi]

Over the course of a couple years, I’ve done some heavy thinking about abortion and what it means in terms of the unborn. Logic tells me that a life is a life–therefore life begins at conception and an abortion at any trimester is the killing of a child. Logic also tells me that the worth of a child should not be determined by the origination of the child or parentage-- such as if the child was born and literally dumped in a trash bin (which unfortunately has happened) or if the child was conceived due to a rape (which we all know happens). I also think that as a woman, we should not deny an unborn child’s right in order to further our own rights. In essence, abortion is wrong. After going through a sort-of-pro-life phase to a pro-choice phase to another sort-of-pro-life phase and then to a sort-of-pro-choice-for-others phase to now a more pro-life phase, it’s sort of making full circle (I’ve gone back and forth on this issue since I was a teenager).

Yet I still struggle with the idea of telling a woman or child who has been raped that she is going to have to carry the pregnancy and have that baby, because I believe abortion is wrong. But I know that it wasn’t the woman’s fault why she was raped, and the child didn’t ask to be conceived because the pregnancy wasn’t wanted nor was there even an “openness” to it (I’m assuming most of these women aren’t married), yet I can’t help but think that I am denying the woman’s right to somehow heal through that trauma by giving birth to the rapist’s child. But–the worth of the child shouldn’t be contingent on its parents or conception situation. And I also don’t think aborting the child helps erase the memories of the rape, nor do I think it punishes the rapist but instead removes consequence from him and places it all on the woman.

But–(I told you I was struggling), it makes me sick to my stomach to think that I would have to tell a woman who was raped and became pregnant as a result this. And it makes me even more sick to think about it because it could have easily happened to me since I was sexually molested as a child (and I developed early as well). I try to talk to my husband about this, but he usually gives me dismissive answers such as “it’s not about you, it’s about the baby,” or “you should choose life anyway.”

I know abortion is wrong, so why am I struggling with this? Honestly if rape NEVER EVER happened, I’d have no issues with being 100% pro-life. But instead I’m a pathetic lukewarm

 

[thirdworld]

Yet I still struggle with the idea of telling a woman or child who has been raped that she is going to have to carry the pregnancy and have that baby, because I believe abortion is wrong. But I know that it wasn’t the woman’s fault why she was raped, and the child didn’t ask to be conceived because the pregnancy wasn’t wanted nor was there even an “openness” to it (I’m assuming most of these women aren’t married), yet I can’t help but think that I am denying the woman’s right to somehow heal through that trauma by giving birth to the rapist’s child. But–the worth of the child shouldn’t be contingent on its parents or conception situation. And I also don’t think aborting the child helps erase the memories of the rape, nor do I think it punishes the rapist but instead removes consequence from him and places it all on the woman.

I’m a no exceptions pro-life woman. I’ve had some struggles with the idea of a raped woman being forced to carry her rapist’s child to term but here’s the thing. You use the word “fault” as if a child is a punishment inflicted upon the woman. A child is anything but–a child is a blessing. It says so in the Bible. The problem IS NOT that the woman is pregnant, it is how the child was conceived…not the child him/herself. So getting an abortion (murdering the child) is not the solution since it doesn’t deal with the REAL problem which is the rape. All rape victims NEED counseling. They need support from friends, family, God, and spiritual leaders. It is certainly painful to deal with a constant reminder that you were raped during the pregnancy, but killing a child is yet another injustice. It adds insult to injury. Murder is murder. Abortion is murder. It doesn’t stop being murder just because the child was conceived through rape. Another thing to remember is that while the mother has to give birth to her child, she doesn’t have to raise it. She can always put it up for adoption if she feels she’s unfit to be a mother. Abortion is NOT a legitimate option for dealing with the pain of rape.

 

[andyandely1997]

Post #2 made some good points, along with using reason to defend all life. I know someone personally, who was raped and brought the baby into this world. And her daughter is a beautiful person. God can bring good out of evil, even rape. Below is a link on James Robison, who was conceived from a rape. Look at all the good, which came from the initial evil act. The mothers who bring their babies into the world from rape, carry their cross for a greater good.

lifetoday.org/site/PageServer?pagename=abt_robison

 

[spunjalebi]

Another reason why this struggle doesn’t get any easier is after reading what Sharon Angle said about rape victims getting pregnant:

huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/08/sharron-angles-advice-for_n_639294.html

“Make lemonade.” Ugh, ouch?! I’ve never seen or heard of such a flippant and vacuous response in my life.

How about situations where if a woman decided to keep the pregnancy to term, the rapist tried to file for parental rights? To be honest it’s always an argument I’ve heard, but I’ve never been able to look up an actual case of that happening. But that thought sickens me as well.

 

[MadameButterfly]

spunjalebi,

While it may seem compassionate to advocate for an abortion after a rape, if society really knew how an abortion further traumatizes a rape victim, we wouldn’t be so quick to support it.

I’m a survivor of rape and at one point in time, I thought I was pregnant as a result. My first thought was abortion . As I was mulling things over in my mind, I learnt of my cousin’s 7-yr struggle with infertility and I thought, “my cousin desperately wants a baby and here I am thinking about destroying mine.” I gave myself the proverbial smack upside the head and determined that adoption was the only option (the pregnancy test was negative, thank God).

Ten years later, when I finally got the therapy I needed, I met numerous rape survivors. Except for one woman, all the survivors who had an abortion regretted it and said it made their healing even harder.

I especially remember an incest victim whose father impregnated her at age 13 and forced her to have an abortion. The abuse continued and she was pregnant again a few years later. This time, she refused to have an abortion and placed her baby for adoption. Not only did the abuse finally stop, but she said that placing her child for adoption was easier than dealing with the aftermath of abortion.

Another story that really moved me was that of a young women who was raped after her babysitting job (father of the children she was watching). She had an abortion and ended up with a drinking problem. When she said, “I can deal with the rape, but I can’t forgive myself for getting an abortion,” I cried for her.

Women are traumatized by rape and abortion does NOT help the survivor heal; you pile an abortion trauma on top of the rape trauma. You end up with either a survivor who crumbles under that weight of that trauma, or they become hard and bitter (and write some vile play called the “V-Monologues”).

After my experience with other rape survivors, my Pro-Life position has strengthened and I’ve become a bit frustrated with cavalier attitude of the “…except for rape & incest” position of some people. If they only knew…

MadameButterfly

 

[gardenswithkids]

…Yet I still struggle with the idea of telling a woman or child who has been raped that she is going to have to carry the pregnancy and have that baby, because I believe abortion is wrong…But–(I told you I was struggling), it makes me sick to my stomach to think that I would have to tell a woman who was raped and became pregnant as a result this. **And it makes me even more sick to think about it because it could have easily happened to me since I was sexually molested as a child (and I developed early as well). **I try to talk to my husband about this, but he usually gives me dismissive answers such as “it’s not about you, it’s about the baby,” or “you should choose life anyway.”

I know abortion is wrong, so why am I struggling with this? Honestly if rape NEVER EVER happened, I’d have no issues with being 100% pro-life. But instead I’m a pathetic lukewarm

Hello. You struggles with this may stem from the sexual molestation you suffered as a child. I offer you my prayers and sympathies regarding that. How terrible!

The young woman who gets pregnant as a result of rape or sexual molestation carries genetic proof of who the rapist is. It benefits the rapist when that “genetic proof” is aborted. Abortion “destroys the evidence,” so to speak.

Rape is a crime. Instead of destroying the babies that result from rape, we should prosecute rapists. Babies conceived through rape can help their mothers bear witness against their fathers.

I don’t think you are “pathetically luke-warm.” I think your abuser left you deeply wounded. Again, my prayers for you.

 

[RosaryFan]

Food for thought for all you who struggle with the abortion issue because of rape victims: Only one-tenth of one percent of abortions are performed on rape victims.

 

[Newbie2]

Post #2 made some good points, along with using reason to defend all life. I know someone personally, who was raped and brought the baby into this world. And her daughter is a beautiful person. God can bring good out of evil, even rape. Below is a link on James Robison, who was conceived from a rape. Look at all the good, which came from the initial evil act. The mothers who bring their babies into the world from rape, carry their cross for a greater good.
lifetoday.org/site/PageServer?pagename=abt_robison

Wow.

Never heard it put in these exact words before.

Thanks

 

[Monica4316]

Over the course of a couple years, I’ve done some heavy thinking about abortion and what it means in terms of the unborn. Logic tells me that a life is a life–therefore life begins at conception and an abortion at any trimester is the killing of a child. Logic also tells me that the worth of a child should not be determined by the origination of the child or parentage-- such as if the child was born and literally dumped in a trash bin (which unfortunately has happened) or if the child was conceived due to a rape (which we all know happens). I also think that as a woman, we should not deny an unborn child’s right in order to further our own rights. In essence, abortion is wrong. After going through a sort-of-pro-life phase to a pro-choice phase to another sort-of-pro-life phase and then to a sort-of-pro-choice-for-others phase to now a more pro-life phase, it’s sort of making full circle (I’ve gone back and forth on this issue since I was a teenager).

Yet I still struggle with the idea of telling a woman or child who has been raped that she is going to have to carry the pregnancy and have that baby, because I believe abortion is wrong. But I know that it wasn’t the woman’s fault why she was raped, and the child didn’t ask to be conceived because the pregnancy wasn’t wanted nor was there even an “openness” to it (I’m assuming most of these women aren’t married), yet I can’t help but think that I am denying the woman’s right to somehow heal through that trauma by giving birth to the rapist’s child. But–the worth of the child shouldn’t be contingent on its parents or conception situation. And I also don’t think aborting the child helps erase the memories of the rape, nor do I think it punishes the rapist but instead removes consequence from him and places it all on the woman.

But–(I told you I was struggling), it makes me sick to my stomach to think that I would have to tell a woman who was raped and became pregnant as a result this. And it makes me even more sick to think about it because it could have easily happened to me since I was sexually molested as a child (and I developed early as well). I try to talk to my husband about this, but he usually gives me dismissive answers such as “it’s not about you, it’s about the baby,” or “you should choose life anyway.”

I know abortion is wrong, so why am I struggling with this? Honestly if rape NEVER EVER happened, I’d have no issues with being 100% pro-life. But instead I’m a pathetic lukewarm

Yesterday I came across a website where women shared their experiences with abortion. Some women were raped and chose abortion, and they later regretted that choice. Abortion doesn’t solve the problem… it doesn’t heal… and it doesn’t take away the rape. It only makes things WORSE. Not better. Also, I’d switch the question around and ask - can we really say that the baby must die because of the way they were conceived? Rape is horrible but abortion only creates another casualty.

Here are some stories that I found very inspiring…
rebeccakiessling.com/
youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ
youtube.com/watch?v=k8B1nKGIAeg

and here is a website where women share their experiences with abortion:
abortionchangesyou.com/explore?exploreArtFilter=all

God bless

 

[spunjalebi]

None of this helps me feel better about telling a woman who is pregnant from a rape. I understand that feelings don’t mean much…but to me, they do.

 

[puzzleannie]

O
yet I can’t help but think that I am denying the woman’s right to somehow heal through that trauma by giving birth to the rapist’s child.

the logic you have already followed has given you your answer.
good logic rests on good assumptions and premises, and your premise is false, therefore the conclusion is false. Abortion does nothing to heal the trauma of rape, in fact it adds more trauma and is another violent assault upon the woman herself as well as the unborn innocent child. Therefore to prescribe abortion as healing makes as much sense as shooting oneself in the head to “heal” a trauma.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Over the course of a couple years, I’ve done some heavy thinking about abortion and what it means in terms of the unborn. Logic tells me that a life is a life–therefore life begins at conception and an abortion at any trimester is the killing of a child. Logic also tells me that the worth of a child should not be determined by the origination of the child or parentage-- such as if the child was born and literally dumped in a trash bin (which unfortunately has happened) or if the child was conceived due to a rape (which we all know happens). I also think that as a woman, we should not deny an unborn child’s right in order to further our own rights. In essence, abortion is wrong. After going through a sort-of-pro-life phase to a pro-choice phase to another sort-of-pro-life phase and then to a sort-of-pro-choice-for-others phase to now a more pro-life phase, it’s sort of making full circle (I’ve gone back and forth on this issue since I was a teenager).

Yet I still struggle with the idea of telling a woman or child who has been raped that she is going to have to carry the pregnancy and have that baby, because I believe abortion is wrong. But I know that it wasn’t the woman’s fault why she was raped, and the child didn’t ask to be conceived because the pregnancy wasn’t wanted nor was there even an “openness” to it (I’m assuming most of these women aren’t married), yet I can’t help but think that I am denying the woman’s right to somehow heal through that trauma by giving birth to the rapist’s child. But–the worth of the child shouldn’t be contingent on its parents or conception situation. And I also don’t think aborting the child helps erase the memories of the rape, nor do I think it punishes the rapist but instead removes consequence from him and places it all on the woman.

But–(I told you I was struggling), it makes me sick to my stomach to think that I would have to tell a woman who was raped and became pregnant as a result this. And it makes me even more sick to think about it because it could have easily happened to me since I was sexually molested as a child (and I developed early as well). I try to talk to my husband about this, but he usually gives me dismissive answers such as “it’s not about you, it’s about the baby,” or “you should choose life anyway.”

I know abortion is wrong, so why am I struggling with this? Honestly if rape NEVER EVER happened, I’d have no issues with being 100% pro-life. But instead I’m a pathetic lukewarm

Having not read all the posts here, I am going to wade right in anyway.

Even in the case of Rape abortion is wrong (see thirdworld’s post above). The Child is always and in every situation a blessing. That does not mean that you have to raise a child that was not your decision to make. A friend of mine (well, more of an acquaintance really) found out when she was 23 that she had a 28-30 year old sister. Her older sister came because her mother was raped at 16 and gave the baby up for adoption.

Is it truly fair to punish the son for the sins of the father? If that were acceptable then I would be on death row… or at least in prison for a long long time.

There is no circumstance that can possibly warrant the killing of a child before they have the opportunity to live.

FSC

 

[gardenswithkids]

None of this helps me feel better about telling a woman who is pregnant from a rape. I understand that feelings don’t mean much…but to me, they do.

Why do you feel that you need to do that? Do you know someone who is currently pregnant as a result of rape?

Many (most?) women who support abortion do that because they feel they might “need” or may have “needed” an abortion at some time. I think that is the case with you.

I believe that your feelings do matter–and I believe your feelings on the subject relate far more to your own history of abuse. Have you gone to good counselling to help you deal with your past abuse?

 

[illmatic]

Can abortion not be justified in certain situations and not in others?

 

[spunjalebi]

the logic you have already followed has given you your answer.
good logic rests on good assumptions and premises, and your premise is false, therefore the conclusion is false. Abortion does nothing to heal the trauma of rape, in fact it adds more trauma and is another violent assault upon the woman herself as well as the unborn innocent child. Therefore to prescribe abortion as healing makes as much sense as shooting oneself in the head to “heal” a trauma.

If you read my ENTIRE post you would see how I worded my argument. That’s why in a different part of my OP I said "I can’t help but feel versus the first part of my post.

 

[bingbang]

Food for thought for all you who struggle with the abortion issue because of rape victims: Only one-tenth of one percent of abortions are performed on rape victims.

That is how I thought about it too…until someone I am extremely close to told me that she was raped and got pregnant. It was her first year in college and she was drugged at a party. She ended up getting an abortion and it is something I can’t fault her for.

 

[RosaryFan]

Can abortion not be justified in certain situations and not in others?

The taking of an innocent human life can never be justified. Never. That is why abortion is “intrinsically” evil.

 

[RosaryFan]

That is how I thought about it too…until someone I am extremely close to told me that she was raped and got pregnant. It was her first year in college and she was drugged at a party. She ended up getting an abortion and it is something I can’t fault her for.

I never fault the woman who gets the abortion. I fault the lawmakers and supporters of abortion. Someone once said (I can’t remember who) that a woman seeking an abortion is like a deer caught in the headlights. They, too, are victims. However, abortion as a result of rape is not something that should be supported. It is still taking an innocent human life. That baby is not to blame even more so than the rape victim. God has given that child the gift of life and it is no one’s right to take it away.

 

[spunjalebi]

I never fault the woman who gets the abortion. I fault the lawmakers and supporters of abortion. Someone once said (I can’t remember who) that a woman seeking an abortion is like a deer caught in the headlights. They, too, are victims. However, abortion as a result of rape is not something that should be supported. It is still taking an innocent human life. That baby is not to blame even more so than the rape victim. God has given that child the gift of life and it is no one’s right to take it away.

I never thought of it this way, but I think you may have a point there. Oftentimes when there are conservative politicians who are against elective abortions, they add a disclaimer stating that they are okay with abortions for “rape, incest, and threat to mother’s life.” I have yet to hear of a politician who will look at these kinds of circumstances in a way that exudes compassion for the woman, and punishment for the rapist. Usually the focus is all on the woman and that’s that. I think that’s another reason why I struggle so much with this-- why don’t we hear of what happens with the criminal? How will our justice system deal with a situation where a rapist attempts to use the pregnancy as a form of blackmail? What about rape victims who were assaulted by family members? Where do we go from there? And oftentimes, the child or woman who was raped by a family member is the one who is blamed for it, or is accused of making it up. There are so many stigmas to deal with. My husband is adamantly pro-life and when I try to ask him about these things, he usually dismisses my concerns about the rapist with a “oh, that would probably never happen,” and then goes on to how the woman should be less selfish. That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

 

[EmeraldWings]

the way i’ve always looked at it is, no matter how a life is conceived, it is still a living soul, one which God knew before it was “formed in the womb”,
and that life, because it has a soul, will live forever,
and so think about it, all these children being aborted for whatever reason, they are not baptized, they simply live and then die before being born…they will live for all eternity, but who knows where they are?
perhaps God has mercy on them somehow and lets them live for eternity in someplace like limbo, that would be nice, but nevertheless, we don’t know, and we should therefore do all we can to prevent it,

even in the case of a child conceived through rape, it is still a life, a living soul which will live for eternity,
i know it’s an incredibly hard thing to carry a child that way, but why isn’t it also such a hard thing to kill your own child? that should be harder…deciding the eternal fate of an individual, that to me is unthinkable…it’s scary really, it’s taking someone elses life into your own hands,
i feel so sad for all the aborted children, because they should be safe in their mothers womb, they should be loved, God loves them with an “everlasting love”, He loves even the ones who are conceived by rape,

i know it’s hard to talk to rape victims about these things, but you have to ask yourself, what kind of friend would you be if you didn’t? not just to the rape victim, but to the baby, and to God.
these are tough questions that you will have to ask yourself,
a true friend would never be ok with their friend risking condemning themselves to hell, the possibility of them not being held accountable for such a thing should not even make a difference, because even if that were so, there’s no way to really know, because you cannot see the state of their mind or soul, and so you must not take any chances,
of course the final decision is up to them and not you, but you never know until you try, and really, the destination of their immortal soul is much more important than your friendship with them,

everything happens for a reason, every life conceived has a purpose, but that purpose cannot be to be aborted,

you may not feel “good” or “right” telling a woman not to have an abortion, but it is because people let their feelings control them that we have so many abortions in the first place,
it’s not a matter of feeling right, the devil can make you feel certain things, so that is never the foundation of our decisions, it is by our reason that we should decide, not by our feelings, when we let our feelings control us, then we are their slave,
giving up your life for the love of another is hard to, much harder infact, but it’s been done,
and it is a heroic thing, it is a beautiful show of love, and a great proof of selflessness,
and yet on the other hand, those who sacrifice their child’s life for their own sake? for their own ease?
Jesus suffered and died for us, *before *we were born! …we cannot suffer for love of another before they are born? carrying your cross is never easy, but you don’t have to carry it alone, Jesus will always help you,
to suffer for the love of another is a sweet suffering…but convincing others of that is not easy…it’s something you have to experience for yourself,
you may suffer while trying to save your friends soul, but it will be worth it, love is the only thing worth suffering for,
and atleast in this life, if we are not suffering, chances are we are not loving either.
…Jesus suffered for love of us, and we must do the same.

it’s hard yes, but it doesn’t last, we have to die someday, and when we finally do, it will be the things we suffered through for the love of God and the love of our neighbor that get us to heaven, and not the love of ourselves for our own comfort and ease,
we just have to look at the big picture, we are here for a reason, and we have a goal, and everything we do either pushes us closer or further from that goal.

of course you can find more gentle and loving ways of approaching this, it doesn’t have to be so hard, just read up on how others handle it,
you can love both the mother and the child, it doesn’t have to be one or the other…

well…sorry i kinda dragged on a bit, hope you don’t mind,
but i hope this helps, take care.