Why am I struggling with this?

[BlueShadow123]

The ONLY reason there is a debate about abortion is because the fetus is in her body. It is attached to her body, using her bodies resources to stay alive, and is just a part of her body. Like an organ is part of your body, until it is born, it is part of her body. Due to the fact that its part of her body, the question is: do we let her do what she wants with her body (including what is INSIDE her body), or do we chose what she can do with her body?

If you were to see a circle of woman (some pregnant) and children lined up together, how would you count it? If somebody said, count how many people are here. You would count all the females and children. Would you count the fetus? Generally no, because its not considered there, which would essentially mean you are not considering it alive or a child.

Abortion will always stay legal even if people feel it is wrong. I can tell you right now, that if I ever got raped I would NOT have an abortion, but I WOULD give the child up for adoption. I would not want it in my family, I would not want to raise it, I would not want a family member to raise it, I would want nothing to do with it. Even though it is not the childs fault, the way it was ‘made’ was based on a disgusting and evil act, and I would want nothing to do with it.

There have been many woman who kept their babies who were made from the act of rape. Apparently every time they look at the child, they are reminded of the horrible situation and how that child was made.

I would never tell somebody to get an abortion, but due to the fact that abortion is legal, they are able to get it done. Now if you disagree with abortion and are so against it, voice your opinion, to the people who are the ones deciding wether it is legal or illegal. If you are against it, show your opinion!

Remember- killing a baby 3 seconds before it is labored isn’t considered illegal, but killing it 3 seconds after it is born, is considered illegal. Its a sad world we’re living in.

 

[Razor]

In the section on morality, the Catechism tells us that “One may not do evil so that good may result from it” (art 1756) and “The end does not justify the means” (art 1759). This teaching of the Church is simple enough to understand but acting on it can be very difficult. That brings me to my point . . .

Don’t forget the redemptive nature of the cross. Jesus begged His Father “let this cup pass from me” but God allowed His only son to die an extremely painful death. Obviously, there must be a very important reason why He allowed this. Part of the reason was to teach us what to do when we suffer. Jesus had the power to remove the suffering and crush His murderers. Instead, He chose to be obedient to His Father and forgive His murderers.

A pregnant rape victim has the power to remove the suffering by aborting her child (as others here have pointed out, this is actually more painful). However, in doing so, she would be throwing away a beautiful gift of the cross. Instead, using the sanctifying power of the pain to her spiritual benefit would be the wiser choice. “Please, Jesus, you know it is my human desire for You to take this pain from me but, if not, thank you for allowing me to share in the pain that You once felt on the cross”. Gut-wrenchingly difficult at times? Yes! Eternally beneficial? Absolutely!!!

Here is an interesting thought to ponder . . . What if the rapist were to be touched by the Holy Spirit and repent then offer to help raise the child? What if the raped woman forgave him, he eventually proposed, and the two were married? In the eyes of God, wouldn’t this be the best possible outcome? The child would be raised by both biological parents. The woman would receive blessing for her great forgiveness. The rapist would receive blessing through the reparation of his great sin. They both would receive grace by their great humility and, of course, by the sacrament of marriage (art 1661).

Am I a dreamer? I don’t think so. God IS real!

 

[spunjalebi]

Here is an interesting thought to ponder . . . What if the rapist were to be touched by the Holy Spirit and repent then offer to help raise the child? What if the raped woman forgave him, he eventually proposed, and the two were married?

That actually seems rather sick. It also reminds me of the OT in the Bible and also of cultures which make women marry their rapists because of a pregnancy. Even if the rapist were to repent it doesn’t mean that the woman should think she has to accept a proposal because she forgave him.

Just as many people would carry the pregnancy through term but not want anything to do with the child, there are many women who would not want anything to do with the rapist. The rapist FORCED the woman to have the child and in no way should she be forced to marry the rapist too. I have yet to meet a woman or hear of one who would actually marry her rapist, no matter how forgiving she is.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The ONLY reason there is a debate about abortion is because the fetus is in her body. **It is attached to her body, using her bodies resources to stay alive, and is just a part of her body. Like an organ is part of your body, until it is born, it is part of her body. **Due to the fact that its part of her body, the question is: do we let her do what she wants with her body (including what is INSIDE her body), or do we chose what she can do with her body?

If you were to see a circle of woman (some pregnant) and children lined up together, how would you count it? If somebody said, count how many people are here. You would count all the females and children. Would you count the fetus? Generally no, because its not considered there, which would essentially mean you are not considering it alive or a child.

Abortion will always stay legal even if people feel it is wrong. I can tell you right now, that if I ever got raped I would NOT have an abortion, but I WOULD give the child up for adoption. I would not want it in my family, I would not want to raise it, I would not want a family member to raise it, I would want nothing to do with it. Even though it is not the childs fault, the way it was ‘made’ was based on a disgusting and evil act, and I would want nothing to do with it.

There have been many woman who kept their babies who were made from the act of rape. Apparently every time they look at the child, they are reminded of the horrible situation and how that child was made.

I would never tell somebody to get an abortion, but due to the fact that abortion is legal, they are able to get it done. Now if you disagree with abortion and are so against it, voice your opinion, to the people who are the ones deciding wether it is legal or illegal. If you are against it, show your opinion!

Remember- killing a baby 3 seconds before it is labored isn’t considered illegal, but killing it 3 seconds after it is born, is considered illegal. Its a sad world we’re living in.

Very much wrong. The baby is a distinct individual with its own DNA from the moment it is conceived. Yes, the mother fosters the baby and feeds it from her own body, but an organ does not have its own separate DNA nor does it continue to grow and develop completely independently of its mother’s bodily processes. A baby is not an organ, and not a part of the mother’s body, not at any point in its development. Please be sure to remember this in your future posts. The pro-aborts always say that the baby is a part of the woman’s body so she has the right to dispose of it as she wishes. Some very misguided people even term a baby a “parasite.” Sad world indeed.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

it’s hard yes, but it doesn’t last, we have to die someday, and when we finally do, it will be the things we suffered through for the love of God and the love of our neighbor that get us to heaven, and not the love of ourselves for our own comfort and ease,
we just have to look at the big picture, we are here for a reason, and we have a goal, and everything we do either pushes us closer or further from that goal.

of course you can find more gentle and loving ways of approaching this, it doesn’t have to be so hard, just read up on how others handle it,
you can love both the mother and the child, it doesn’t have to be one or the other…

well…sorry i kinda dragged on a bit, hope you don’t mind,
but i hope this helps, take care.

What a beautiful post. I have always assumed that God does have mercy on His babies and brings them into Heaven, to meet us there someday, but you are right, we don’t know.

Of the women who have been raped and then had an abortion, almost all of them say that the abortion was worse than the rape. The rape cannot be undone by an abortion and now the woman has added her own crime, a worse crime, to the horror. Yes, it is hard to think about carrying a baby conceived by rape or incest. But is it ever the fault of the baby? Why should that innocent being die because it is conceived in the wrong way? I’m sure there have been many children throughout the centuries who have been born to women who were less than thrilled to be having intercourse at that moment - should all those children have also been aborted?

And women who have carried their babies conceived in violence to term, say that the rape was in a way, healed by the beautiful process of bringing life into this world. The baby makes up for the pain and heals a wounded place. Something good has happened to help compensate for the other pain.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

That is how I thought about it too…until someone I am extremely close to told me that she was raped and got pregnant. It was her first year in college and she was drugged at a party. She ended up getting an abortion and it is something I can’t fault her for.

She needed better support. Did she tell her parents? Did she seek counseling from pro-life organizations? Did she have a faith to sustain her? Women deserve better than abortion. There are other alternatives. I’m not saying it is easy because of course it is not. But women have done it, and are proud that they brought the baby through in spite of the pain.

The rape cannot be erased by the abortion. The rape’s pain is not healed by the abortion. The woman has 2 horrible traumatic events to deal with afterward. She may lie to herself and say “at least I didn’t have to carry the baby,” but it is a lie. She may have other symptoms and not know why. And she might have been injured by the abortion and be infertile. Wouldn’t that be a shame? It happens.

Edited to add that I truly believe GOD MAKES NO MISTAKES and if it is His will to bring a baby into being after a rape, then there is a purpose to that and that life is indeed, as sacred as any other life. If you believe that God has a purpose for creating life, then this is no different, and His will is that this child be born. Not just that this child MAY end up being a blessing to its mother or adoptive family, but that it ALREADY IS a blessing just because God created it.

 

[nilofc]

She needed better support. Did she tell her parents? Did she seek counseling from pro-life organizations? Did she have a faith to sustain her? Women deserve better than abortion. There are other alternatives. I’m not saying it is easy because of course it is not. But women have done it, and are proud that they brought the baby through in spite of the pain.

The rape cannot be erased by the abortion. The rape’s pain is not healed by the abortion. The woman has 2 horrible traumatic events to deal with afterward. She may lie to herself and say “at least I didn’t have to carry the baby,” but it is a lie. She may have other symptoms and not know why. And she might have been injured by the abortion and be infertile. Wouldn’t that be a shame? It happens.

Edited to add that I truly believe GOD MAKES NO MISTAKES and if it is His will to bring a baby into being after a rape, then there is a purpose to that and that life is indeed, as sacred as any other life. If you believe that God has a purpose for creating life, then this is no different, and His will is that this child be born. Not just that this child MAY end up being a blessing to its mother or adoptive family, but that it ALREADY IS a blessing just because God created it.

Thanks Juliane…

Abortion can never be justified.

If the mother who with full consent willingly aborted the child, then she murdered her baby.

I know we must have compassion…but let’s be truthful. Abortion is murder.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks Juliane…

Abortion can never be justified.

If the mother who with full consent willingly aborted the child, then she murdered her baby.

I know we must have compassion…but let’s be truthful. Abortion is murder.

But what is “with full consent?” Most of the women who abort have been lied to by the abortion clinic, most especially Planned Parenthood who will tell women that their 10 week old baby is a “blob of tissue,” like snot in a Kleenex, I suppose. Most of the women who abort have been pressured to do so by at least one important person in their lives, like the father of the child, a sibling, a mother, a grandmother. Most of the women have not been told the truth about abortion their entire lives, being told that it will solve the “problem” and allow them to go about their lives as though the pregnancy had never happened. They want to believe that is true. And of course, they have been told repeatedly that abortion is between a woman and her doctor, no one else, and that it is “her body, her choice,” as well as that abortion is legal. Planned Parenthood even goes as far as telling women that abortion is safer than childbirth!!! How would a very young woman know any better, after all, these are medical authorities.

From my own experience, I do not believe that ANY of the women going into abortion clinics are going there to knowingly abort that baby. Either they don’t really know it’s already a baby, or they are being pressured to abort, usually both. By the time they find out that what they have been told are lies, of course it is too late for the baby, but God’s mercy is wide and deep and there is more of it than we his children can imagine. Please don’t make it sound as if these women are beyond forgiveness. They are not.

 

[spunjalebi]

I have to disagree that most people who get abortions don’t know what they are doing. True they are not beyond forgiveness but if anyone’s talked to women around my age, they for SURE know what they are doing. I can remember being part of a facebook group about abortion a while back when I used fb more and there were women who talked about how they “knew what they would do” if they ever got pregnant. A few of these young women were unashamed in the way they talked about getting abortions without even telling their boyfriends, or about how they didn’t want to bother with adoption. I hate to say it, but many young women obtaining abortions aren’t always scared, confused, pressured, or the like; they often know exactly what they are doing and are intent on getting an abortion.

I would honestly have more compassion for a woman who aborted due to rape than a woman who aborted because she “felt like it.” Yeah I know abortion is murder but I have a hard time granting immediate forgiveness to someone who always knew what they would do.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have to disagree that most people who get abortions don’t know what they are doing. True they are not beyond forgiveness but if anyone’s talked to women around my age, they for SURE know what they are doing. I can remember being part of a facebook group about abortion a while back when I used fb more and there were women who talked about how they “knew what they would do” if they ever got pregnant. A few of these young women were unashamed in the way they talked about getting abortions without even telling their boyfriends, or about how they didn’t want to bother with adoption. I hate to say it, but many young women obtaining abortions aren’t always scared, confused, pressured, or the like; they often know exactly what they are doing and are intent on getting an abortion.

I would honestly have more compassion for a woman who aborted due to rape than a woman who aborted because she “felt like it.” Yeah I know abortion is murder but I have a hard time granting immediate forgiveness to someone who always knew what they would do.

It’s one thing to talk about something before it happens. It is quite another to actually be in the position and go through with what you’d previously decided upon, when it wasn’t real. And if they had already had an abortion, you don’t know what their true hears are, or will become. Many, many young women go through years of pain, suffering, nightmares, substance abuse, bad relationships, etc. and since they are told that abortion solves problems, it can’t possibly be the abortion that is causing them the pain, now can it??

Go to silentnomoreawareness.org/
and listen to some of the stories. You will see that it can take years before a woman is ready to admit what she has gone through. Trust me, those young women know what they have gone through, and it’s not something to just toss off casually. They are trying to make themselves feel better, but they need support.

 

[St_Francis]

I never thought of it this way, but I think you may have a point there. Oftentimes when there are conservative politicians who are against elective abortions, they add a disclaimer stating that they are okay with abortions for “rape, incest, and threat to mother’s life.” I have yet to hear of a politician who will look at these kinds of circumstances in a way that exudes compassion for the woman, and punishment for the rapist. Usually the focus is all on the woman and that’s that. I think that’s another reason why I struggle so much with this-- why don’t we hear of what happens with the criminal? How will our justice system deal with a situation where a rapist attempts to use the pregnancy as a form of blackmail? What about rape victims who were assaulted by family members? Where do we go from there? And oftentimes, the child or woman who was raped by a family member is the one who is blamed for it, or is accused of making it up. There are so many stigmas to deal with. My husband is adamantly pro-life and when I try to ask him about these things, he usually dismisses my concerns about the rapist with a “oh, that would probably never happen,” and then goes on to how the woman should be less selfish. That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

I think that it is probably difficult to deal with the issue of the rapist because he is considered to be a common criminal (we don’t usually think of the rapists as relatives, for example), and it is assumed that everyone knows that the police will go after them and if possible put them in jail. There are so many different outcomes to the rapist part that people cannot make definitive statements except that they will prosecute rapists whenever they catch them. You have an entire spectrum from women who were so ashamed of the rape that they didn’t report it at the time to women who have lied and claimed they have been raped when they weren’t. It is at once the more underreported and overreported crime.

It seems that over the past 30 years the issue of sexual abuse of children has improved, in that children are more likely to be believed, that the signs are out there and people like nurses and teachers are more aware of the possiblity and what to do about it, etc.

As to all the rest… we live in a degraded and morally bankrupt culture. About all we can do is to help those nearest to us, stand up for what is right, and pray, pray, prayfor conversions.

 

[spunjalebi]

Your comment about rapists sometimes being relatives makes me remember another reason why people believe that abortion in the case of rape and incest is the preferable choice. I’ve heard people cite that the baby will not have a “good” identity because what if the baby was conceived because a dad raped a daughter, or an uncle raped a niece?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Your comment about rapists sometimes being relatives makes me remember another reason why people believe that abortion in the case of rape and incest is the preferable choice. I’ve heard people cite that the baby will not have a “good” identity because what if the baby was conceived because a dad raped a daughter, or an uncle raped a niece?

that is what adoption is for. That is what closed adoption is for. A child should never know that he or she was conceived in rape. That child should have every opportunity to be loved and raised within a stable, loving home no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT!

 

[spunjalebi]

What happens when the child wants to know where he or she came from? I read about how a man inquired about his biological father with this birth mother who placed him in adoption. Turns out his dad was Charles Manson, and had raped his mother…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

What happens when the child wants to know where he or she came from? I read about how a man inquired about his biological father with this birth mother who placed him in adoption. Turns out his dad was Charles Manson, and had raped his mother…

The parents should go to their graves with that information and the records should be sealed. Not so long ago, it was nearly impossible to find one’s bio-mom or dad, and IMO it should be still. Too much heartache can be caused in just these sorts of situations. What good did it do that man to find out such a horrible thing? The selfishness of people says “I want to meet my son or daughter,” instead of imagining what sorts of questions that will open up…

We speak all sorts of stuff that shouldn’t be revealed. We are much too open about things that should be between us and God…I know, here I am on a forum on the internet saying that but…still.

 

[spunjalebi]

Well, a lot of these situations can involve the children seeking their birth parents as well. I don’t think it’s necessarily right to deny someone the ability to seek the knowledge of who their birth mother or birth father was…the U.S. government did enough abuses with that and adoption of Native American children. But I digress-- we can’t help what happens when someone is conceived out of rape, so I guess the problem is how can we teach others that the situation of conception does not determine one’s value or worth? Wouldn’t that be the real concern? After all, when many people argue for getting abortion, they usually use the “a child who finds out they were conceived of rape will feel less than…”?