Why and how is homosexuality is considered a sin?

[epan]

Will the Church disengage from “the people”?

If you mean will the Church conduct a scientific popularity poll to determine its new doctrines based on what Hollywood, the news media, and academics have dictated are to be the new social mores, then no, probably not. Thank God.

Christianity is not based on demographics, it’s based on divine revelation as collected in the Bible and the Deposit of Faith.

If the vast majority of bloggers, twitterers, Cher, prime-time comedy stars, Democrat congressmen, Lady Gaga, reality show celebrities, your Aunt Ida, and all the people who go to the “inclusive and diverse” mega-church down the street insist the Church is wrong, it still ain’t.

If 99.99999999999999999999999999% of Catholics feel the Church is wrong and should change its doctrine, guess what? It still ain’t wrong.

Put all the chattering classes on earth on one side and Benedict 16 on the other, and guess who will be right?

The Church has been right for 2 millennia. If we started out small and end small, maybe that’s for the best.

Such an pollyannaish appraisal does not lend much confidence.

 

[GRATEFULONEjim]

Such an pollyannaish appraisal does not lend much confidence.

Sorry you feel that way, but that is exactly why you belong to your church. The Catholic Church teaches what is necessary to get peoples souls to heaven. I’ll stick with that. Thank you for your concern though.

 

[Crescentinus]

I s Gato an acronym (girl against tradition’s oppression) or are you simply fond of cats? Do you think the Catholic Church is so powerful that it calling homosexuality disordered and gay sex sinful can account for all the suicides among gay people? I know I like a choir to sing in tune, it bothers me to hear a dissenting voice, I’m speaking metaphorically here. In our society, there are many voices that say homosexuality is all fine, you were born this way, it’s totally natural etc., why do you zero in on one voice among a myriad of other gay-friendly voices? The mission of the Church is to be God’s spokesperson on Earth. Let’s say for argument’s sake that the Catholic Church’s message on homosexuality does come straight from God Almighty, what do you say then? If we’re to believe the Bible is God-inspired writ, homosexual sex is an abomination to God, in other words that’s gravely opposed to God’s will, don’t you think that the Catholic Church, **out of love **and concern for the homosexual people’s souls, has a duty to let them know their lifestyle may jeopardize their souls? I’ve said that ad nauseam, but as someone who was given a tough hand in life, I’m no stranger to sorrow, rejection, feeling of inadequacy and the aftermath of these, loneliness and despair, I know how some of the homosexual people feel, and I sympathize with them. Read any Church document, and try to find hatred, contempt, scorn, it can’t be done because all you’ll find is love and genuine concern.

You had just demolished LaGatoTobey’s argument like a boss. I salute you!

 

[Robertanthony]

You had just demolished LaGatoTobey’s argument like a boss. I salute you!

Thank you. Hopefully she came her sincerely looking for an answer to her question, and if such is the case, she understood the many points that were raised in this thread. Hopefully (again) she’ll spread the info around.

 

[LaGatoTobey]

I s Gato an acronym (girl against tradition’s oppression) or are you simply fond of cats? Do you think the Catholic Church is so powerful that it calling homosexuality disordered and gay sex sinful can account for all the suicides among gay people? I know I like a choir to sing in tune, it bothers me to hear a dissenting voice, I’m speaking metaphorically here. In our society, there are many voices that say homosexuality is all fine, you were born this way, it’s totally natural etc., why do you zero in on one voice among a myriad of other gay-friendly voices? The mission of the Church is to be God’s spokesperson on Earth. Let’s say for argument’s sake that the Catholic Church’s message on homosexuality does come straight from God Almighty, what do you say then? If we’re to believe the Bible is God-inspired writ, homosexual sex is an abomination to God, in other words that’s gravely opposed to God’s will, don’t you think that the Catholic Church, **out of love **and concern for the homosexual people’s souls, has a duty to let them know their lifestyle may jeopardize their souls? I’ve said that ad nauseam, but as someone who was given a tough hand in life, I’m no stranger to sorrow, rejection, feeling of inadequacy and the aftermath of these, loneliness and despair, I know how some of the homosexual people feel, and I sympathize with them. Read any Church document, and try to find hatred, contempt, scorn, it can’t be done because all you’ll find is love and genuine concern.

G.A.T.O stands for Gay Adolesent Thrashing Ovaries. I only liked that for one reason only. Because I love metal. But never mind that. I actually know what’s the normal Catholics goal when it comes to church (I was born and raised in a Mexican catholic family) I’m just saying I have met and witnessed many people, mainly Catholics, in my life that have looked me in the eye and said that my friends sexuality is wrong or I’m going to hell if I keep hanging out with them and so forth. It’s actually great to see real Catholics here. I love you all

 

[LittleFlower378]

Read some of the Church documents on this - The Church, documents and Bishops do not rudely discriminate against homosexuals but teach the truth in love.

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS
TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION
TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

 

[edwest2]

Your observation is correct. There is a disconnect between the Catholic Church and society. That is obvious. Perhaps some Catholics would like to comment as to how they see the future of the Catholic Church. Will it engage, or will it continue to disengage from the people?

Your statement is very broad and provides no other examples of what you mean by “disengage.”

The facts are this. Prior to gay marriage being promoted everywhere, homosexuals were doing whatever they wanted, around the world. Sex was a completely private matter, gay or straight. Then things changed and the change was caused by some homosexuals.

You mention the people. When same-sex marriage appeared on the ballot, it was voted down in every state. How did the Catholic Church disengage from the people? The people spoke, but they were ignored. Then gay marriage advocates convinced a tiny handful of people, namely judges and politicians, that it was OK. The millions of voters saying it was not were ignored. Then the same gay lobbyists went to the heads of well-known companies - another tiny handful of people - and convinced some of them to say it - gay marriage - is OK.

To answer the OP.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

By the way, I had no problems working with gay, lesbian and bisexual people. They never confronted me and made demands to me about how I should view their sexual practices. We got along.

Peace,
Ed

 

[GWright]

Over the past couple of years of my life here in my small town, I have yet to find that many people consider homosexuality a sin. Mainly I see this type of hate coming from people of ‘God’. It’s irritating to see this.

Hi there

I would strongly condemn any genuine hatred toward homosexual persons, but I think its very unfair of you to say that even just considering homosexuality sinful is “hate”. I disagree.

Yes, homosexuality is condemned in scripture, but for Catholics, we understand it more using concepts of natural law. That is, the physical form and features of an object demonstrate its purpose. These objects can be part of the human body - for example, the eye or the hand and, yes, a persons genitals.

Ultimately, even a basic understanding of human biology clearly demonstrates that homosexuality is a disordered sexuality. It does not use the human body in a way it is meant to be used. It does not respect the human body.

No-one is supposed to be gay - the physical body of every last person on earth, including those of gay people, clearly proclaim a heterosexual orientation.

But of course, none of this means gay individuals are 2nd class citizens, or worth less than any other person. And it certainly doesn’t justify any mistreated or harm of gay people.

We need to love another and not let our beliefs get to our queer people.

But it is undeniable, hard FACT that homosexuality is disordered, not a belief (back to biology).

The suicide rate for gay youth is so high.

Yes and that is a tragedy.

I don’t think it is anything to do with people saying homosexuality is disordered though - homosexual people know that themselves, even if they don’t admit it.

Homosexuality has a long history of being associated with poor health and mental illness.

Think about it - if the sexual attractions which a person experiences are at total loggerheads with the sexuality proclaimed by their body, that’s got to be a bit troubling, at least for some people, no?

I think some gay people today like to project the source of this troubled feeling - which is internal - onto external sources. I think some gay people today comfort themselves by pretending that the source of their ills is other peoples religious belief, as opposed to their own inner conflict.

We cannot pretend that homosexual orientation is equally as valid as heterosexuality - it is simply not true. To claim that is to repudiate biological science. To claim that denigrates the miracle of procreation as a mere side effect.

It is similar to saying that, rather than filling your car’s petrol tank with petrol, it is equally valid to fill it with Budweiser. Its just not true.

While ALL individuals are of the same worth and dignity, homosexual relationship are not genuinely comparable to heterosexual ones. Only on the most vague, reductive level could you make that argument - the same vague level which would also include a man and his pet dog. (“2 beings who love one another”).

Consider the main features of heterosexual relationships:

• they are characterised by the attraction of opposites
• they are characterised by the complimentary nature of opposites
• they are characterised by being open to the possibility of creating new life
• they have a natural and important social role
• they are the fundamental building block of all human society

A gay relationship is none of these things - indeed, a gay relationship is often the complete antithesis of these things.

So we can see that homosexual relationships and heterosexual relationships are fundamentally very different. Its just not credible to pretend they are the same.

Currently, the latest gripe of many gay people against society, is that they cannot get married. But marriage is a bond between a man and a woman. To open marriage to gay couples, directly equating them with heterosexual couples, is akin to a society pretending that a dog is a horse.

The truth is not always an easy pill to swallow. Sometimes the truth can be sad, challenging or difficult.

Take it easy

 

[GWright]

There is a disconnect between the Catholic Church and society. That is obvious. Perhaps some Catholics would like to comment as to how they see the future of the Catholic Church. Will it engage, or will it continue to disengage from the people?

Hi epan,

It is not the Catholic Church which is disengaging. It is not the Catholic Church which has abandoned the truth, regarding (to give some quick contemporary examples):

• The sanctity of human life. It is not Catholics who pretend that abortion - destroying a defenceless life - is OK, purely because a woman does not want to take responsibility for the natural consequences of her own choice to have sex. (as per the greater vast majority of abortions). Here Catholics stick with the truth and others disengage, because the truth doesn’t suit them. Lies are easier, because they make accommodations with the world.
• Human sexuality. It is not Catholics who pretend that there is nothing amiss about homosexuality, or that our physical bodies tell us nothing about ourselves and our sexuality. Here Catholics stick with the truth and others disengage, because the truth doesn’t suit them. Lies are easier, because they make accommodations with the world.
• The Church. It is it not Catholics who pretend that Jesus Christ got it all wrong with his model of Christian ministry (which has been remarkably effective, incidentally). It is not Catholics who think they know better than Jesus Christ, and so can have married clergy, female clergy, giraffe clergy etc etc. Here Catholics stick with the truth and others disengage, because the truth doesn’t suit them. Lies are easier, because they make accommodations with the world.

You are dead right that there is a gap between the Catholic Church and many people. But its not because the Catholic Church has disengaged: it is because the Catholic Church proclaims the truth, while others prefer to live in a suit-yourself, looking-glass world of pretence.

Personally, I think that when:

• western social identities and cohesion crumble and become balkanised, due to the indigenous population not having a large enough birth rate (in large part due to abortion - in the UK, 200,000 abortions p.a right now - increasingly, the Government is struggling to juggle the many needs of an ageing population with the reduced tax intake this situation causes. The generation gap is being made up via large scale immigration, which - if mismanaged - can cause social problems. The UK has so far seen race riots - over decades - and internal terrorist attacks, thanks to mismanaged immigration),

and

• future generations underachieve and are troubled, thanks to a broken or confused upbringing family model, (probably by now as many UK marriages fail as are successful. We have reached the stage where a single parent is “part of the furniture”. Additionally the advent of “gay families” will undoubtedly present various issues as regards personal development of children, notably with regard to how they as adults relate to both men and women).

and

• society is struggling under the weight of sexually transmitted disease, thanks to permissiveness regarding disordered sexualities (1 in 5 gay men in the USA has HIV, but only 50% are estimated to be aware of the fact. In the UK it costs £20,000 - about $30,000 - to treat one HIV patient per year, and they need treatment until their natural death. In western cities with large gay populations - sydney, san fransisco, london etc - gay male populations have HIV rates similar to the worst hit african nations. Its never in the press. And it will only get worse. I think HIV will grow so large - certainly among gay men anyway - as to become seen as akin to having diabetes or something. Ultimately, you cannot normalise homosexuality, without normalising HIV. And its going to cost us all a fortune and pressure our health services.)

and

• Christianity is all but destroyed in parts of the west (as western ex-protestant nations fall into atheist states, thanks to the inherently divided, fractious and schismatic nature of protestantism, where everyone is their own pope. What is it now? 50,00 different denominations? More even? Naturally this has the effect of pushing people away, given Christianity comes to be seen as a “form your own club and just do what suits you” affair, which severely undermines its credibility).

etc etc etc, then the Catholic Church in the west will undergo a significant up turn in its fortunes. Ie once people realise that it has been right all along.

I think this is afoot, albeit slightly already. eg Humane Vitae - mocked at the time - is growing ever more respectable, given every one of the negative consequences (wrt contraception as the norm) Pope Paul VI predicted in that document have been realised, and then some.

I am not suggesting that Popes have some mystical power to see the future, I am stating that Humane Vitaes arguments were (are) bullet and bomb proof, because the Catholic Church proclaims the truth - but others disengage.

Take it easy!

 

[edwest2]

Hi epan,

It is not the Catholic Church which is disengaging. It is not the Catholic Church which has abandoned the truth, regarding (to give some quick contemporary examples):

• The sanctity of human life. It is not Catholics who pretend that abortion - destroying a defenceless life - is OK, purely because a woman does not want to take responsibility for the natural consequences of her own choice to have sex. (as per the greater vast majority of abortions). Here Catholics stick with the truth and others disengage, because the truth doesn’t suit them. Lies are easier, because they make accommodations with the world.
• Human sexuality. It is not Catholics who pretend that there is nothing amiss about homosexuality, or that our physical bodies tell us nothing about ourselves and our sexuality. Here Catholics stick with the truth and others disengage, because the truth doesn’t suit them. Lies are easier, because they make accommodations with the world.
• The Church. It is it not Catholics who pretend that Jesus Christ got it all wrong with his model of Christian ministry (which has been remarkably effective, incidentally). It is not Catholics who think they know better than Jesus Christ, and so can have married clergy, female clergy, giraffe clergy etc etc. Here Catholics stick with the truth and others disengage, because the truth doesn’t suit them. Lies are easier, because they make accommodations with the world.

You are dead right that there is a gap between the Catholic Church and many people. But its not because the Catholic Church has disengaged: it is because the Catholic Church proclaims the truth, while others prefer to live in a suit-yourself, looking-glass world of pretence.

Personally, I think that when:

• western social identities and cohesion crumble and become balkanised, due to the indigenous population not having a large enough birth rate (in large part due to abortion - in the UK, 200,000 abortions p.a right now - increasingly, the Government is struggling to juggle the many needs of an ageing population with the reduced tax intake this situation causes. The generation gap is being made up via large scale immigration, which - if mismanaged - can cause social problems. The UK has so far seen race riots - over decades - and internal terrorist attacks, thanks to mismanaged immigration),

and

• future generations underachieve and are troubled, thanks to a broken or confused upbringing family model, (probably by now as many UK marriages fail as are successful. We have reached the stage where a single parent is “part of the furniture”. Additionally the advent of “gay families” will undoubtedly present various issues as regards personal development of children, notably with regard to how they as adults relate to both men and women).

and

• society is struggling under the weight of sexually transmitted disease, thanks to permissiveness regarding disordered sexualities (1 in 5 gay men in the USA has HIV, but only 50% are estimated to be aware of the fact. In the UK it costs £20,000 - about $30,000 - to treat one HIV patient per year, and they need treatment until their natural death. In western cities with large gay populations - sydney, san fransisco, london etc - gay male populations have HIV rates similar to the worst hit african nations. Its never in the press. And it will only get worse. I think HIV will grow so large - certainly among gay men anyway - as to become seen as akin to having diabetes or something. Ultimately, you cannot normalise homosexuality, without normalising HIV. And its going to cost us all a fortune and pressure our health services.)

and

• Christianity is all but destroyed in parts of the west (as western ex-protestant nations fall into atheist states, thanks to the inherently divided, fractious and schismatic nature of protestantism, where everyone is their own pope. What is it now? 50,00 different denominations? More even? Naturally this has the effect of pushing people away, given Christianity comes to be seen as a “form your own club and just do what suits you” affair, which severely undermines its credibility).

etc etc etc, then the Catholic Church in the west will undergo a significant up turn in its fortunes. Ie once people realise that it has been right all along.

I think this is afoot, albeit slightly already. eg Humane Vitae - mocked at the time - is growing ever more respectable, given every one of the negative consequences (wrt contraception as the norm) Pope Paul VI predicted in that document have been realised, and then some.

I am not suggesting that Popes have some mystical power to see the future, I am stating that Humane Vitaes arguments were (are) bullet and bomb proof, because the Catholic Church proclaims the truth - but others disengage.

Take it easy!

Thank you for that. Humanae Vitae was the bomb dropped on the Sexual Revolution and the counterattack was swift. I watched as the media, slowly, gently, at first, led us by the hand and eventually encouraged the very things Pope Paul VI warned would happen.

In the past, private sexual activity was private, gay or straight. That was appropriate and normal. In the 1970s and 1980s, the gay, lesbian and bisexual people I worked with encountered no friction from me or others in my work environment. We got along.

Today, advocates for gay marriage are confrontational and trying to force others to agree that their private sexual practices are good, OK and acceptable. Who’s stopping them from living how they want? Why do they need my approval? That was never the case before.

Peace,
Ed

 

[lerapt78]

I think some gay people today like to project the source of this troubled feeling - which is internal - onto external sources. I think some gay people today comfort themselves by pretending that the source of their ills is other peoples religious belief, as opposed to their own inner conflict.

Very astute observation, GWright.

OP, no one here is happy about the suicide rate of homosexuals (in fact, no one here is happy about *any *individual who is in such despair that he would take his own life). But to shift the focus from one’s inner turmoil onto the observations/opinions of others is not only unfair, but it is also damaging because it may prevent one from seeking the inner courage necessary to control one’s thought process. There seems to be a conception of “if only I could force everyone else to view my sexuality in a positive light, I’ll be happy.” Sadly, this is not always the case.

 

[Polycarp1]

Over the past couple of years of my life here in my small town, I have yet to find that many people consider homosexuality a sin. Mainly I see this type of hate coming from people of ‘God’. It’s irritating to see this. As a young woman, I truly hate this! We need to love another and not let our beliefs get to our queer people. Not only adults but for the youth too. The suicide rate for gay youth is so high. We can change that if we stop spreading the hate by using your God’s name in vain.
Hugs over punches.
Kisses over abuse.
Love over hate.
-G.A.T.O <3

I guess if you hate sinful acts that must mean that you hate sinners! Actually the opposite is true. If I watch and encourage some one to sin knowing that doing so will lead them to spiritual death that is not loving them that’s not caring about them at all. It is those who support the sinful behavior who are the real haters as they think that others sinful behavior will somehow make theirs allright.

 

[Gods_Peace]

Your observation is correct. There is a disconnect between the Catholic Church and society. That is obvious. Perhaps some Catholics would like to comment as to how they see the future of the Catholic Church. Will it engage, or will it continue to disengage from the people?

Society is moreso not connecting to morality, and the holy spirits teachings. Would you like to make up excuses on judgement day sir? Or are you going to keep the nasty remarks against Christs bride to yourself?

 

[Gods_Peace]

Gay Adolesent Thrashing Ovaries???

… Your treading on thin ice boy …

 

[Polycarp1]

Society is moreso not connecting to morality, and the holy spirits teachings. Would you like to make up excuses on judgement day sir? Or are you going to keep the nasty remarks against Christs bride to yourself?

There’s a disconnect between the Catholic Church and sin!

 

[LaGatoTobey]

Gay Adolesent Thrashing Ovaries???

… Your treading on thin ice boy …

I’m a girl -.-

 

[MacBP]

Over the past couple of years of my life here in my small town, I have yet to find that many people consider homosexuality a sin. Mainly I see this type of hate coming from people of ‘God’. It’s irritating to see this. As a young woman, I truly hate this! We need to love another and not let our beliefs get to our queer people. Not only adults but for the youth too. The suicide rate for gay youth is so high. We can change that if we stop spreading the hate by using your God’s name in vain.
Hugs over punches.
Kisses over abuse.
Love over hate.
-G.A.T.O <3

Hello and welcome to CAF! I think that other posters have covered why the churches as it does on this topic… and covered it some more… and still more after that. I won’t add to that. I will, however, say why I think that identifying homosexual actions as a sin can ultimately be an act of love and charity.

Today’s society seems to have an idea which holds that love is nothing more than niceness. It is not nice to say that somebody is committing a sin, Christians says that practicing homosexuality is a sin, and therefor Christians are not being very nice towards homosexuals. If niceness is love than Christians aren’t being loving towards homosexuals when they condemn homosexual actions (not the perfect syllogism, but I hope that you could follow it).

Christian love extends beyond mere niceness as does all true love. A parent may punish his/her children, he/she may prevent them from doing things they enjoy, and he/she may make their child’s life more difficult. Does this mean the parent does not love him? No! In fact the parents act like this precisely because they love their children. They realize they although the child may not enjoy the parent’s aactions now their child will ultimately be better off for it.

So how does this apply in our case? Well, Catholics and other people of God believe that our happiness ultimately lies with God. Everything else is a pale and vastly inferior reflection.Therefore, the greatest good a Christian can do for another human being is to unite that person with God. We accomplish this by encouraging virtue (such as faith, hope and charity) and by discouraging sin (in this case homosexual actions). A Christian could support homosexual actions and I suppose he/she would be nice for the effort, but if that Christian truly believes that homosexuality is contrary to the will of God (and the Bible, Sacred Tradition, and natural law make it clear that it is) than the Christian is only loving in condemning homosexual actions so that they may lead a person to God and consequently their greatest happiness.

This does not excuse the way some Christians have treated homosexuals. Homosexuals have been mistreated, derided, and genuinely hurt by Christians. Some have had the best intentions, some have not. But if a Christian is charitably calling you to repent and pointing out some area of your life where you are sinning it is not because he/she hates you. To the contrary, it’s because he/she love you.

 

[CopticChristian]

Over the past couple of years of my life here in my small town, I have yet to find that many people consider homosexuality a sin. Mainly I see this type of hate coming from people of ‘God’. It’s irritating to see this. As a young woman,** I truly hate this! **We need to love another and not let our beliefs get to our queer people. Not only adults but for the youth too. The suicide rate for gay youth is so high. We can change that if we **stop spreading the hate **by using your God’s name in vain.
Hugs over punches.
Kisses over abuse.
Love over hate.
-G.A.T.O <3

Cat,

You have yet to find many that many people consider homosexuality a sin.

Mainly I see this type of hate coming from people of “God”.

What is your understanding of Sin?

How is it you have inferred that the people of God hate?

You then state you hate this. You have hate. How is it you believe you have the ability to hate and others do not if in fact hate is what it is you are calling sin?

You want to stop spreading hate…I suggest you start with what Michael Jackson says…“I’m starting with the man in the mirror…I’m hopin…”

I suggest you first define your terms and understanding and stop saying you hate…to do this would be the first order of business.

 

[Youshaa]

Homosexuality is considered a sin because most of the people being a homosexual gets into very disgusting sexual relationship(Gay Sex).This is against the creation of God.For sexual relationship God has given us the a wonderful creation.So the people commonly has the fair of the above disgusting activity.But I am telling you that being a homosexual is the bond of evil,you may kiss your same sex but kiss with brotherly love if you are a boy and sisterly love among girls.If god wanted a homosexual person,then he would have created not Eve but some one who was of same sex of Adam. Homosexuality drives a person away from the creation of God.So if someone is homosexual pray for them and you will be rewarded.

If you have any question sent me an e-mail at following address,
At Yahoo: subbayoushaaveetadid@yahoo.co.uk

 

[Crescentinus]

Over the past couple of years of my life here in my small town, I have yet to find that many people consider homosexuality a sin. Mainly I see this type of hate coming from people of ‘God’. It’s irritating to see this. As a young woman, I truly hate this! We need to love another and not let our beliefs get to our queer people. Not only adults but for the youth too. The suicide rate for gay youth is so high. We can change that if we stop spreading the hate by using your God’s name in vain.
Hugs over punches.
Kisses over abuse.
Love over hate.
-G.A.T.O <3

Here’s a question. Have you read what the Catholic Church teaches on this matter?

On a side note, let me go after your argument. You claim that you hate the fact that people are committing hatred against the GLBT community. Here’s another question. Where is the proof of this?