Why and How?

[PJM]

=Sufjon;7237626]Dear Friend Pat: Thank you for your patience. Yes, 2 + 2 is 4 as you said. It is also math. It is also half of eight. It is also an even number. It is also a sum. It is also a result. It is also addition. All are true. Which is the singular truth? Truths are machinations of the mind and the mind is the problem. It grasps for certainties. It aims to survive, and looks for truths that help it to believe that it’s possible for it to survive in some long-term way.You are infinitely more than that instrument of thought that seeks reassurance of it’s own eternal survival. If we get beyond the mind we will know some truth. That is why God said to “be still and know that I am.” Still the mind and know 'I am" directly. That is how He is known. The mind is taking us this place and that, when what we need to know is nearer than the breath and cannot be known by the mind. Truths are matters of the mind. Again, the mind is the problem. Silence the mind and find Him in the space between the thoughts. Having this, what need is there for this truth or that?

Your friend
Sufjon

Each is it’s own singular truth the the question asked.

What is 2+2

What is half of eight ect.

Seperate questions lead to seperate singular truth, right?

And what about quantifying your “freewill?”

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Sufjon]

Each is it’s own singular truth the the question asked.

What is 2+2

What is half of eight ect.

Seperate questions lead to seperate singular truth, right?

And what about quantifying your “freewill?”

God Bless,
Pat

Hi Pat: You nailed it - that is in fact what I meant. I am of the belief that the same truth can manifest in a number of ways. All of the ones in the example above are abstracts. They usually depend on your vantage point and what you’re looking for. Other examples are how I can agree completely with doctrines of Christianity, but it ends up usually being in a different way than would be expected by the average Christian.

Anyway, can you clarify the question on free will? I’m not sure what you’re asking. I am thinking that you’re asking how free will factors in, but I’m not sure if that’s what you’re asking or how in connects. I must have my slow hat on tonight

I do believe in free will, but I believe it is much more limited than most people take it to be.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PJM]

=Sufjon;7240207]Hi Pat: You nailed it - that is in fact what I meant. I am of the belief that the same truth can manifest in a number of ways. All of the ones in the example above are abstracts. They usually depend on your vantage point and what you’re looking for. Other examples are how I can agree completely with doctrines of Christianity, but it ends up usually being in a different way than would be expected by the average Christian.

Anyway, can you clarify the question on free will? I’m not sure what you’re asking. I am thinking that you’re asking how free will factors in, but I’m not sure if that’s what you’re asking or how in connects. I must have my slow hat on tonight

I do believe in free will, but I believe it is much more limited than most people take it to be.

Your friend
Sufjon

First a comment: What is abstract about singular thruths? I’m missing something here:shrug:

Now to “freewill.”

We inherit our physical trats from our birth parents. But all of humanity posses four SPIRITUAL gifts, that canot be inherited from our birth parents.

Someting can only share what that something has…correct?

So Spiritual gitfs must originate from a Spiritual Source. We hold that these Apiritual gifts are how we are Created in the image an likeness of God. [Gen. 1:26-27].

God is SPIRIT [Yes Jesus has two complete natures; human and Divine].[John 4:23-24].

These four Spiritual gifts are 1. our souls 2. our minds [not speaking here of brain] 3. our Intellect and 4. our freewill.

Each of these is self evident in the dialog we are engaged in. So my question [in an effort to prove there Spiritual nature] is to ask you to quantify for me any one of them. Size, color, shape, weight, form.

This cannot be done as they exist in the Spiritual realm only.

Sprit must originate from Spirit. That Spirit is who we call our God.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Sufjon]

First a comment: What is abstract about singular thruths? I’m missing something here:shrug:

Hi Pat: Two plus two equals four is an abstract. It only exists as signals between neurons in the mind. There is no two plus two. It is a calculation and a measurement used by the mind to make an appraisal of things. Very useful, but it exists only in the mind. You can count, add, multiply and divide apples in your mind, but in fact there are only apples.

Now to “freewill.”

We inherit our physical trats from our birth parents. But all of humanity posses four SPIRITUAL gifts, that canot be inherited from our birth parents.

Someting can only share what that something has…correct?

So Spiritual gitfs must originate from a Spiritual Source. We hold that these Apiritual gifts are how we are Created in the image an likeness of God. [Gen. 1:26-27].

God is SPIRIT [Yes Jesus has two complete natures; human and Divine].[John 4:23-24].

These four Spiritual gifts are 1. our souls 2. our minds [not speaking here of brain] 3. our Intellect and 4. our freewill.

Each of these is self evident in the dialog we are engaged in. So my question [in an effort to prove there Spiritual nature] is to ask you to quantify for me any one of them. Size, color, shape, weight, form.

This cannot be done as they exist in the Spiritual realm only.

Sprit must originate from Spirit. That Spirit is who we call our God.

Love and prayers,
Pat

I have to agree that the true self exists outside of the causal world. I believe that the physical world is created by consciousness, of which there is only One. In my faith, that one consciousness is God, of which our individualized souls (Jivas) are fragments. It is the goal and indeed the destiny of each fragment to find it’s way back to the whole, where it fits in it’s place like a piece to a puzzle. This is why I quoted your scriptures in regard to loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. It is all one thing, or so I believe. Like drops of water that splash out of the ocean to have their own seemingly separate existence for a time. When the drops return to the ocean, there is no longer an individual drop. What was the drop still exists, but now it is the ocean from whence it came. Where is the drop now? There is only the ocean. The One consciousness. The physical world exists within it, and therefore every part of the physical world is part of it and created by it. This is why everything is sacred. You experience what is sacred by treating things as sacred. I do not think that any of this is in conflict with Christianity however, I do think it is not a commonly held view in Christianity.

As for free will. yes I think we have some. But I think it takes a good deal of concentration to exercise it. Without concentration on exercising free will, we give learned automated responses for the most part to most of the stimuli we encounter. If you watch yourself, you will notice yourself doing the same things in the same way over and over again. We are hardly giving it a thought. The first time you drive a car you are very aware. You are aware of the feel of the road vibrating into the steering wheel, and the sensation of acceleration responding to your foot on the pedal. After a while you are not very aware of any of this. It has become common place and you have become robotic. There is a theory that we create robots within ourselves that take over mundane day to day tasks for us so that we can focus on other things, like the abstracts we talked about earlier. We don’t think much about walking. We don’t notice the heel of one foot connecting with the ground while the ball of the other foot rolls off the ground. We are not aware. Spend some time walking very slowly and watching. You will see that we are missing a lot of what we do. This is why you and I could take a walk and talk to each other and concentrate on what we are saying and thinking to one another. In this regard. these little robots are very useful. The problem is that they like to take on more and more. Eventually, they are doing most of our living for us, and we are truly not giving anything much thought and we are not exercising very much free will. This is why I and many others feel that free will takes a good deal of intent and concentration. Free will happens. Just probably not nearly as much as it could.

Just something to consider if you are inclined to consider it.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[PJM]

=Sufjon;7240440]Hi Pat: Two plus two equals four is an abstract. It only exists as signals between neurons in the mind. There is no two plus two. It is a calculation and a measurement used by the mind to make an appraisal of things. Very useful, but it exists only in the mind. You can count, add, multiply and divide apples in your mind, but in fact there are only apples.

OK, but it still remains a singulr truth does it not?

I have to agree that the true self exists outside of the causal world. I believe that the physical world is created by consciousness, of which there is only One. In my faith, that one consciousness is God, of which our individualized souls (Jivas) are fragments. It is the goal and indeed the destiny of each fragment to find it’s way back to the whole, where it fits in it’s place like a piece to a puzzle. This is why I quoted your scriptures in regard to loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself. It is all one thing, or so I believe. Like drops of water that splash out of the ocean to have their own seemingly separate existence for a time. When the drops return to the ocean, there is no longer an individual drop. What was the drop still exists, but now it is the ocean from whence it came. Where is the drop now? There is only the ocean. The One consciousness. The physical world exists within it, and therefore every part of the physical world is part of it and created by it. This is why everything is sacred. You experience what is sacred by treating things as sacred. I do not think that any of this is in conflict with Christianity however, I do think it is not a commonly held view in Christianity.

While what makes us function better than and diferently from other worldly things are spiritul; we nevertheles with BOTH our physical realities of our bodies and our Spiritual realities of our minds, do exit in the world as realities.

As for free will. yes I think we have some. But I think it takes a good deal of concentration to exercise it. Without concentration on exercising free will, we give learned automated responses for the most part to most of the stimuli we encounter. If you watch yourself, you will notice yourself doing the same things in the same way over and over again. We are hardly giving it a thought. Just something to consider if you are inclined to consider it.

So we agre that we have a “freewill.” Do we agreeo that it is Spiritual? And to what do you attribute its source?

What is your understanding of God?

What is your understanding of an after life?

Do you accept the concept of good and evil; sin and grace?

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Sufjon]

OK, but it still remains a singulr truth does it not?

While what makes us function better than and diferently from other worldly things are spiritul; we nevertheles with BOTH our physical realities of our bodies and our Spiritual realities of our minds, do exit in the world as realities.

As for free will. yes I think we have some. But I think it takes a good deal of concentration to exercise it. Without concentration on exercising free will, we give learned automated responses for the most part to most of the stimuli we encounter. If you watch yourself, you will notice yourself doing the same things in the same way over and over again. We are hardly giving it a thought. Just something to consider if you are inclined to consider it.

So we agre that we have a “freewill.” Do we agreeo that it is Spiritual? And to what do you attribute its source?

What is your understanding of God?

What is your understanding of an after life?

Do you accept the concept of good and evil; sin and grace?

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Sufjon]

OK, but it still remains a singulr truth does it not?

Hi Pat: I think God is the only singular truth. He is the Singularity from which all of creation emanates.

While what makes us function better than and diferently from other worldly things are spiritul; we nevertheles with BOTH our physical realities of our bodies and our Spiritual realities of our minds, do exit in the world as realities.

I think all things are spiritual.

So we agre that we have a “freewill.” Do we agreeo that it is Spiritual? And to what do you attribute its source?

Here begins a series of questions you have asked me about what I believe. Please be mindful that I am only explaining what I believe and not suggesting that you believe it. This is my faith, and I would never try to convince you or anyone of it. Ok, yes, we have free will, but we do not use it much. The source of it is the same source as everything else.

What is your understanding of God?

I will tell you my understanding of God, although it may not seem familiar to you. Sorry, It’ s very long, but as shortened as I can make it:
-He is the Self in all creatures. There is only one Self.
-That which makes the tongue to speak but cannot be spoken by the tongue, that is Self.
-That which makes the eye to see but cannot be seen by the eye, that is the self.
-That which makes the ear to hear but cannot be heard by the ear, that is the Self.
-There is only one way to know the self, and that is to realize Him in yourself.
He is the effulgent Self, who is beyond thought. He shines in the greatest, shines in the smallest, shines in the farthest, shines in the nearest, shines in the chamber of the heart.
-Beyond the reaches of the sense is He, but not beyond the reach of a stilled mind.
-He is the sun and the moon and the stars. He is the air and the sea and the creator of them too.
-He is this boy and that girl, He is this man and that woman. His face is everywhere.
-The Self is not someone other than you.
-There is only one Self. It is the beginning, the middle and the end of the heart of every creature.
This is how I see God.

What is your understanding of an after life?

I believe there is one life. That which we truly are has always been and always will be. Only these bodies die. Death is an illusion. Heaven and hell are states of being. You need not wait to die to experience either. To see the Lord in every creature and in yourself and to serve them as such is to know heaven.

Do you accept the concept of good and evil; sin and grace?

Yes, there is good and evil, but for there to be a material world they must both exists because they are codependent. One without the other would cause all things to stop in the material world. Sin is the failure to see God in others and in yourself. That is gateway sin to all other sin. The one who sees the Lord in themselves and in every creature has no desire to defile himself or others.
Love and prayers back at you,
Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[PJM]

=Sufjon;7242498]Hi Pat: I think God is the only singular truth. He is the Singularity from which all of creation emanates.

I think all things are spiritual.

Here begins a series of questions you have asked me about what I believe. Please be mindful that I am only explaining what I believe and not suggesting that you believe it. This is my faith, and I would never try to convince you or anyone of it. Ok, yes, we have free will, but we do not use it much. The source of it is the same source as everything else.

I will tell you my understanding of God, although it may not seem familiar to you. Sorry, It’ s very long, but as shortened as I can make it:
-He is the Self in all creatures. There is only one Self.
-That which makes the tongue to speak but cannot be spoken by the tongue, that is Self.
-That which makes the eye to see but cannot be seen by the eye, that is the self.
-That which makes the ear to hear but cannot be heard by the ear, that is the Self.
-There is only one way to know the self, and that is to realize Him in yourself.
He is the effulgent Self, who is beyond thought. He shines in the greatest, shines in the smallest, shines in the farthest, shines in the nearest, shines in the chamber of the heart.
-Beyond the reaches of the sense is He, but not beyond the reach of a stilled mind.
-He is the sun and the moon and the stars. He is the air and the sea and the creator of them too.
-He is this boy and that girl, He is this man and that woman. His face is everywhere.
-The Self is not someone other than you.
-There is only one Self. It is the beginning, the middle and the end of the heart of every creature.
This is how I see God.

I believe there is one life. That which we truly are has always been and always will be. Only these bodies die. Death is an illusion. Heaven and hell are states of being. You need not wait to die to experience either. To see the Lord in every creature and in yourself and to serve them as such is to know heaven.

Yes, there is good and evil, but for there to be a material world they must both exists because they are codependent. One without the other would cause all things to stop in the material world. Sin is the failure to see God in others and in yourself. That is gateway sin to all other sin. The one who sees the Lord in themselves and in every creature has no desire to defile himself or others.
Love and prayers back at you,
Your friend,
Sufjon

Sincere THANKS!

I’ve gained some insights.

I really have no idea where to go from this point, and I have really enjoyed our discussion.

God bless,
Pat

 

[Sufjon]

Sincere THANKS!

I’ve gained some insights.

I really have no idea where to go from this point, and I have really enjoyed our discussion.

God bless,
Pat

I have very much enjoyed our discussion as well Pat. I also admire your patience and I’m fortunate to know you!

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[TedDC]

Dear friends in Christ,

Do we [all /most] of us make Christ into our Image of Him, rather than endeavoring to form ourselves in His Image?

Yes, very definitely. For example, when I see postings here about how God’s justice demands that some people burn in Hell forever, “God’s justice” begins to sound suspiciously like “man’s vengefulness”.

 

[PJM]

=Sufjon;7243179]I have very much enjoyed our discussion as well Pat. I also admire your patience and I’m fortunate to know you!

Your friend
Sufjon

If you have any specifc questions about the Catholic faith I can answer them for you. Always happy to aid your research.

Pat

 

[Sufjon]

If you have any specifc questions about the Catholic faith I can answer them for you. Always happy to aid your research.

Pat

Thanks Pat - I never run out of questions

Your friend
Sufjon