Why are atheists so unhappy?

[Gabriella_San_S]

gotta love the logic of trying to create a fictitious nexus between communists and non-theists. Communism didn’t like religion because they felt it was used by the ruling class to manipulate the masses. Atheists and agnostics don’t adhere to religion because we simply don’t believe its claims (no atheist I’ve ever come across seeks to infringe on any ones religious rights).

This is how religion operates and sustains itself. Creating illogical connections between unrelated facts and events, fostering paranoia among its adherents, and creating false boogy men (who are out to devour the true blue righteous remnant … etc, etc.). Same old story for centuries? However, it’s not like anyone can say clergy men are all bent on some global conspiracy to manipulate the minds of the masses. Members of the clergy are almost always exceptional men and women of faith. In other words they really believe this stuff, so creating an atmosphere of paranoia and intolerance is not something they conspire to do … but rather it’s an inherent trait of religion.

You must have some credentials, given your assertions on history, religion and anthropology.
Did you say that no atheist has*** ever ***infringed on anyone’s religious rights? Perhaps we should stop there.***Any ***other point you may have attempted to make after that statement, was lost.
God is good, and His desire is for you. Peace.

 

[josie_L]

gotta love the logic of trying to create a fictitious nexus between communists and non-theists. Communism didn’t like religion because they felt it was used by the ruling class to manipulate the masses. Atheists and agnostics don’t adhere to religion because we simply don’t believe its claims (no atheist I’ve ever come across seeks to infringe on any ones religious rights).

This is how religion operates and sustains itself. Creating illogical connections between unrelated facts and events, fostering paranoia among its adherents, and creating false boogy men (who are out to devour the true blue righteous remnant … etc, etc.). Same old story for centuries? However, it’s not like anyone can say clergy men are all bent on some global conspiracy to manipulate the minds of the masses. Members of the clergy are almost always exceptional men and women of faith. In other words they really believe this stuff, so creating an atmosphere of paranoia and intolerance is not something they conspire to do … but rather it’s an inherent trait of religion.

Karl Marx was an atheist who devised socialism and thus created a system that would divest society of God, and you want to tell me that his atheist worldview (and anyone who chose communism) had nothing to do with the horrors committed in it’s name? It is impossible to separate atheism from communism as one flows from the other, blame that on Marx.

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

Because if they believed/practiced moral absolutism they would not have committed the crimes they did.

Not at all. We often do things we know to be – in the long run – bad for us. But sometimes we succumb to the moment; sometimes our emotions get the better of us. Usually it’s a case of emotions overruling logic.

But there’s another problem with your statement: we can’t always agree with what’s moral. The fact that there are a thousand Christian denominations in the world, disagreeing on whether, for example, capital punishment is a sin, is strong evidence for that.

Moral Absolutism was not under attack in medieval Europe as it is under attack now for the aforementioned reasons mentioned earlier. People have always to some extent practiced moral relativism but in a society that recognized moral absolutes, this changed with the advancement of atheistic/secular thought as we see more and more people deny the (logical) reality of moral absolutes.

Obviously I don’t acknowledge the “logic” of moral absolutism. Every situation is different. Hell, even the Catholic church admits that there are certain situations where killing another human being is necessary. I think moral absolutism stems from mental laziness. It’s easier to say: *this is always wrong – end of story! *than to actually have to consider all the variables.

 

[ahoyhoy]

But it seems there an awful lot of them out there who are unhappy (usually the militant atheists). I’m thinking of the Madelyn Murray O’Hair variety who campaigned to have prayer removed from schools, and those who file lawsuits to have ‘In God We Trust’ removed from currency, state flags, to have 'under God’removed from the pledge, who campaign to have all public displays of religion (crosses, manger scenes, etc) banned, or those who who write books attacking belief in God (like Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins). I find it rather ironic, because these people who attack believers for proseltysing and attempting to convert people to their religion are themselves shoving their beliefs down others throats. Ironic too, in the fact that atheism is a belief in a negative, while religious believers, whether Christian, Jew, Hindu, Moslem, pagan etc. (in fact the majority of the people on this planet) believe in something, whether it be a deity or deities (I’m inclined to believe there are no true atheists- they worship something other than God, whether it be themselves, sex, science, nature, etc).

I’ll never understand why militant atheists, who are otherwise logical, continue to believe that religion is the root of all evil.

I don’t think the majority of atheists are unhappy, though. We tend not to notice them mainly because the militant atheists are SO loud their eternal punishment should be to listen to themselves speak. Or rant, whichever one it is they seem to be doing all the time…

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

Then all you really need to know is the freedom of repentance and the embrace of our All-forgiving God!

But I don’t believe in him, so I can’t believe in repentance!

A single “act” of submission on your part, to God’s majesty might clear up your confusion.

But I don’t believe in him, so I can’t submit to “God’s majesty”, any more than I can submit to Allah’s majesty, or the power of Vishnu, or Zeus, or … etc.

I’m sorry for the pain that drove you away from God. His gaze has never left you, His beloved child! He knows what you’re suffering and He desires to comfort you. Don’t turn away from the only One who can heal your heart! May He bless you and deliver you from your despair, dear friend. Peace.

Oh, boy. Despair? You are presumptious.

 

[josie_L]

Not at all. We often do things we know to be – in the long run – bad for us. But sometimes we succumb to the moment; sometimes our emotions get the better of us. Usually it’s a case of emotions overruling logic.

But for whatever reasons they succumbed to moral relativism.

But there’s another problem with your statement: we can’t always agree with what’s moral. The fact that there are a thousand Christian denominations in the world, disagreeing on whether, for example, capital punishment is a sin, is strong evidence for that.

Obviously we can agree, in fact, that’s why they’re in jail. As for capital punishment that’s not the same as murder (an absolute), so this is why we have differences in opinions.

Obviously I don’t acknowledge the “logic” of moral absolutism. Every situation is different. Hell, even the Catholic church admits that there are certain situations where killing another human being is necessary. I think moral absolutism stems from mental laziness. It’s easier to say: *this is always wrong – end of story! *than to actually have to consider all the variables.

There are such things as moral absolutes and situational ethics doesn’t change this. If you wish a deeper understanding of this I would advise you to look back several pages (probably around the beginning of August) on this thread as we dealt with this already. God bless.

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

If you don’t believe in God, how can you be angry at Someone who doesn’t exist?

I’m not angry at him. I am taking, for the sake of argument, the position that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God exists, and pointing out the problems I would then have with the belief that He would be all-loving. Don’t you, when arguing with atheists, start with the premise that He doesn’t exist, and then point out the problems with that position?

If this earthly life were the end-all, be-all of existence, then yes, God could prove his love by eliminating earthly suffering. But we as Christians we are destined for something infinitely better. God is our Father in Heaven, not our Grandfather in Heaven (see where I quoted C.S. Lewis in post #908).

The evidence for heaven is even weaker than the evidence for reincarnation – which is incredibly weak.

 

[josie_L]

I’m not angry at him. I am taking, for the sake of argument, the position that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God exists, and pointing out the problems I would then have with the belief that He would be all-loving. Don’t you, when arguing with atheists, start with the premise that He doesn’t exist, and then point out the problems with that position?

The evidence for heaven is even weaker than the evidence for reincarnation – which is incredibly weak.

And the evidence for nothingness (after death) is very weak compared to the evidence of an afterlife.

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

I didn’t base my comments on any “study” (like the old bromide says, there are three kinds of untruths, lies, damn lies and statistics) but simply on my life experience

And the life experiences of Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists are often quite different.

Many atheists (and I am not talking about agnostics, or “happy hedonists” who ignore the question of God, but those who make atheism their creed) do not simply deny the existence of God, but positively rage against him (again, borne out by some of the posts on this thread).** Indeed, you need a strong stomach to endure some of the vile venom spewed on some atheistic websites.**

See my earlier post for a comment on railing against God.

As for the highlighted part, some of the nastiest comments I’ve heard and read about Catholics come from protestants.

As for venom, well, it works both ways. Have you ever checked out religioustolerance.org? If not, I hope you do. Look at some of the e-mails on their website. Now not all the comments come from Christians, but many of them do. And yes, you do need a strong stomach.

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

And the evidence for nothingness (after death) is very weak compared to the evidence of an afterlife.

Wishful thinking. The evidence for the afterlife is simply … the Bible says so!

The evidence for reincarnation (which hundreds of millions believe in) is that more humans appear on the planet and some claim to remember past lives.

The evidence for nothingness is … a rotting body, with no sign of anything (a soul) emerging from it after death.

 

[RNRobert]

Wishful thinking. The evidence for the afterlife is simply … the Bible says so!

There are a number of people (many who are not Christian) who claim to have had near-death experiences where they experience heaven-like experiences (some have also had hellish experiences.

 

[RNRobert]

And the life experiences of Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists are often quite different.

I wasn’t talking about them, I was talking about militant atheists.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

But I don’t believe in him, so I can’t believe in repentance!

That’s an easy escape…check your ‘denial meter’, you’ve fed it for too long!

But I don’t believe in him, so I can’t submit to “God’s majesty”, any more than I can submit to Allah’s majesty, or the power of Vishnu, or Zeus, or … etc.

It must be scary for you, like the bottom has dropped out.

Oh, boy. Despair? You are presumptious.

And you, my friend, a bit defensive, but on the journey, just the same. You will find your way back…He is in “relentless pursuit” of those who are lost. May He bless you today. Peace and love.

 

[josie_L]

This is how religion operates and sustains itself. Creating illogical connections between unrelated facts and events, fostering paranoia among its adherents, and creating false boogy men (who are out to devour the true blue righteous remnant … etc, etc.). Same old story for centuries? However, it’s not like anyone can say clergy men are all bent on some global conspiracy to manipulate the minds of the masses. Members of the clergy are almost always exceptional men and women of faith. In other words they really believe this stuff, so creating an atmosphere of paranoia and intolerance is not something they conspire to do … but rather it’s an inherent trait of religion.

:hypno: I must listen to my priest, :hypno: I must listen to my priest, :hypno: I must listen to my priest.

 

[josie_L]

Wishful thinking. The evidence for the afterlife is simply … the Bible says so!

The evidence for reincarnation (which hundreds of millions believe in) is that more humans appear on the planet and some claim to remember past lives.

The evidence for nothingness is … a rotting body, with no sign of anything (a soul) emerging from it after death.

Actually it’s not wishful thinking as doctors are researching cases of out of body experiences and life after death situations coming to the realization that consciousness (i.e., our soul) can exist outside of the body. I will post these sites for your perusal.

 

[RNRobert]

:hypno: I must listen to my priest, :hypno: I must listen to my priest, :hypno: I must listen to my priest.

Of course, we’re all simply brainwashed fools who’ve turned off our brains…

 

[Convert66]

I must listen to my priest, :hypno: I must listen to my priest, :hypno: I must listen to my priest.



Of course, we’re all simply brainwashed fools who’ve turned off our brains…

We have brains? Have you checked with the Magisterium about that?:bowdown:

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

We have brains? Have you checked with the Magisterium about that?:bowdown:

Good News!! I checked-(just to be safe)…and I found out that our*** hearts*** are the dwelling place of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Who enter in at baptism and remain while we’re in a state of grace…so we can even be “brainless”, “blind” and “bashful”, but enlightenment will prevail*-all the more*! “…Unless you become like little children, you shall not inherit the Kingdom of God…” (Jesus Christ)

 

[RNRobert]

We have brains? Have you checked with the Magisterium about that?:bowdown:

I forgot- we turned in our brains when we were baptized! Thank for reminding me!:whacky:

 

[cerad]

There are a number of people (many who are not Christian) who claim to have had near-death experiences where they experience heaven-like experiences (some have also had hellish experiences.

Which of course is evidence for life after near-death. Not quite the same as evidence for life after actual death.