Why are atheists so unhappy?

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Charles_Darwin said:
Oh right so when you kill a nazi then your not actually killing them :confused:. Why can’t you just admit “killing is wrong” is not an absolute. If there are any cases where it is acceptable to kill, killing is not ALWAYS wrong. Therefore it is NOT an absolute.
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Because “Killing is wrong” does not haev enough Context to Judge.
In some cases it is justified. So it is absolute that in a justified war, the killing is Justified if your a soldir in a JUST war.
It is Absolute that Murder of an Innocent is always wrong.
But to Broaden it into “Killing” in General, does not give enough context to judge the Motives, and Conditions.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Oh right so when you kill a nazi then your not actually killing them :confused:. Why can’t you just admit “killing is wrong” is not an absolute. If there are any cases where it is acceptable to kill, killing is not ALWAYS wrong. Therefore it is NOT an absolute.
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You cannot discuss such things as killing/murder in such literal terms because we are talking about the essence/rationale of actions, therefore you must take a more philosophical approach to understanding situational ethics. You seem not to understand this because you have a very narrow approach in grasping the truth.

So I will state again it is not morally wrong to take the life of a Nazi (this is not killing-murder) who is trying to destroy you and your way of life and because it is not morally wrong it does not affect the moral absolute of “killing-murder is wrong”.
 
Akheron said:
I don’t seek arguments to use against anyone. This is not verbal warfare. I am very well satisfied with just presenting my opinion to the readers.

I haven’t responded to StillWondering because I have stated my position several times and we are just discussing in circles, going nowhere and I don’t see how repeating myself would further the discussion.

May I suggest that maybe you are the one lacking answers, as you have neglected to respond to many questions of mine on the another thread we have been discussing on.
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Please do not take offence, but it did seem odd that no one was responding to his posts (they were good). Anyways, I have answered some of those (many) questions in the other thread. Peace.

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josie_L said:
Please do not take offence, but it did seem odd that no one was responding to his posts (they were good). Anyways, I have answered some of those (many) questions in the other thread. Peace.

.
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Going in Circles does not help, one side is going to run out of ammunition, run out of an arguement, and give way. But what is happening now, is that one side cant grap a certain point of view.

hmmm… What does it take to prove an Athiest that G-d is there?
What are, Athiests Looking for? Is it a Particulary question/answer?
Do they refuse to acknowledge?
I think if we clarify our objectives we can help both sides, understand the arguement.
 
Angel7 said:
Going in Circles does not help, one side is going to run out of ammunition, run out of an arguement, and give way. But what is happening now, is that one side cant grap a certain point of view.
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Exactly, for you have all stated that the morals absolutes are in fact not absolute. So we all agree.

The bible says thou shalt not kill

It does not say thou shalt not kill unless hitler is rampaging across europe, or someone breaks into your house etc etc.

So we can ALL agree thou shalt not kill does not give us enough information to go on to come to a moral decision, and is therefore NOT absolute.

The exact same can be said for false witness and so on.
 
Is it because God doesn’t believe in them and therefore they don’t exist???
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Exactly, for you have all stated that the morals absolutes are in fact not absolute. So we all agree.

The bible says thou shalt not kill

It does not say thou shalt not kill unless hitler is rampaging across europe, or someone breaks into your house etc etc.

So we can ALL agree thou shalt not kill does not give us enough information to go on to come to a moral decision, and is therefore NOT absolute.

The exact same can be said for false witness and so on.
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The Bible says “thou shalt not murder.”
 
Do Atheists/moral relativists believe that morals have progressed with time?
 
SHW said:
Human life is precious/sacred. However, I do not see that killing a person who is attacking me in order to protect my own life is a problem at all with this moral absolute. My intention is to stop him from harming me at that moment. If he loses his life because of this, it still does not change the fact that all life is precious. He forfeits his own life as a consequence of his own actions. Now, if he gets away after killing a member of my family, I cannot take revenge on him and shoot him in the back at a later time. That would be in violation of this moral absolute that all life is precious.
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I will not repeat myself but I stand by my previous statement.
SHW said:
Yes, however, when the rubber meets the road, pain of any kind is not a pleasant thing to have to deal with. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. We must look instead to the future with God’s promise of eternal life.
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We could also look at this present life and think about how we could be better persons now and here on Earth.
SHW said:
Since Muslims believe that Allah is the God of Abraham, then we worship the same God, because our God is the God of Abraham. Their understanding of God is not the same as ours though.
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I believe your God is trinitarian, while theirs isn’t. So it doesn’t seem that They are quite the same. But I’ll leave that for you and them to discuss.
SHW said:
The reason Christianity and Atheism are diametrically opposed is this: Either you serve God or you serve Satan because there are only two places possible to spend eternity; heaven or hell; God is the ruler of heaven and Satan is lord of hell and so even if atheists do not realize that they are serving Satan by opposing God, they still are.

Atheists reject/deny God on earth so God will reject them when they die. Only God knows each person’s heart, and He is both a merciful God and a just God whose judgment is right.
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If only Christians are “serving God” and all the rest, atheists as well as believers of other religions (including presumably some of the 30,000+ Christian denominations that you would deem un-Christian and in error, but let’s set that aside) are “serving Satan”, it would seem that the odds are not in favour of God, as two thirds of the world are not worshiping Him.

However another Christian on another thread has told me that the Church is doing quite fine and that God’s project is coming along quite fine too. Maybe you would disagree with that person. But I’ll leave that for you and your fellow Christians to discuss.

I could also tell you that atheists actually are merely human beings just like you. But I suspect you wouldn’t listen, so I’ll leave you to your prejudices.
 
Akheron said:
We could also look at this present life and think about how we could be better persons now and here on Earth.
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We couldn’t get into Heaven if we weren’t good people on Earth first. We are to be the light and salt of the world.
I believe your God is trinitarian, while theirs isn’t. So it doesn’t seem that They are quite the same. But I’ll leave that for you and them to discuss.
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Yes, they do not believe God to be trinitarian but they are worshipping him nevertheless (it’s hard to explain but they have a mishmash of Judaic and Christian beliefs with a little extra Mohammed on the side).
If only Christians are “serving God” and all the rest, atheists as well as believers of other religions (including presumably some of the 30,000+ Christian denominations that you would deem un-Christian and in error, but let’s set that aside) are “serving Satan”, it would seem that the odds are not in favour of God, as two thirds of the world are not worshiping Him.
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The Church does not state atheists and non Christians are “serving Satan”, but those who do reject God’s truth willfully (can make no claim of ignorance) are in effect playing into the hands of Satan. Having said this, there are atheists who can and do live morally upright lives and so they echo the love God has for them. The beautiful thing about God is that He created each and everyone of us in his image and then offered up his Son for our salvation. I think you having read the NT can see the love that Christ had for us (whether you believe it or not).
I could also tell you that atheists actually are merely human beings just like you. But I suspect you wouldn’t listen, so I’ll leave you to your prejudices.
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Yes, you are right (we are all human beings with similar needs), furthermore we are to love everyone as Jesus commanded and/or expected of us.
 
josie_L said:
Well if morals progress what are they progressing towards?
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I had a feeling you would say something like this. 🙂
There is no need for a maximum (a moral ideal in this case) to make progress.
And you don’t need an absolute ruler to measure differencies.

Oh, and if I already knew what moral (or any other) progress humankind will make in the future, I’d change my profession. Like becoming a prophet.
 
josie_L said:
Do Atheists/moral relativists believe that morals have progressed with time?
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Nothing different about atheists here. If people didn’t generally believe that, they would still hold the same morals as people living hundreds or thousands of years ago.

What is morality progressing towards? We don’t need to think of morality as progressing towards anything static anymore than we need to think of biological evolution as having a goal other than undefined betterness.
 
CWBetts said:
THe changes you mention were brought about by the Church. Study your history.
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Haha it only took them 1950 years and it was the CHRISTIANS that practiced that lot. Read yours. It was society that dragged the church, kicking and screaming, out the of dark ages. Why did it take your church 1950 years to realise these things were immoral, if morals are absolutes?
 
THe changes you mention were brought about by the Church. Study your history.
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I was under the impression that the following was responsible, at least in this country anyway.

Slavery = Civil War
Womens Rights = Womens Suffrage (Voting at least, got the ball rolling)
Racism = Still Around in a big way
Workers Rights = Unions
 
j1akey said:
I was under the impression that the following was responsible, at least in this country anyway.

Slavery = Civil War
Womens Rights = Womens Suffrage (Voting at least, got the ball rolling)
Racism = Still Around in a big way
Workers Rights = Unions
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Yeah but the church fought the war, prayed to make women fight and set up the unions :rolleyes:. 😃
 
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