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CWBetts
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God does not hold those culpable who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel
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rbiaca
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My point had absolutely nothing to do with salvation, but about getting to know God. The OP claimed that there were all sorts of intellectual ways that a person could find God.
Wouldn’t one need to know about this God, before the person knew to start reading about the saints, the sacraments etc…?
The OP clearly said that God did not have to reveal himself to anyone. The OP then went on to list all sorts of intellectual pursuits could use to get to know this God.
Which resulted in my post, how on earth could a tribal man learn about this God who refuses to reveal himself, unless someone happens to find his tribe and tell him about this God?
In any event, your post reminds me of the old story;
Inuk: Father, if a man was not told about Jesus, could he still get to heaven?
Priest: Yes he most certainly could.
Inuk: Then why would you tell me about him?
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Joan_of_Bark
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I’m a very happy atheist.
What’s more, I believe that the reason for the rapid spread of Christianity in the first few centuries was due to the unhappiness of people who were comforted by the thought that they would one day go to heaven and be eternally happy. Christianity appealed to the poor and downtrodden because it promised happiness in the world to come (and unhappiness for all those scummy rich people who were not of the “one true” belief).
This still applies today. I’m sure many Christians are engaging in wish fulfilment in hoping to be happy in their imagined afterlife.
What’s more, I believe that the reason for the rapid spread of Christianity in the first few centuries was due to the unhappiness of people who were comforted by the thought that they would one day go to heaven and be eternally happy. Christianity appealed to the poor and downtrodden because it promised happiness in the world to come (and unhappiness for all those scummy rich people who were not of the “one true” belief).
This still applies today. I’m sure many Christians are engaging in wish fulfilment in hoping to be happy in their imagined afterlife.
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Joan_of_Bark
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But is it not true that in official Catholic doctrine non-Catholics cannot go to heaven? At best they will end up in the circle of hell with other virtuous pagans?
If God had any sense, he would simply beam the Bible directly into the brains of all newborns (or newly-conceived, if you believe that live begins at conception). Then we could bypass all the problems of transcription, translation, distribution and interpretation of his sacred word. And that way, every human being would have the opportunity to be saved.
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josie_L
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Who are you to tell me it’s meaningless and it doesn’t matter whether they were former theists or not? I know that if one examines the issues of life, how we got here, who/what created the Universe, why do we have consciousness/conscience . . etc. You can come to realize that something greater than ourselves may very well exist. It’s not brain science but a willingness to look at all aspects (look for example at life after death experiences, they are now experimenting and researching this phenomena and from what I understand coming to the knowledge that consciousness exists separate from the body). God bless.
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josie_L
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Do you think God will send them to Hell if they were ignorant of the truth and if you do then it’s no wonder you’re a fallen away Catholic. . . ?
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josie_L
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Exactly what “official” Catholic doctrine are you refering to? And I assume you can provide the information as you seem to think yourself correct in making such a statement.
p.s. I’m glad to know you think yourself smarter than God.
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josie_L
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Thank you Freud for that wonderful psychoanalysis.
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Convert66
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Hello there Joan,
----I’m sure many atheists are engaging in wish-fulfillment in hoping to be happy in their sins. -----
:doh2:See how easy it is to make silly statements?
Thanks for playing . . .
All my best . . .
I’m a very happy theist. Nice to meet you.
Rome was multicultural, and there were as many beliefs about eternal happiness as there were Roman Legions and Roman slaves. Your reason for the rapid spread of Christianity fails.
So did every other pagan religion in the empire. And Christianity also appealed to the rich and powerful in Rome and throughout the empire. Again, your reasoning fails.
It doesn’t merely still apply today, even if we overlook your specious reasoning that lead you to this conclusion . . .which I’m not.
----I’m sure many atheists are engaging in wish-fulfillment in hoping to be happy in their sins. -----
:doh2:See how easy it is to make silly statements?
Thanks for playing . . .
All my best . . .
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CWBetts
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Actually, no, it isn’t true. GOd is just, but he is also merciful. There is only one revealed path to salvation, but that does not mean there may be unrevealed paths for those that have no knowledge of the Gospel through no fault of their own
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Charles_Darwin
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rbiaca has already pointed out its not about salvation.
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rbiaca
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Who am I? I am RBIACA!
‘Open your heart and mind to God’ is an old canard that the religious throw at non-believers. You may as well tell an atheist, ‘open your soul to Gods loving embrace and he’ll shower you will never ending joy.’
A meaningless statement…but sounds so promising.
Please, cite your source of these studies.
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rbiaca
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I know perfectly well what the Catholic teaching is regarding the hope of salvation regarding non believers and believers of other faiths.
My point has absolutely nothing at all to do with salvation.
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rbiaca
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Why such a sarcastic and patronizing response, to what was clearly an honest and thoughtful post?
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CWBetts
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Perhaps the sarcasm was in response to the arrogant and condescending tone
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CWBetts
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After putting some thought into this, you have asked a question with no succinct answer. I have no idea how god reveals Himself to the people you mention, but I know that he does. Sometimes He uses human agents. Sometimes He reveals Himself through logical conclusion. THere are as many ways that he reveals Himself as there are people. I am unable to answer how God reveals Himself to others, but only how He has revealed Himself to me. And truthfully, to expect anyone to answer your question to the degree that I am sure you want it answer, in my opinion, is somewhat unreasonable.
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rbiaca
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Thank you’
However, I’ll have to remind you that my question, was directed more towards a poster who claimed that God does not have to reveal himself to anyone. This poster then went on to list all sorts of intellectual pursuits a person can undertake in order to meet this God.
I was pointing out that the OP’s stance on how people get to know God, is highly restrictive to those who live in modern socities, have access to reading material, the mental capacity to absorb what is being read and the good fortune of having been told about which God is true and which God they are to spend their time researching.
In a Taliban controlled Afghanistan, how is a little girl going to go out and read books about the saints, the sacraments or even the Bible, if she’s not only forbidden from going to school, but apostasy carries with it a penalty of death?
That was my point, that it is rather odd that the creator of the universe depends upon word of mouth to get his message out, when after 2000 years, there are still billions of people who have never and will never get to hear this good news.
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Charles_Darwin
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There are many things he doesn’t seem to be able to do as well as humans.
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CWBetts
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Quite often, GOd is revealed in the behaviour of faithful Catholics! That is how I was brought into the Church–by a classmate in college. As a Catholic I must remember that there are people that I meet that will never go to Mass, never hear a homily. Therefore I must be that Mass. I must be that homily. I must be Jesus for them. Perhaps it is “odd” that God uses human agents, when it is well within his power to just “make everyone believe”. But that is not what He wants. He wants people to make the concious choice. Why? I have no idea. I believe the Scriptures say that it is impossible to know the mind of God. So I continue and try to learn as much about Him as I can, and to present myself in a way that is honorable to God and His Church.
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CWBetts
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Honestly is it possibl;e for you to make a post without it being either sarcastic or an attempt to insult God?
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