Why are atheists so unhappy?

[Joan_of_Bark]

The majority of the world’s population is not Christian because there are barriers being set in many of the nations which are non-Christian, for example, there is **socialicism/communisim in China that is preventing and persecuting the (underground) Church from spreading the news (that’s like a billion people, right?) **and then there’s the Middle East which for the most part persecutes Christians, and in some places disallows the promulgation of Christianity altogether (Saudi Arabia), and as for India the Christians who are flourishing are being threatened and have been threatened and killed (Orissa) by Hindu fundamentalists who have done much evil in the last year or two. It’s not exactly easy to bring about the Word of God in such conditions and yet it is false to assume that Christians haven’t penetrated these areas, they have. Furthermore, we have many missionaries who are putting their life on the line to preach to these countries and/or non-Christian regions.

The bolded part is certainly true, but remember that China also keeps Islam and other theistically-based religions out of their country (BTW, atheists I know all believe in freedom of religion for all religious denominations). Which raises an interesting thought experiment: if China were to open it’s doors to prostelytizing, which religion would gain the most converts? Protestantism, Catholicism, Islam?

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

You must stop barking long enough to let your heart find it’s way to it’s deepest longing!

Wow, that’s amazing! You’ve never met me, but you know my deepest yearnings. You should be on TV.

You were made for God,my friend! Such strong defenses are screaming of your pain! God is ALL-LOVING

So why did he create malaria, earthquakes, cholera, influenza, floods, polio, smallpox, hurricanes, yellow fever and sudden infant death syndrome? As a sign of his love?

…turn to Him in your brokenness

Whoa! could you be any more judgemental? You know next to nothing about my life. I might be happier than you are.

 

[Joan_of_Bark]

If there are virtuous pagans who have never heard the word of God then God will judge them solely on their actions, if there are those who have heard the Word of God but reject it out of ignorance then they too have the possibility to be saved (on condition that they are virtuous). However, the Church’s stance can be reflected in these few lines in the Cathechism:

“Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.” pg. 224 para. 846 of the CCC

The key word here being “knowing”, so it is hard to establish who is not saved as only God could truly know a person’s heart and understanding/knowledge of the Truth

As for Limbo, just remember it was never declared a dogma of the Church and so not binding on us believers. Unbaptized babies would be treated I would believe like those who never heard the Word of God (but are virtuous), so therefore they are not condemned to limbo. God bless.

Thanks for the info. I’ll read the section you cite.

 

[josie_L]

You’re welcome.

The title of this thread is Why are atheists so unhappy? If Christians can analyse me, then I don’t see why I can’t do the same with Christians.

Yes, but the OP of the thread mentioned that the title of thread was not well-worded and didn’t convey what he wished to discuss. I’m not sure on which page he stated this though.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Wow, that’s amazing! You’ve never met me, but you know my deepest yearnings. You should be on TV.

It’s* inherent *in every person to long for the God who made us. I do know you well in that regard. (I should tell you that T.V. is one thing I’ll never long for.)

So why did he create malaria, earthquakes, cholera, influenza, floods, polio, smallpox, hurricanes, yellow fever and sudden infant death syndrome? As a sign of his love?

He didn’t.

Whoa! could you be any more judgemental? You know next to nothing about my life. I might be happier than you are.

Please forgive me if that’s the way I came across. I didn’t me to hurt you. It is a deep joy to know that a loving God desires my greatest good-eternal happiness…He has the same designs on your life, dear friend. God be with you!

 

[ms_alternative]

why do christians/catholics have the same statistics on divorce depression and suicide?

there is only 1 place you can find happiness. it is not from marriage kids love a house money or even god. you need to sit and think about this then meditate on this. the bible might give you peace and happiness after death but the buddhism will teach you how to be happy here on earth when you are alive. it is also compatible with the bible buddhism is not about god it is a philosophy not a religion.


Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them?

In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

Buddha

 

[RNRobert]

So why did he create malaria, earthquakes, cholera, influenza, floods, polio, smallpox, hurricanes, yellow fever and sudden infant death syndrome? As a sign of his love?

If there is no God and materialism is true, then how can you call those things bad? Perhaps diseases and natural disasters are just the natural order of things, evolution’s way of thinning the herd…

 

[RNRobert]

Yes, but the OP of the thread mentioned that the title of thread was not well-worded and didn’t convey what he wished to discuss. I’m not sure on which page he stated this though.

I think I mentioned it in a couple places, but they were WAYYY back (and this has been a long thread)…

 

[RNRobert]

Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.

I disagree. I like what G.K. Chesterton wrote on the subject:

…Of all conceivable forms of enlightenment, the worst is the worship of the god within. Anyone who knows anybody knows how it would work, anyone who knows anyone from the Higher Thought Centre knows how it does work. That Jones shall worship within turns out ultimately to mean that Jones shall worship Jones. Let Jones worship cats or crocodiles, if he can find them in the street, but not the god within. Christianity came into the world firstly to assert with violence that a man had not only to look inwards, but to look outwards, to behold with astonishment and enthusiasm a divine company and a divine captain. The only fun of being a Christian was that a man was not left alone with the inner light, but definitely recognized an outer light, fair as the sun, clear as the moon, terrible as an army with banners.” (Orthodoxy).

Chesterton also compared (in the same book) Eastern mystics with Christian ones saying that the Eastern ones have their eyes closed and are concentrating on their own interior, but the Christian mystic has his eyes wide open, looking to that which is beyond himself.

 

[RNRobert]

And how should that be accomplished?
While alive you are one of 6bln humans on one out of another several billions planet.
In a hypthetical afterlife you’d be one of 100+ bln humans in a place that’s supposed to be even greater than this universe.
Looks like the significance is decreasing.

Or is it the longer life-span? Existing for an eternity is more meaningful than existing for a short period of time? And not at all boring…

Hm, shifting the meaning of life onto the afterlife only begs the question: What is the meaning of an afterlife?

Wow, what an incredibly limited view of God you have! Your concept of God reminds me of the “Managing Director” view of God that J.B Phillips describes in his book Your God is Too Small (an excellent read, BTW). This attitude pictures God has some bigtime CEO who can’t possibly know everybody. However, as Scripture tells us, He has even numbered the hairs on our heads and knows us intimately.

As for an afterlife, it isn’t merely regular life simply extended through the eons, Rather, we are outside of time and it is just one NOW moment.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

why do christians/catholics have the same statistics on divorce depression and suicide?

In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

Buddha

Buddha, how little you have learned of the true struggle of “self mastery”, if you haven’t learned that the* only Way* to peace, understanding and justice, is in the Redemption of our fallen, broken, disordered desires and NOT through*** self *enlightenment. The poor Buddha, in your estimation could have reincarnated as a cockroach for all you know. What wisdom or happiness could ever come of that? Does a bug strive for the Truth? Until you come to know the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, you cannot possibly presume to preach to those who submit to His **perfect plan, with deepest gratitude and humility. God be with you.

 

[Leela]

Joan of Bark asked a great question that theists are taking great pains to avoid answering:
“So why did he create malaria, earthquakes, cholera, influenza, floods, polio, smallpox, hurricanes, yellow fever and sudden infant death syndrome? As a sign of his love?”

I love to hear someone answer this question.

If there is no God and materialism is true, then how can you call those things bad? Perhaps diseases and natural disasters are just the natural order of things, evolution’s way of thinning the herd…

In a materialist account of nature those are indeed impersonal forces or products of evolution. How do Catholics account for such things? Does it involve Satan or Original Sin or God’s Mysterious Ways. I would think that any of those would work here. The fact that the theists here seem reluctant to give such answers suggests some embarrassment in giving them. Is that the case? That such all-purpose theological explanations are starting to sound too easy even for theists?

You seem to marvel at how someone could find a materialist account of nature to be the best description we have developed so far and still think that, say, cholera is bad. I don’t follow you at all. How could someone think that the prospect of contracting cholera is a good thing? Returning to the thread title, what we see here is one more thing that sometimes makes atheists unhappy–that people think that we must be amoral people who can’t even oppose cholera and sudden infant death syndrome.

Best,
Leela

 

[Leela]

Buddha, how little you have learned of the true struggle of “self mastery”, if you haven’t learned that the* only Way* to peace, understanding and justice, is in the Redemption of our fallen, broken, disordered desires and NOT through*** self *enlightenment. The poor Buddha, in your estimation could have reincarnated as a cockroach for all you know. What wisdom or happiness could ever come of that? Does a bug strive for the Truth? Until you come to know the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, you cannot possibly presume to preach to those who submit to His **perfect plan, with deepest gratitude and humility. God be with you.

Humility?? Are you serious???

 

[RNRobert]

Joan of Bark asked a great question that theists are taking great pains to avoid answering:
“So why did he create malaria, earthquakes, cholera, influenza, floods, polio, smallpox, hurricanes, yellow fever and sudden infant death syndrome? As a sign of his love?”

I love to hear someone answer this question.

In a materialist account of nature those are indeed impersonal forces or products of evolution. How do Catholics account for such things? Does it involve Satan or Original Sin or God’s Mysterious Ways. I would think that any of those would work here. The fact that the theists here seem reluctant to give such answers suggests some embarrassment in giving them. Is that the case? That such all-purpose theological explanations are starting to sound too easy even for theists?

You seem to marvel at how someone could find a materialist account of nature to be the best description we have developed so far and still think that, say, cholera is bad. I don’t follow you at all. How could someone think that the prospect of contracting cholera is a good thing? Returning to the thread title, what we see here is one more thing that sometimes makes atheists unhappy–that people think that we must be amoral people who can’t even oppose cholera and sudden infant death syndrome.

Best,
Leela

My answer would be Original Sin as the cause (a theologian could probably answer it better than I can…
The reason I “marvel” at the materialist’s attitude is that they expect us believe there is no creator, that we are merely the product of a long chain of chemical processes. If that is all we are and nothing more, than how can we call anything good or bad? Diseases and natural disasters are nothing more than more chemical processes. Take that tsunami that hit a few years back. So what if 50,000 people drowned? It was simply a natural process ending some other chemical reactions. So what if that baby’s life was snuffed out by SIDS? It is nothing more than the natural process of culling the human herd of the weak or unfit. There is nothing good or bad in them. It is just something that happens, like the phases of the moon or the changing of the seasons.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Humility?? Are you serious???

I know it seems to you that* theists* are* arrogant* in claiming to know God. I know you’ve been accused of your* arrogance* in* not submitting* to God. One or the other must be mislead, but let’s strive-one and all-to give our very “best”, as you do, dear Leela. God be with you.

 

[ms_alternative]

Buddha, how little you have learned of the true struggle of “self mastery”, if you haven’t learned that the* only Way* to peace, understanding and justice, is in the Redemption of our fallen, broken, disordered desires and NOT through*** self *enlightenment. The poor Buddha, in your estimation could have reincarnated as a cockroach for all you know. What wisdom or happiness could ever come of that? Does a bug strive for the Truth? Until you come to know the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE, you cannot possibly presume to preach to those who submit to His **perfect plan, with deepest gratitude and humility. God be with you.

#1 that was a quote from “The Buddha” my name is not Buddha. #2 Buddhism is not a religion it is a philosophy. it teaches about self control selflessness love peace not about god. #3 if you want happiness here when you are alive Buddha, if you want the chance of happiness when you dye Paul’s christianity or the popes catholic church. but the teachings are 100% compatible

 

[ms_alternative]

I know it seems to you that* theists* are* arrogant* in claiming to know God. I know you’ve been accused of your* arrogance* in* not submitting* to God. One or the other must be mislead, but let’s strive-one and all-to give our very “best”, as you do, dear Leela. God be with you.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha

 

[CWBetts]

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha

I prefer a faith that challenges my own finite understanding, and leads me to explor the infinite. What good is a faith that does not challenge you to become a better person. If Buddah actually said that, then I am glad I am Christian, and not a Buddhist.

 

[ms_alternative]

I prefer a faith that challenges my own finite understanding, and leads me to explor the infinite. What good is a faith that does not challenge you to become a better person. If Buddah actually said that, then I am glad I am Christian, and not a Buddhist.

???Believe anything, just because of where you read it, or who said it, and especially if I have said it, even if it disagrees with your own reason and your own common sense.???
not from Buddha

is this how you believe?

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
Buddha

 

[CWBetts]

???Believe anything, just because of where you read it, or who said it, and especially if I have said it, even if it disagrees with your own reason and your own common sense.???
not from Buddha

is this how you believe?

“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
Buddha

Believe some things, discard others. If it comes form the proper source, believe it, if it violates your common sense. Do disbelieve everything that challenges your current beliefs is not faith at all.