Why are Cain and Abel offering?

[PeterK]

Most activities in the Bible are explained.
The first we hear of Cain and Abel, beyond their births, is they are offering to Yahweh.
What brought this on? Where is the command, in the direct narrative, to offer anything to Yahweh? Did Adam initiate this?
Nevermind what happens between Cain and Abel later, they are both offering to God - why?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Peter

 

[Ignatius]

Most activities in the Bible are explained.
The first we hear of Cain and Abel, beyond their births, is they are offering to Yahweh.
What brought this on? Where is the command, in the direct narrative, to offer anything to Yahweh? Did Adam initiate this?
Nevermind what happens between Cain and Abel later, they are both offering to God - why?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Peter

We offer God the Worship which is His due as our Creator.

Your servant in Christ.

 

[PeterK]

We offer God the Worship which is His due as our Creator.

I agree. But my question is, specifically - where is this rationale for worship given in the Genesis narrative? Who tells or instructs Cain and Abel they need to render to the Creator what is due to him? They seem to just start doing it (?), which is a little incongruent with the rest of the Genesis narrative. Generally, we are given the reason most things occur or don’t occur in the storyline. I wonder if the reason is there in the narrative but I just don’t see it.

So I am asking more of a literature question as opposed to a general theological question on the necessity to worship.

thanks,
Peter

 

[Huiou_Theou]

PeterK,

The text is not explicit, but just as a starter idea –
God had told Adam & Eve that the day they ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree, they would die to death. Although they had not suffered a physical death in one sense of the word, they had no doubt experienced the fall and noticed the difference of how they were before – as compared to how they were after.

Textually we are not given to understand exactly how much is figure vs. how much is eyewitness fact. Some of this is clearly inspired, as Adam was not around to witness his own creation (or Eve’s for that matter, for he was sleeping.)
Setting those problems aside ( They are soluable, but the exact solution is not specified in the text itself ).

Here are a few ideas to explore:
– Adam and Eve knew they were under the sentence of “death”,
– Eve had been given a promise that she would be saved through childbearing, which according to the text, she appears to have expected to be Cain.
– A & E had spoken with God and could tell the children about the promise, which to all intents and purposes did not appear to be fullfilled while Cain was growing up.
– Man is often limited to believing what he can understand in the sense, of something he can control. God, is forever showing his power to be beyond man – and this tension has much to do with our action / belief with respect to God.
– Man had no way to control, appease, or understand God at the time, so he only knew of how his relationship with God had been previously.
– Man could also meditate on “why” Adam failed, and try to figure out “what God wanted”.

Best wishes.
–Andew, υιου θεου

 

[jcrichton]

I agree. But my question is, specifically - where is this rationale for worship given in the Genesis narrative? Who tells or instructs Cain and Abel they need to render to the Creator what is due to him? They seem to just start doing it (?), which is a little incongruent with the rest of the Genesis narrative. Generally, we are given the reason most things occur or don’t occur in the storyline. I wonder if the reason is there in the narrative but I just don’t see it.

So I am asking more of a literature question as opposed to a general theological question on the necessity to worship.

thanks,
Peter

***Hi, Peter!

I know what you mean… it just comes out of the blue…

As Andrew pointed out it could well be inspiration… as I was reading your query that same though came to me but I associated it with Romans 1:19-20:

For what can be known about God is perfectly plain to them, since God has made it plain to them; ever since the creation of the world, the invisible existence of God and his ever lasting power have been clearly seen by the mind’s understanding of created things… ***

It’s conceivable that Yahweh opened their hearts and mind and even spoke to them directly on what would please Him. Both brothers then proceeded to render their offerings according to their own design.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[nablaise]

I have heard some theological explanation that man was created as a ‘priest’. That Adam was in a sense a priest for his family and the rest of ‘visible’ creation. So his boys were supposed to follow. ‘Priest’ means one who offer sacrifice. So in the order of creation, the cosmos was a temple and Adam was the priest. So he offered to God something even though they did not mention it. It must have been a tradition.

In fact offering of fruits of the earth (like bread and wine) and offering bloody sacrifice was already significant. I don’t remember exactly where …but I recently read that the reason God was not pleased with Cain’s offering was because of Cain’s ‘pride’. Apparently he had to offer a lamb (like Abel) first and then fruit of the earth. This is because the lamb symbolized the asking of forgiveness, and the fruits of the earth (probably bread and wine) thanksgiving. Apparently Cain was already prideful and did not acknowledge his sinfulness and therefore did not seek reconciliation with God first before proceding for thanksgiving. He pretended to be rightous.

Yes, apparently the animal sacrifice started with Adam and Eve. It appears that it is God himself who started it. So he though them about it and why. Atonement for sin and…covering of their nakedness (being striped of grace and naked):

Gen3:21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them.

God bless

 

[jcrichton]

I have heard some theological explanation that man was created as a ‘priest’. That Adam was in a sense a priest for his family and the rest of ‘visible’ creation. So his boys were supposed to follow. ‘Priest’ means one who offer sacrifice. So in the order of creation, the cosmos was a temple and Adam was the priest. So he offered to God something even though they did not mention it. It must have been a tradition.

In fact offering of fruits of the earth (like bread and wine) and offering bloody sacrifice was already significant. I don’t remember exactly where …but I recently read that the reason God was not pleased with Cain’s offering was because of Cain’s ‘pride’. Apparently he had to offer a lamb (like Abel) first and then fruit of the earth. This is because the lamb symbolized the asking of forgiveness, and the fruits of the earth (probably bread and wine) thanksgiving. Apparently Cain was already prideful and did not acknowledge his sinfulness and therefore did not seek reconciliation with God first before proceding for thanksgiving. He pretended to be rightous.

Yes, apparently the animal sacrifice started with Adam and Eve. It appears that it is God himself who started it. So he though them about it and why. Atonement for sin and…covering of their nakedness (being striped of grace and naked):

Gen3:21 And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them.

God bless

***Hi, nablaise!

I do not think that the problem lies in Cain’s offering not being of blood sacrifice as much as the type of offering that it was:

Time passed and Cain brought some of the produce of the soil as an offering for Yahweh, while Abel for his part brought the first-born of his flock and and some of their fat as well. Yahweh looked with favour on Abel and his offering. But he did not looked with favour on Cain and his offering, and Cain was very angry and downcast.*** (Genesis 4:3-5)

While Abel offered Yahweh God the best of his flock, Cain’s carefree attitude demonstrated that he had no real concern for pleasing Yahweh as he simply gathered things together to present as an offering.

I liken this passage to Jesus’ observation during the Temple offerings (St. Luke 21:1-4), when an old woman gave everything she had to the Lord (the best); while the wealthy though surpassing her in monetary value did not make as important sacrificial offering (not the best).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[PeterK]

nablaise,
The idea of Adam being a priest and handing on the priestly obligations would account for Cain and Abel bringing offering. But I’m still gazing at a void in the narrative.
Are there any other bible passages later on that explain Adam in a priestly role? And then, back to the main question. Why sacrifice? Where does God tell his priest, Adam or otherwse, “you need to sacrifice to me out of gratitude for all I give you”? Again they just seem to start doing it. Burning crops and killing livestock is some radical gratitude, it’s ones self preservation. Sacrificial worship is huge in the bible. You would think there would be a little more rationale given at the onset. Later on in the genealogy it states that man began to invoke the name of God. But this doesn’t explain why the invoking is self-sacrificial in nature.

Thanks for the response,
Peter

 

[Joe_Kelley]

See also Cain and Abel: a New Look

 

[Huiou_Theou]

PeterK,

In simple terms, there is this thought also – whenever someone is kind to you in your need, there is a recognition “empathy?” that you would like to reciprocate. Love, in only one direction is admiration.

Now, there are false and true ways to reciprocate love – but even without respect to the “beginning”, a philosophical person can realize that there is a God, and that from this God the whole universe came. So to that person, they would like to give thanks – because humanly it is part of who we are to love those who have loved us in some way.

In this sense, the original idea of sacrifice may have been little more than desperation for the hard times when the crops didn’t grow, or other issues (after all, in the sweat of the brow, not with ease did it grow for Adam). These times reminded the characters in the story about the dependence on whomever made the universe.

But then, how can you “feed” God? – and does not scripture say later that God himself laughs at the notion “Sacrifice and Burnt offering you desired not” that Israel could “feed” him?

But whether mistaken in some measure or not – God chose to accept the Sacrifice of Abel, which is surprising. Sometimes people do try loosely thought out things ( My kids tried playing a grilled cheese sandwich in the VCR! ) – After all where is God, in the earth – or in the sky? and if invisible, then what would his invisible food look like? ( hint: burning makes things disappear. )

Anyway, more speculation – about something that is speculative even inside the story.

God bless you.

 

[PeterK]

It never struck me, until lately, how the offering activity of Cain and Abel just appears with no lead in. Not only this, but there does not seem to be any hints given by God in the preceding narrative that man is going to need to make sacrifices to God. Is this a directive of God, an invention of man? It’s just interesting how central ritual sacrifice is for the entire Bible and yet it has no etiological introduction.

A document hypothesis adherent might say this represents a seam, showing where two separate traditions were spliced. I don’t really follow that camp, too much of a scrapbook mentality. More thought went into it than mere collection.

Oh well, I guess it will just have to be a mystery.

Thanks for all your responses,
Peter

 

[Huiou_Theou]

A mystery, yes — but not entirely.

The text was not written down until the Babylonian captivity, and by that time the idea of sacrifice being necessary wasn’t really a question, it was common practice in practically all religions (pagan &c) and variations thereof. The text itself, and the language it uses, is so similar to that in other places in Deuteronomy, Exodus, &c. that I seriously doubt it is written to answer the particular question you have posed, Peter. I think it far more likely that Genesis was written to answer the question who was the first priest to reconcile between God and man, and for what reason – rather than “why” sacrifice.

You’re welcome -&- God bless you and grant you his wisdom.

 

[nablaise]

Not only this, but there does not seem to be any hints given by God in the preceding narrative that man is going to need to make sacrifices to God. Is this a directive of God, an invention of man? It’s just interesting how central ritual sacrifice is for the entire Bible and yet it has no etiological introduction

Hi PeterK,

I think the forbiden tree could be considered as the first sacrifice asked of man. It can be seen as the first dietary law.

The tree is good, but it can not be eaten. The tree is one of the everything that God created and that was good. But it was not to be eaten, so what was it for? may be to be offered to God?

I think the very fact of not eating it, of saving it, was already a sort of offering.

I think it could be from this very tree and the commandments about it which originated to ‘offering’ attitude in man.

Alain

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Not only this, but there does not seem to be any hints given by God in the preceding narrative that man is going to need to make sacrifices to God. Is this a directive of God, an invention of man? It’s just interesting how central ritual sacrifice is for the entire Bible and yet it has no etiological introduction

Hi PeterK,

I think the forbiden tree could be considered as the first sacrifice asked of man. It can be seen as the first dietary law…