Why are Catholic Americans So Passive?

[zertech]

Hey all

So im a 21 year old Catholic, i live in Vermont, the most godless state in the union. There is Alott of anti-catholic/anti-religious sentiment existent in this state and i literally encounter this in a very direct way on a daily basis(more so in the past couple months for some reason).

And heres the question i have for people. Why do so few Catholics speak out against this kind of stuff? and i dont mean speaking out to their fellow Catholics, but speak out against it to the people who are communicating that intolerance and to the world at large.

Lately i have been doing my best to counter this hate and talk to people and communicate Christs message in a way that they understand and frankly i feel like i have a fair amount of success at-least getting them to really think about their actions and there perception.

I think part of the problem is that Catholics so often, JUST DONT SPEAK OUT!

So out of my 200 or so Facebook friends maybe 20 or so of them are devout Catholics and i literally NEVER get any backup from any of them.

I got to admit though this is really stressfull, at the same time i know its making me a better person to constantly be challenged to communicate my faith to those who have never had an oppertunity to really understand it.

I have one theory that kindof applies to some. I went to Franciscan University of Steubenville for a semester a while back and it was one of the first times ive been with a large catholic community that has people my own age and one thing that i noticed is that the community as a whole seemed to have a fear of the outside world. I dont know where it comes from but it seems to me that many people are just strait up afraid of your average secular American!
I went to a small highschool that was very liberal and always ended up having to represent my faith and even just more conservative values. Because they just dont know.

I know it sucks, i know it hurts, frankly i get afraid to log on to Facebook sometimes, but why am i the only one i know of my generation(other than my sister) who is out in the world challenging this stuff.

And frankly, my own faith has been strengthened by it. The thing about living in a catholic community is that it can be easy to come ungrounded, to take your faith for granted. Liberal non-religious folk challenge us with questions we would never think to ask ourselves. so talking with these people really is a good thing.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

For myself, I have found that people are motivated by feelings, not thoughts. So people “don’t care what you know until they know that you care.”

I have run against rabid anti-Catholicism. I’m afraid it’s part of the world forever. I use them for the purposes of gaining criticism I can check out. Every now and then they are right. If you can agree with something they say it might help them hear something you say better. Maybe not, but better strategy than just plain telling them they are wrong.

But also go beyond the religious discussions. For me I can get all I want of that at CAF and on facebook I try to dish it out in small bites when I have something to share. There are a few who pick up on religious things in my friends list.

Alan

 

[zertech]

I know that,
What im curious about is not about my own discussions but why more Catholics dont engage in such discussion.
IT seems a vast majority of Catholics just done bother to defend their faith, but rather just ignore the attacks. I honestly dont understand how people can do this. I literally cannot not defend my faith. I see the immense injustice being done and i have speak out. I cannot do otherwise.
How are other catholics so passive?

 

[Rence]

Hey all

So im a 21 year old Catholic, i live in Vermont, the most godless state in the union. There is Alott of anti-catholic/anti-religious sentiment existent in this state and i literally encounter this in a very direct way on a daily basis(more so in the past couple months for some reason).

And heres the question i have for people. Why do so few Catholics speak out against this kind of stuff? and i dont mean speaking out to their fellow Catholics, but speak out against it to the people who are communicating that intolerance and to the world at large.

Well…what kind of anti-Catholic/anti-religious sentiment are you experiencing that you feel you have to speak out against it? What hate talk are you receiving?

I dont know where it comes from but it seems to me that many people are just strait up afraid of your average secular American!

I can’t speak for everyone, but I view the average secular American as anyone else. It’s part of living in a multi-cultural society. Not everyone is going to share your views, and agree with you. You’re going to encounter many people in your life who disagree with you, and don’t share your views. I can understand you fighting with people on Facebook, because the culture of Facebook seems to thrive in controversy and enjoys fighting about it. But in real life, people around me just don’t get into everyone else’s business so that one feels the need to speak out against it.

 

[Della]

I think you have to take into account that not everyone is called to apologetics, and Facebook is not the whole of any society/community. It’s good you are helping secular people understand their misconceptions about the faith–I encourage you to do so if God is calling you to it and you are having an impact.

However, others may not have the same skills you have nor wish to enter into debate with others. Being strong in one’s faith doesn’t automatically confer any special gift to communicate it well to others, especially those who aren’t open to listening to reason.

We run into the same thing on CAF. Sometimes you click with another person and can be helpful to him and other times nothing you can say makes any difference.

There is a general atmosphere of anti-Catholicism that’s been brewing under the surface of American society for quite some time. People are reluctant to say anything in the public square lest they be accused of being “intolerant” by the “PC police” who cannot tolerant being crossed. It takes real spiritual courage to keep on speaking out under such conditions. Not everyone is gifted with it.

 

[zertech]

Ugh…

Well lots of types of hate.

Your average, things such as
“the catholic church is riddled with hypocrisy”
“Catholocism is a cult for stupid people”
lots of other stuff

Like i see it in face to face interactions alot to. Of course people are going to disagree, but theres a difference between rational disagreements and intolerence and blatant misinformation.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I know that,
What im curious about is not about my own discussions but why more Catholics dont engage in such discussion.
IT seems a vast majority of Catholics just done bother to defend their faith, but rather just ignore the attacks. I honestly dont understand how people can do this. I literally cannot not defend my faith. I see the immense injustice being done and i have speak out. I cannot do otherwise.
How are other catholics so passive?

OK. For one reason, those brought up my age were never taught anything except our outward behavior, as religion. I went to 8 years of Catholic grade school and never heard of a Catechism or Canon law or opened a Bible, etc. We did have “Children’s Bibles” but basically it was not anything like the Bible but told some of the bolder stories, Noah, Jonah, Images of Jesus and small animals smiling at each other …

My best friend, who was Lutheran, was not anti-Catholic but his mom was. She would make us say the Our Father together and cackle with glee when his went on several seconds later.

I chalk it up to people who don’t know about their own faith. They are Catholic because, like me, they are cradle Catholic and never decided to change it. The more I study the more I like.

Alan

 

[Rence]

Ugh…

Well lots of types of hate.

Your average, things such as
“the catholic church is riddled with hypocrisy”
“Catholocism is a cult for stupid people”
lots of other stuff

Like i see it in face to face interactions alot to. Of course people are going to disagree, but theres a difference between rational disagreements and intolerence and blatant misinformation.

So people are walking up to you and saying “the catholic church is riddled with hypocrisy”
“Catholocism is a cult for stupid people” out of the blue? That’s kind of an odd way to start an interaction…do they know you’re Catholic beforehand? Are these people at school? at work?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Ugh…

Well lots of types of hate.

Your average, things such as
“the catholic church is riddled with hypocrisy”
“Catholocism is a cult for stupid people”
lots of other stuff

Like i see it in face to face interactions alot to. Of course people are going to disagree, but theres a difference between rational disagreements and intolerence and blatant misinformation.

Maybe I’d say…

1. Please tell me about how you think the Church is hypocritical. I’ve heard some people think that. I’d like to know why it comes across that way.
2. It’s hospitals for all sorts of broken people. Those who are perfect need not enter.

Alan

 

[zertech]

I think you have to take into account that not everyone is called to apologetics, and Facebook is not the whole of any society/community. It’s good you are helping secular people understand their misconceptions about the faith–I encourage you to do so if God is calling you to it and you are having an impact.

However, others may not have the same skills you have nor wish to enter into debate with others. Being strong in one’s faith doesn’t automatically confer any special gift to communicate it well to others, especially those who aren’t open to listening to reason.

We run into the same thing on CAF. Sometimes you click with another person and can be helpful to him and other times nothing you can say makes any difference.

There is a general atmosphere of anti-Catholicism that’s been brewing under the surface of American society for quite some time. People are reluctant to say anything in the public square lest they be accused of being “intolerant” by the “PC police” who cannot tolerant being crossed. It takes real spiritual courage to keep on speaking out under such conditions. Not everyone is gifted with it.

You got that right that there is anti-catholocism in society.

Frankyl ive discovered over the years that most people have pretty strong anti catholic sentimates if you actually get into a situation where the topic of conversation is something that they disagree with the church on. Like most people out there are friendly and peacefull but if you get on a topic of religion, abortion, contraception, gay mairrage or even just your own personal love of God and your faith than the response usually seems to be anger.

However i think theres a difference between anger and hate. Many people if you get into a debate and they find they cant really defend their pro-choice position(or other position), than their response is anger and saying lots of bad stuff about the catholic church, however there is also is a very clear group of people who are actively anti catholic, and ive been encountering more and more of them lately, ever since rick santuram started running for president and the contraception mandate happened.

I really think we are coming to a point in america where anti religious sentimate is reaching a dangerous peak and it worries me as a catholic because i dont see more people speaking out against it.

People shouldn’t under estimate the impotence of Facebook. For ,my generation it is a pretty significant way of communicating. For example when i start debating or just write one comment communicating my views, that piece of writing is going out to 200+ people at-least. It is a very powerful tool, and the thing is that people are more comfortable communicating their really hate for the catholic church their.

 

[yogicat]

Comfortable people do not jump up and down for change, they just flow with the status quo. You’ve got some comfortable Catholic Facebook friends. They don’t want to fight, they don’t have the energy or the desire for it, and you can’t change that. You can only encourage and be ready for them when they are ready to fight for God.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

zertech,

I like your comments about using technology for God’s benefit. Just imagine here on this planet we can all go to CAF and do works of mercy over the Internet.

Actually I think in facebook I try to do works of mercy both religious and secular mode, then I keep the respect of them all. I try to mix and match. IMO it’s all sacred when a work of mercy is done.

John 14:12
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
How could we do that without technology to preach to all the ends of the earth? One act of mercy on one thread can help many posters, lurkers, and those they know offline, effectively immediately.

Alan

 

[zertech]

So people are walking up to you and saying “the catholic church is riddled with hypocrisy”
“Catholocism is a cult for stupid people” out of the blue? That’s kind of an odd way to start an interaction…do they know you’re Catholic beforehand? Are these people at school? at work?

Well yeah, although usually that statement comes about with other conversation leading up to it.
These thing come about in different ways in different situations with different people. Sometimes its in person, frequently its online but it is always targeted, intentional and destructive.
For whatever reason i always find myself being in a place where people of faith are under represented in profoundly unproductive ways, whether thats online, whether it is in a social situation whether its in a college class. These opinions are everywhere so they show up everywhere.
Probably about half the people who spread these intolerant messages know im catholic.

 

[Rence]

Well yeah, although usually that statement comes about with other conversation leading up to it.
These thing come about in different ways in different situations with different people. Sometimes its in person, frequently its online but it is always targeted, intentional and destructive.
For whatever reason i always find myself being in a place where people of faith are under represented in profoundly unproductive ways, whether thats online, whether it is in a social situation whether its in a college class. These opinions are everywhere so they show up everywhere.
Probably about half the people who spread these intolerant messages know im catholic.

I’ve never had anyone say those things to me out of the blue…or at all actually. That’s just plain weird…

 

[zertech]

zertech,

I like your comments about using technology for God’s benefit. Just imagine here on this planet we can all go to CAF and do works of mercy over the Internet.

Actually I think in facebook I try to do works of mercy both religious and secular mode, then I keep the respect of them all. I try to mix and match. IMO it’s all sacred when a work of mercy is done.

John 14:12
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.
How could we do that without technology to preach to all the ends of the earth? One act of mercy on one thread can help many posters, lurkers, and those they know offline.

Alan

As for how i communicate with people though through the internet, christianity is an awesome thing. When you really look at it without getting into deep theological points catholocism communicates some very basic and very impactfull messages that everyone can understand and apreciate. I try to focus on communicating these messages generally. I also try to emphasize the importence of respecting people’s views. I really do think that if Americans dont start learning how to cross these ideological barriers and start communicating respectfully than America will self destruct. However more than just communicating respectfully we need to really try to understand each other, understand why people think the way they think. Someone can understand the basic logical flow of a pro-choice argument but it is incredibly more difficult to understand why they think that, and once you understand that whole new levels of positive discussion can occur.

As christians i really think we need to start working on this. We are all born to evangelize the world in some way(not necessarily convert people), however that cant be done when so many people have closed their hearts. So far i have had the bets luck getting other people to open up their hearts by opening up my own and just communicating very honestly an personally about my own understanding of catholocism. although i do this in a way that is aimed towards their own understanding of the world.

As a side note though on how awesome technology is:
The human brain was practically built for the internet. Ive done research projects on the way information and thoughts are propgated between people and how people consume this information at incredible speeds.
Before the internet the exchange of information and culture was limited by geography and access. this limitation has huge affects on the way culture grows and forms. The internet virtually removes all limitations on the exchange of this information, and all the information is custom fit for the way the human mind works. Its an incredible thing. Memolgy is an incredibly interesting field even though its very under developed.

 

[kch86]

So out of my 200 or so Facebook friends maybe 20 or so of them are devout Catholics and i literally NEVER get any backup from any of them.

As for me, out of roughly the same number of Facebook friends, maybe 1 or 2 are devout Catholics and maybe 2 or 3 are devout Protestants. And you thought Vermont was godless!

And frankly, my own faith has been strengthened by it. The thing about living in a catholic community is that it can be easy to come ungrounded, to take your faith for granted. Liberal non-religious folk challenge us with questions we would never think to ask ourselves. so talking with these people really is a good thing.

That’s certainly true.

As for your original question, “Why are Catholics so passive?” I don’t quite know. You tell me.

 

[zertech]

As for me, out of roughly the same number of Facebook friends, maybe 1 or 2 are devout Catholics and maybe 2 or 3 are devout Protestants. And you thought Vermont was godless!

That’s certainly true.

As for your original question, “Why are Catholics so passive?” I don’t quite know. You tell me.

lol, well out of my 15-20 just about all of them are from either maryland or i met at franciscan university. I know 3 catholics from VT. I met a protestant once although i dont think i ended up being Facebook friends with him.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I think they are passive because they only know about the “first half” of life; the law of sin and death.

They never experienced movement into the second half, the law of Jesus Christ. If they had, it’s all they want to talk about almost all the time. At least for a newby.

Alan

 

[Cat]

I don’t know anything about Facebook.

But I know about real-life.

In real-life, one reason why Catholics are “passive” is that they don’t want to lose their jobs.

In many companies, “creating a hostile work environment” is seen as harrassment, which is grounds for termination.

The employee may not have been deliberately attempting to harass someone. But if someone perceives them as “prosletyzing,” or “demonstrating intolerance towards other religions,” that perception is often accepted as an act of harassment.

A company does not want to take any chances, because if a good lawyer gets hold of it, the entire company can suffer because of the act of one employee. Rather than face that possibility, many companies will simply terminate the employee in question.

It’s a hard thing to be without a job these days.

Another reason why Catholics seem passive is that in real-life, they have to find a way to get along with someone that they live near or work with. Facebook conflict isn’t so bad–just log out. But in real life, constant conflict is hard to live with day in and day out, year in , year out. It wears a body and soul down and can be discouraging to faith.

So many people decide to just live in peace and not argue or debate. This really isn’t such a bad strategy for Christians, as there is much to be said for living in peace and demonstrating your faith not through words, but through good works and a loving attitude.

 

[Robertanthony]

I don’t know anything about Facebook.

But I know about real-life.

In real-life, one reason why Catholics are “passive” is that they don’t want to lose their jobs.

In many companies, “creating a hostile work environment” is seen as harrassment, which is grounds for termination.

The employee may not have been deliberately attempting to harass someone. But if someone perceives them as “prosletyzing,” or “demonstrating intolerance towards other religions,” that perception is often accepted as an act of harassment.

A company does not want to take any chances, because if a good lawyer gets hold of it, the entire company can suffer because of the act of one employee. Rather than face that possibility, many companies will simply terminate the employee in question.

It’s a hard thing to be without a job these days.

Another reason why Catholics seem passive is that in real-life, they have to find a way to get along with someone that they live near or work with. Facebook conflict isn’t so bad–just log out. But in real life, constant conflict is hard to live with day in and day out, year in , year out. It wears a body and soul down and can be discouraging to faith.

So many people decide to just live in peace and not argue or debate. This really isn’t such a bad strategy for Christians, as there is much to be said for living in peace and demonstrating your faith not through words, but through good works and a loving attitude.

At my job, if I left the table where people gossip or cuss, I’d have nowhere to sit. Try saying to a bunch of non-believers in 2012 that “I walked away because you took the Lord’s name in vain”, they’ll probably die laughing. Whoever orchestrated this ostracization is a mastermind, Catholics are cornered and silenced. I have my own issues with rejection and just the struggle to want to carry on living, God gave me a considerable burden from day 1 and so being the butt of the joke because everyone calls me holier-than-thou or not so nice variations of that word will not happen . In many circles, being a Catholic is like walking around with a t-shirt that says “spit on me”. The clergy child abuse scandal and the way particular cases have been badly handled is what made us lose the battle, it’s now seen generally as one big, laughable, hypocrite joke.