Why are Catholics often this way?

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When I was 10 years old I was beaten by 4 guys because I was a Notre Dame fan. i guess i hould have majored in sports.
I am actually glad that incident happened, it enabled me to learn about other religions so as not to be IGNORANT. My children also know about other religions, including how they differ from our own and why we believe what we believe.

I’ll say one thing: my kids will never be so IGNORANT as to beat up someone else’s child because of religious hate and bigotry.
 
I am actually glad that incident happened, it enabled me to learn about other religions so as not to be IGNORANT. My children also know about other religions, including how they differ from our own and why we believe what we believe.

I’ll say one thing: my kids will never be so IGNORANT as to beat up someone else’s child because of religious hate and bigotry.
Well I raised my kids to be Notre Dame fans. Does that count?
 
It seems that no matter what thread I post in, the subject of my own religious faith (and wondering why I have not become a Catholic) comes up–even when the thread has no relation to that.

So I suppose I will say something now, and hopefully it won’t need repeating.

My mother’s ancestors were Jews in Spain who were forced to convert to Catholicism under threat of death. Most converted, but continued to practice Judaism in secret.

I would venture to say that I would go one step further than they did. I would not convert to Catholicism (or ANY other nonJewish religion), even if someone were threatening my life.

Being Jewish, and worshipping Hashem, the ONLY true God, means more to me than even my own life.

Have I made myself very clear?

One other thing I’d like to add: I have tried VERY hard not to offend any Catholics or other Christians here with what I say. Yet there are those here who think nothing of calling my religion “false”, “a social club”, “abolished when Jesus came” and other such gutter talk. I have not done that to Catholicism, though with what I know of the history of the Catholic church, I would certainly have much ammunition to do that.

Your church teaches you to respect those of other faiths, and to try to understand them. I guess that has not trickled down to the laity just yet.
really?
 
It seems that no matter what thread I post in, the subject of my own religious faith (and wondering why I have not become a Catholic) comes up–even when the thread has no relation to that.

So I suppose I will say something now, and hopefully it won’t need repeating.

My mother’s ancestors were Jews in Spain who were forced to convert to Catholicism under threat of death. Most converted, but continued to practice Judaism in secret.

I would venture to say that I would go one step further than they did. I would not convert to Catholicism (or ANY other nonJewish religion), even if someone were threatening my life.

Being Jewish, and worshipping Hashem, the ONLY true God, means more to me than even my own life.

Have I made myself very clear?

One other thing I’d like to add: I have tried VERY hard not to offend any Catholics or other Christians here with what I say. Yet there are those here who think nothing of calling my religion “false”, “a social club”, “abolished when Jesus came” and other such gutter talk. I have not done that to Catholicism, though with what I know of the history of the Catholic church, I would certainly have much ammunition to do that.

Your church teaches you to respect those of other faiths, and to try to understand them. I guess that has not trickled down to the laity just yet.
Well with the Church being as large as it is theres is bound to be a whole range of attitudes etc.

I have to say that I found the story of your family history quite interesting and unique. I knew that forced conversions occured, but never really considered how the families would choose to cope with the situation.
I would imagine it developed into a rather interesting Hybrid. Has any of this been recorded? If not I would think it would be worth recording.
In a way it kind of makes me think of the Amish. I know that is probably a poor comparison, but the “seperation” and unique customs would make for an interesting study.

Peace
James
 
Well with the Church being as large as it is theres is bound to be a whole range of attitudes etc.

I have to say that I found the story of your family history quite interesting and unique. I knew that forced conversions occured, but never really considered how the families would choose to cope with the situation.
I would imagine it developed into a rather interesting Hybrid. Has any of this been recorded? If not I would think it would be worth recording.
In a way it kind of makes me think of the Amish. I know that is probably a poor comparison, but the “seperation” and unique customs would make for an interesting study.

Peace
James
Actually, it did, for many conversos, turn into a kind of hybrid thing. We discuss this a lot on the Anusim forum I belong to (anusim is the Hebrew word for Jews forced to become Catholic…it means ‘those who were forced’).

I remember my Italian (originally Spanish) “Catholic” grandmother, telling me that pork was ‘dirty’ and that we should not eat it. She also would light two candles on Friday evenings before dinner, saying “its an old family tradition”.

I grew up very confused, because my mother had converted to Judaism during WW2, a few years before she met/married my (born) Jewish father. When I saw my Catholic grandmother carrying out rituals I knew were Jewish, I just figured Jews and Italians were the same people (!) It wasn’t until many years later that I found out why my grandmother was like that.

I have a cousin who actually traveled to Spain, Italy and Venezuela (where our ancestors were/are) and who did much of the genealogical research. He was shocked to find out he was actually of Jewish ancestry…so much so he went to his priest and asked, “What am I then, Jewish or Catholic?” His priest told him that he is whatever he feels God leading him to be, which I thought was a pretty amazing thing for a priest to say!

One thing Joe (my cousin) found out too, was the name of one of our ancestors who was on the list of Jews expelled from Spain in 1492. It gave me the chills to see my grandmother’s maiden name on that list!

There are many customs that conversos retained, but over the course of 500 years, while they still practiced the customs, they often lost all memory of WHY they did them (such as, in my grandmother’s case, the candle lighting on Friday nights, the abstention from pork, and the fear of crucifixes.)

You see, conversos often retained a dread of crucifixes, becasue the Inquisitors would go in procession (with a crucifix leading the way) to the home of a suspected marrano, to arrest them and bring them up on charges of “judaizing”. So the crucifix came to be associated in their minds with death and evil. My grandmother used to say to me, “If you see a crucifix, its bad luck, it means someone is going to die”.

Yet she was externally a Catholic, buried a Catholic and all. So for people with our ancestry, Jewish and Catholic customs often became mixed, and for many of them, it felt normal.

This is, perhaps, why I had no problem at all, when my mother died, in calling both a rabbi and a priest, each giving her the final rites of their respective faiths. On some level, I felt that was what she would have wanted, as crazy as it might sound to outsiders. It felt normal because of my family history, I suppose!

For more info on anusim, see: anusimcenter.org/index.html
 
I don’t mind; if anything it further drives me from even the remotest consideration of joining the Catholic church.

Ah, the Jewish God works in mysterious ways! 😉
From reading your posts it appears that very little happens in your life that does not drive you from the remotest consideration of joining the Catholic Church.

So-are you a Notre Dame fan?
 
I don’t mind; if anything it further drives me from even the remotest consideration of joining the Catholic church.

Ah, the Jewish God works in mysterious ways! 😉
Dear HashemEchad, I love my faith so much and when someone in my faith treats another person of faith with such obvious disdain I have to say something. Our God is a God of Love. I see love in your messages and I know we worship the same God. I hated Christianity for 40 years and it was God’s Grace that brought me back 3 years ago. I did not ask for Grace. I realized then that I did not hate Christianity all those years; I actually hated Christians.
I have learned since my return that Catholics give Catholicism a bad name. This has been obvious to me since I decided to look at this website.
God Bless You.
 
Dear HashemEchad, I love my faith so much and when someone in my faith treats another person of faith with such obvious disdain I have to say something. Our God is a God of Love. I see love in your messages and I know we worship the same God. I hated Christianity for 40 years and it was God’s Grace that brought me back 3 years ago. I did not ask for Grace. I realized then that I did not hate Christianity all those years; I actually hated Christians.
I have learned since my return that Catholics give Catholicism a bad name. This has been obvious to me since I decided to look at this website.
God Bless You.
You’re right…in my ecumenical work I’ve met many truly decent, humble, spiritual Catholics.

And then…there are The Others…
 
You’re right…in my ecumenical work I’ve met many truly decent, humble, spiritual Catholics.

And then…there are The Others…
How do you reconcile that with this?

"Your church teaches you to respect those of other faiths, and to try to understand them. I guess that has not trickled down to the laity just yet."
 
How do you reconcile that with this?

"Your church teaches you to respect those of other faiths, and to try to understand them. I guess that has not trickled down to the laity just yet."
That there are good and bad in all religions, including the Catholic religion?

Just as there are humble, deeply spiritual, caring Catholics, there are also the “Deus vult” types, as well as what a former Catholic friend of mine calls the “sit, stand and kneel” Catholics.
 
That there are good and bad in all religions, including the Catholic religion?

Just as there are humble, deeply spiritual, caring Catholics, there are also the “Deus vult” types, as well as what a former Catholic friend of mine calls the “sit, stand and kneel” Catholics.
Its intersting that in this thread the only one who has made broad assertions about anothers religion is you.
 
Sorry, I don’t think you can blame Vatican II for this.

I think most churchs’ religious education departments need a real evaluation of what they are doing.

Pre-Vatican II - one was simply taught to memorize lines from the Baltimore Catichism (sp?) and it was never explained what any of it meant. Immediately after Vatican II, students were simply taught warm, fuzzy stuff. Talked to result Catholic high school graduate who said he learned nothing in religion class because it was so mind-deadingly boring that he couldn’t pay attention.

I honestly wish the national bishops’ council would gather a group together and come up with a good program which would help inspire young Catholics to learn about their Faith.

Actually, I find most Catholics who know much about their Faith have done through independent study.
Yes, I am an independent learner of the Catholic Faith although I had over sixteen years of Catholic education. And do I remember ye olde Baltimore Catechism. All we did was memorize and believe. 🙂 Peace.
 
Back to topic:
When I was trying to motivate adult (40-60) Sunday School (Southern Baptists) students, I struggled from week to week. Sometimes the subject matter in the lesson was easier to lecture on, others were better for a discussion. others were better for a game. Unfortunately, the lessons didn’t have “ways to teach” they just had additional information to add during the lesson.

Teaching some students is easier. They show interest and want to be there. A lot unfortunately, are just there to keep peace in the family. I did try to be a good teacher, I tried to make the subject matter interesting and other sources and instruct. It was alot of work. I usually spent 1.5-2.0 hours getting ready for a 45 minute class. Eventually, I got burned out after 7 years. Some of it had to do with physical exhaustion (too many things on my plate). And after I quit, nobody even bothered to call, either the Sunday School Director, Pastor , or my students. Was I disappointed, yeah I was. I tried hard and nobody gave a hoot. So that was the end of my relationship with the Baptist Church.

So I am better off now that I am Catholic. I have a Magesterium that does all the planning of daily lesson. I have a liturgical calendar. I have daily saints. If I try hard, I can usually find a Mass to go to every day. I have more order and structure and resources. I have Priests that know their faith.

I guess I would sum it up in this: There are a tremendous amount of resources out there for someone that wants to make an effort to learn more about the Catholic faith. If someone doesn’t take advantage of them, it is not the Church’s fault. Is every parish good at teaching, of course not. But for me, the structure of each day just in the daily readings is good enough if you try to be a decent student.
 
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