Why are Catholics Pagans?

[Wormwood]

jimmy:

Why does it matter what Christmas is?

First, it is rude to answer a question with a question
Secondly, because I wanted to know.

Does it hurt anyone that it occurs after the winter solstace? Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ, if you don’t want to celebrate it, then don’t, but we will continue

It seems to be a popular trend, that when people do not know how to properly or intelligently address a question, they will instead attack the question itself. Does it hurt…? Who’s to say?
As for the last line…it was never my intention to steal christmas…go ahead, celibrate. And thanks for giving me permission not to observe…and for answering all my questions so astutely

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Ok seriously, what is with the pagan holidays? Is this a case of “when in Rome…” ? The two holidays I am specifically refering to are easter and christmas. Christmas happens right after the pagan celebration of the winter solstice. The holiday was happening anyway so let’s make it christian? Why not stick with hannukah (sorry i butchered the spelling) like Jesus himself would have practiced? And that brings me to easter. Christian equivelant of the passover holiday correct? (speaking from a time of year perspective) Then why have easter resemble the spring equinox festivals of the pagans. The pagans used such symbols as eggs and rabbits for their fertility rituals regaurding the spring equinox…those symbols sound familiar…Is this another case of early christians adapting to their pagan surroundings or do you guys just like to confuse children with stories of ressurections and large rabbits hiding painted eggs?

If Christmas is “pagan” then does that mean that Chanukah is pagan as well? It falls near Christmas.

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

Wormwood:

…I don’t know if it is all the talk about fertility and maypoles, but careful. Your advances and inuendos are unwelcome I assure you…

Again, what advances and inuendos?

 

[Hildebrand]

What is wrong with taking local non-Catholic customs and turning them into ways to worship the one true God? It is very effective in getting whole cultures and civilizations to covert to Christ.

Are these anti-Catholics suggesting while converting a new cultures to Christ, we tell them everything they have done is wrong and bad and they need to start their culture from scratch and will be forced to adopt an alien culture that would cause their society major social upheaval? Come on and use some common sense!

If a Native American tribe is converting to Christianity, do you get rid of their culture and replace it with a European Christian one, or do you respect their culture and Christianize it?

 

[LSK]

…yeah…coincidence…that’s it…

Sarcasm is not a good argument. All it shows is your lack of respect and ability to listen when you ask a question.

Yeah, completely christian with irrelevant pagan symbols in-tact and all.

We do not use bunnies, eggs or chocolate to celebrate the liturgy of the Risen Lord.

Depends on the circumstance actually. I use the standard C.E. calendar for taxes and government paperwork, but my business call are mostly to China, so I use their calendar system when I deal with them, and in all personal affairs I prefer the Mayan calendar

Keeping information about yourself secret and then using it to ‘refute’ an argument is another example of poor rhetorical skills. We have enough people on this forum who do that all ready (Catholic and Non-Catholic).

At times perhaps…but I never claimed NOT to be a pagan.

Whether or not you are a pagan has nothing to do with your question. We celebrate the birth of Our Lord. We celebrate the passion, death and resurection of Our Lord.

Yeah you go first…I’ll meet you there

Again, using sarcasm is an example of poor rhetorical skills.

I don’t know if it is all the talk about fertility and maypoles, but careful. Your advances and inuendos are unwelcome I assure you.

Perhaps we all need to lose the tone of attacking each other currently in use on this thread.

Actually yes a little. I was just curious what the reasoning was behind keeping these traditions.

If curiousity is truly the underlying motive for asking this question, you have been refered to some excellent resources. You have also been given some excellent answers. Catholics are not pagans. We, as part of the Universal Church, have incorporated different cultures over the 2 thousand year history of our existence as means of explaining the ultimate mystery of The Incarnate Word. We do not worship chocolate, bunnies, eggs, maypoles, rocks, trees, birds, or statues. If you have further questions regarding this you should read the Catechism of the Church and then ask question. It is an easy read for someone of your obvious intelligence (and I mean that as a sincere compliment - I am not being sarcastic).

The festival of Ishtar, a symbol of fertility as rabbits can reproduce…well…like rabbits

I wish you could use that same common sense to read. Who said anything about worshiping trees or eggs? Even the pagans didn’t do that…that is something you guys came up with just now. Actually read what is written instead of just thinking of how you want to reply. Thanks all.

Actually some pagans DO worship trees and eggs - just as some people who refer to themselves as Christians think it is ok to call for the assasination of a government official on television. Unfortunately, the biggest problem most organized religions have - including those groups who refer to themselves as Pagans, Druids, Wicca, or Campfire Girls is that they are full of PEOPLE.

BTW - the reference to Campfire Girls was a joke. I was a Campfire Girl and stayed all the way up to receive the WOHELO Medallian.
wooopppeeee:dancing:

 

[LSK]

Wormwood:

jimmy:

First, it is rude to answer a question with a question
Secondly, because I wanted to know.

It seems to be a popular trend, that when people do not know how to properly or intelligently address a question, they will instead attack the question itself. Does it hurt…? Who’s to say?
As for the last line…it was never my intention to steal christmas…go ahead, celibrate. And thanks for giving me permission not to observe…and for answering all my questions so astutely

Re-read your posts - you are being extremely rude and sarcastic - if I remember correctly the root of the word sarcasm means to tear the flesh. If that is your intention, congratulations. You are doing a good job. If, however, you are truly interested in our answers, you have been directed to some excellent resources and given truthful answers.
We are not pagans. There is nothing wrong with using existing signs and symbols of a culture to help explain the Truth to a people. This is what was done to spread the True Faith. St. Patrick used a clover to explain the Trinity. It is now a ‘Christian Symbol’ to an entire culture of people. Nothin’ wrong with that - and there is nothing wrong with having an Easter Egg Hunt AND celebrating the Miracle of Redemption. There are some Catholics who do not approve of that and do not participate in that type of ritual. It has NOTHING to do with the Church.

 

[JimG]

I’m not a good enough of a historian to be sure, but I have read somewhere that the feast of Christmas (“Christ’s Mass”) was deliberately selected to coincide with the feast of the winter solstice. Everybody had a celebration at that time of year, regardless of their religion, pagan god or otherwise. If they were going to celebrate anyway, why not have a Christian reason to celebrate? Makes good sense to me; I see nothing at all wrong with it.

Oh, and a happy Fria’s Day tomorrow, and everybody have a good Saturn’s Day. It’s hard to Christianize those names.

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

LSK:

Perhaps we all need to lose the tone of attacking each other currently in use on this thread.

As this seems to be a response from someone, to a response from the OP, to a response from myself, to the original post, then perhaps I need to explain my first response better:

wormwood:

Joseph Bilodeau (AKA Screwtape for purposes of this post:

…If so, then welcome to the company of the pagans. I look forward with great anticipation to the day, not far from now, to be sure, when you may join all the rest of your pagan brothers and sisters, Catholic and otherwise, in our Father’s house…

Yeah you go first…I’ll meet you there.

My post was not intended to be taken in an attacking tone. It was written in immitation of C.S. Lewis’ classic opus, The Screwtape Letters. In this book, the protagonist (or would he be more correctly defined as an antihero?), Screwtape, is a senior devil writing letters of advice to his nephew, Wormwood, about how to tempt a human. The reference to “our Father’s house”, and other elements in the post are direct immitations of Lewis’ prose.

Some other participants on this thread have apparently read Screwtape, as their responses have indicated, but the OP apparently has not, (which piques my curiousity as to why, then, he chose this user name?), and as perhaps has not the later poster, and perhaps others, who apparently saw an attacking tone in my post. This may also explain this:

wormwood:

Joseph Bilodeau (AKA Screwtape for purposes of this post:

…Your affectionate uncle,

Screwtape.

I don’t know if it is all the talk about fertility and maypoles, but careful. Your advances and inuendos are unwelcome I assure you.

Had the OP read Screwtape, he would have recognized that this was the way Screwtape closed nearly all his letters to Wormwood in the book, and would not be imagining advances and inuendos where none exist.

 

[severinus]

Wormwood:

I think it’s funny how many people are getting indignant and condescending…the title was a JOKE…the question was somewhat real. Just curious a) why they took already existing holidays b) why they failed to get rid of the old pagan symbolism and c) why not explain where all the weird associations that seem unrelated come from? Mostly I gather that it was a power play to sway the pagans or wipe their holidays out. Seems logical I guess. When the symbolism comes up, people have no good answers so they make up a new argument about worshiping eggs and such. And as for the explainations, I heard that no one was confused by it…but I have yet to hear a positive service those symbols provide, accept that they appeal to children.

Yeah, actually the magnitude is what I wanted to convey…it seems like adding “extras” to a holiday which would logically be your most sacred, would be taking away from the sacrifice. Why muck up the meaning of that day with this other junk?

Let me stop you right there…just one thought for you, and I mean no insult…but you say “false dichotomy” more than any person on earth! I think you say that to me at least once a thread

It was a joke, I wanted to see how many people would actually address the question.

It wasn’t that clear to me. The title aside, I just asked why the traditions were assimilated instead of bypassed (i.e. another date/time of year) and what, if anything, the pagan symbols offered for your dedication of the holiday.

Hmm, interesting perspective. Makes sense except it doesn’t explain why people protesting the pagans would take on the same symbols.

Well the source I stated a little later was websters unabridges for the linguistics and for the knowledge of the festival of Ishtar and other pagan festivals and symbols try reading translations of: H. Frankfort’s Cylinder seal (1939) Gods and myths on sargonic seals (1934) Kingship and the gods (1948) H.G. Guterbock’s the deeds of suppilulima (1956)
Die historishe tradition bei babylonier und hethitern (1934) and Hittite Mythology(1961). I have no idea who or what “Jack Chick” is…is that a person, a book, a movie?

1. Webster’s Unabridged cites an etymology from ‘east’, with a note explaining that the origin from Eostre is a possibility. The OED gives Eostre as the origin, following Bede’s De tempore rationum.
2. The only sites on the web that claim definitively that Easter derives from Ishtar are the usual suspects: anti-Catholic fundies and some pagan/astrology sites.
3. You are apparently the only person on Earth never to have seen a Jack Chick tract. There is a thread devoted to this deeply troubled man. He promotes the Easter/Ishtar theory on his website:
   www.chick.com.
   Have you been saved?
4. I know you are having a lot of fun with this stuff, but Catholics have had to deal with Easter/Ishtar for some time, due to fundies with lousy educations in history and no linguistic training whatsoever. The theory (and I use the term very loosely) itself is ridiculous, as Easter is a purely English term, with other languages using some form of ‘Passover.’ One would have to believe that Ishtar leapfrogged across Europe to the British Isles. Every time some poorly educated person with an agenda puts forth this nonsense, some even more poorly educated person believes it. If you have issues with Catholicism, that’s fine; but using historical/linguistic refuse like Easter/Ishtar shows either astounding credulity or insincerity.

It’s similar to the translation of Chernobyl as Wormwood. While I have no doubt that some sort of meltdown is common to both, I would not promote the etymology.

 

[mlchance]

JimG:

I’m not a good enough of a historian to be sure, but I have read somewhere that the feast of Christmas (“Christ’s Mass”) was deliberately selected to coincide with the feast of the winter solstice.

Lots of folks have read that, but, again, there is no evidence for it. It falls into the category of popular myth moreso than historical fact.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[LSK]

I think it’s funny how many people are getting indignant and condescending…the title was a JOKE…

You may find this difficult to believe, but it is very difficult to ‘hear’ the inflection of your voice - your title could have been funnier and not so mean spirited.

the question was somewhat real. Just curious a) why they took already existing holidays b) why they failed to get rid of the old pagan symbolism and c) why not explain where all the weird associations that seem unrelated come from?

You have been given some very good answers and then you attacked OUR tone.

Mostly I gather that it was a power play to sway the pagans or wipe their holidays out.

Or a teaching tool.

Seems logical I guess. When the symbolism comes up, people have no good answers so they make up a new argument about worshiping eggs and such.

Catholic Christians have NEVER claimed to worship eggs.

And as for the explainations, I heard that no one was confused by it…but I have yet to hear a positive service those symbols provide, accept that they appeal to children.

Which is why those symbols are not used in the Catholic liturgy.

Yeah, actually the magnitude is what I wanted to convey…it seems like adding “extras” to a holiday which would logically be your most sacred, would be taking away from the sacrifice. Why muck up the meaning of that day with this other junk?

We didn’t. The other junk is used by the secular world and is not associated with Catholic teaching or liturgy.

Let me stop you right there…just one thought for you, and I mean no insult…but you say “false dichotomy” more than any person on earth! I think you say that to me at least once a thread

Because you use a false dichotomy.

It was a joke, I wanted to see how many people would actually address the question.

Again, if it was a joke it was a poor one and you need to take responsibility for your poor joking skills. We cannot read your tone of voice.

It wasn’t that clear to me.

I hope it is clear now.

The title aside, I just asked why the traditions were assimilated instead of bypassed (i.e. another date/time of year) and what, if anything, the pagan symbols offered for your dedication of the holiday.

You did not ‘just’ aks this - but you were given the information you requested. You simply ignored it and argued that our reasons were not good enough for you.

Well the source I stated a little later was websters unabridges for the linguistics and for the knowledge of the festival of Ishtar and other pagan festivals and symbols try reading translations of: H. Frankfort’s Cylinder seal (1939) Gods and myths on sargonic seals (1934) Kingship and the gods (1948) H.G. Guterbock’s the deeds of suppilulima (1956)
Die historishe tradition bei babylonier und hethitern (1934) and Hittite Mythology(1961). I have no idea who or what “Jack Chick” is…is that a person, a book, a movie?

Interesting references.

 

[JimG]

mlchance:

Lots of folks have read that, but, again, there is no evidence for it. It falls into the category of popular myth moreso than historical fact.

– Mark L. Chance.

Like Michaelmas Day and Candlemas Day?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

FCEGM:

Images and symbols - even dates - which originally came from paganism but are now submitted to the One True God, sometimes do have a place within Christian tradition (small “t”). And that has always been the case, since all things belong to Him and may be submitted to Him.

I doubt if we know anyone who, in placing a Christmas tree in his living room, does this because he intends to worship pagan Germanic gods or celebrate the winter solstice. The true now has a true meaning, not a false one: symbolizing Christmas, the celebration of the Nativity of the Savior.

If one chooses to question the adoption of such symbols (or the very celebration of Christmas itself - especially on Dec. 25) because of their pagan origination, then one should likewise question the Hebrew festivals we see recorded in Scripture. Christmas is no more or less “pagan” than the Jewish celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles which coincided with a Canaanite festival celebrating the grape harvest. Just as the Hebrews made their own and conformed to the honor of the One True God what were previously pagan commemorations, it was (is) entirely appropriate for the Church to reclaim, e.g., a date in time which had been perverted to the glory of a pagan deity and appropriate it for the glory of the true Unconquered Son.

Time itself is a creature of God and it along with all creation can be - and often is - distorted and misused by man. But we see in Scripture, such as in the Canticle of Daniel (Dn. 3:35-88), that all creation is to praise the Lord, even the sun and moon which regulate our days and hours. The fact that some have worshiped these creatures rather than their Creator, does not mean that they cannot be redeemed and put to the use for which they were created - ultimately to the glory of God.

In Ephesians 1:10 we read: “. . .to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth,” (RSV). Here and elsewhere in Scripture we see that all of creation is to be gathered into submission to Christ - ALL of creation. The Church is the means by which this gathering-in is accomplished, redeeming and sanctifying in Christ that which has been corrupted - including time, places, and things.

The difficulty some have with the celebration of the Nativity of Our Lord, or with some of the human traditions that have been incorporated into the celebration, seems to come from the idea that everything having to do with man’s relationship to God has to have a scriptural warrant (for the Fundamentalist Protestants especially - and why do so many atheists sound just like the most vehement Fundamentalist? ), or easily connected to either Scripture or Sacred Tradition (for us Catholics ).

If we were to apply this sense of purity to Scripture itself we would have to exclude much of what we see of the religious practices of the Hebrew people. Certainly they were divinely guided to offer to God the worship He desired from the, but if we make even the most cursory comparison to the religious practices of their neighbors - especially the Egyptians and then the Canaanites - we find great similarities and even appropriations: circumcision, festivals, sacrificial rituals and libations hymns (psalms), proverbs (Prov. 22:17-24:22 was modeled after the Egyptians “The Instruction of Amenehope”, 10000-600 B.C.). Pagan origins? Yes. Yet God used it all to fashion a people for Himself, using the “material at hand” and giving it His divine blessing and transforming it to His purposes.

So the wisdom of the Church in incorporating some cultural (pagan) traditions into the celebration of Christmas should be seen as a part of the submission of all things to Christ. We just have to make sure that we employ these things with Christ in mind - submitting our own minds to Him.

An excellent answer there ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

aaronjmagnan:

Imperialism is such a harsh word

Given the title and contents of this book, it has a certain appropriateness -​

• Lançon, Bertrand - Rome in Late Antiquity: AD 313-604 (translated by Antonia Neville)

It has a good deal on the process of the Christianisation of Rome - as one would expect; including a section on the Christianisation of time, and of space. ##

The Catholic Church allows for the practice of customs stemming from other cultures as long as they do not come into direct contradiction to the teachings of the Church.

That is the church stance behind much of this via the Catechism.

I know, Wormwood, you find it tedious to look through there. It’s in there, and if you really want I’ll find it. But you may want to get some scholarly credit and read.

In the case of them being considered “Pagan,” this is not true because Catholics do not believe God to be in those items, such as the tree, etc. And the tree isn’t Catholic, it’s a custom that has lost its religious import.

God bless.

Aaron

 

[Zooey]

(Ahem! Cough, cough!!) I think that the C S Lewis reference may have gone over his head… way, waaaaayyyy over…

 

[Zooey]

1. Webster’s Unabridged cites an etymology from ‘east’, with a note explaining that the origin from Eostre is a possibility. The OED gives Eostre as the origin, following Bede’s De tempore rationum.
2. The only sites on the web that claim definitively that Easter derives from Ishtar are the usual suspects: anti-Catholic fundies and some pagan/astrology sites.
3. You are apparently the only person on Earth never to have seen a Jack Chick tract. There is a thread devoted to this deeply troubled man. He promotes the Easter/Ishtar theory on his website:
www.chick.com.
Have you been saved?
4. I know you are having a lot of fun with this stuff, but Catholics have had to deal with Easter/Ishtar for some time, due to fundies with lousy educations in history and no linguistic training whatsoever. The theory (and I use the term very loosely) itself is ridiculous, as Easter is a purely English term, with other languages using some form of ‘Passover.’ One would have to believe that** Ishtar** leapfrogged across Europe to the British Isles. Every time some poorly educated person with an agenda puts forth this nonsense, some even more poorly educated person believes it. If you have issues with Catholicism, that’s fine; but using historical/linguistic refuse like Easter/Ishtar shows either astounding credulity or insincerity.

It’s similar to the translation of Chernobyl as Wormwood. While I have no doubt that some sort of meltdown is common to both, I would not promote the etymology.

This is a terrific explanation, & a great post…but-- I will never, ever be able to get that image Bestsmileys.com of my mind…

 

[severinus]

Zooey:

This is a terrific explanation, & a great post…but-- I will never, ever be able to get that image http://bestsmileys.com/leapfrog/1.gifout of my mind…

Ishtar would have had to get past the French first, and we know what the French do to frogs…

Probably some sort of pagan thing; maybe eating frogs’ legs to give you the ability to jump really far, because Ishtar had the legs of a frog. I read it somewhere in some book or saw it online somewhere, so I know it’s true.

I tracked down the origins of stories about worshiping eggs and rabbits, and the ritual consumption of chocolate. The source is the ancient Donatist author Cadburius.

 

[Wormwood]

LSK:

Sarcasm is not a good argument. All it shows is your lack of respect and ability to listen when you ask a question.

Agree

We do not use bunnies, eggs or chocolate to celebrate the liturgy of the Risen Lord.

But those symbols are still highly connected to the holiday right?

Keeping information about yourself secret and then using it to ‘refute’ an argument is another example of poor rhetorical skills

Or a case of someone making assumptions about me. Not saying something, is not the same as keeping it a seret.

Whether or not you are a pagan has nothing to do with your question.

Are you actually reading the posts you quote from, or do you just pick out random lines that catch your interest? The comment was made that I too must be a pagan then…and I was showing how that was a poor defense, as I never claimed I wasn’t a pagan…get it now?

If curiousity is truly the underlying motive for asking this question, you have been refered to some excellent resources.

If I just wanted a reading list I would have just “googled” the question.

You have also been given some excellent answers. Catholics are not pagans.

Agreed on both counts.

We do not worship chocolate, bunnies, eggs, maypoles, rocks, trees, birds, or statues

:banghead: So…you DO worship chocolate bunnies though right? I can’t believe someone is still posting this garbage…no one EVER said you worship rocks and trees, bunnies (chocolate or otherwise) or any of this other stuff you guys are making up…you want to talk about worshiping eggs and rabbits, start your own thread please!!!

Actually some pagans DO worship trees and eggs -

Could you name some groups please? The closest I have ever heard to that is a REVERENCE for nature…but they never actually gave thanks or prayed to trees. Even if you know of some…that is not the majority, and is not what is being implied, stated, questioned, or exclaimed here ok?

Re-read your posts - you are being extremely rude and sarcastic - if I remember correctly the root of the word sarcasm means to tear the flesh. If that is your intention, congratulations

Oh give me a break. No one here cares what I say, and besides read the tone and content of 90% of the responses…I say a little sarcasm is warranted.

Joseph Bilodeau
Had the OP read Screwtape, he would have recognized that this was the way Screwtape closed nearly all his letters to Wormwood in the book, and would not be imagining advances and inuendos where none exist.

I was being facetious. Also, I don’t care for C.S. Lewis.

but the OP apparently has not, (which piques my curiousity as to why, then, he chose this user name?),

It came to me in a dream…or I read it in revelations, I forget which.

severinus: 1. Webster’s Unabridged cites an etymology from ‘east’, with a note explaining that the origin from Eostre is a possibility.

Hmm, try looking for one online.

1. The only sites on the web that claim definitively that Easter derives from Ishtar are the usual suspects

Hmm I got it from a protestant minister down the street he even gave a reference number…if I can track it down I will post it ASAP.

1. You are apparently the only person on Earth never to have seen a Jack Chick tract.

Why would I have? Where do they appear that I would go?

If you have issues with Catholicism, that’s fine; but using historical/linguistic refuse like Easter/Ishtar shows either astounding credulity or insincerity.

It’s probably 50/50.

 

[aaronjmagnan]

Well, even if he (Wormwood) doesn’t take all this as seriously as we Catholics do, at least we are sharpening our skills…no?

Pray for the Advocate to give him a rub on the head.

God bless,
Aaron

 

[Wormwood]

LSK
You may find this difficult to believe, but it is very difficult to ‘hear’ the inflection of your voice - your title could have been funnier and not so mean spirited.

Agreed. But it is not hard to read, and I sated outright it was a joke…in fact you quoted it

You have been given some very good answers and then you attacked OUR tone.

Some of the answers were pretty good, but you should reread for the tone issue. Just by virtue of asking a question, I am not inviting people with very little to say, to say that very little in a condecending manner. If you get angry from something you read, it’s best not to read that anymore. Someone questioning your beliefs should not bother you. If it does, my posts/threads probably aren’t for you.

Catholic Christians have NEVER claimed to worship eggs.

I bet you voted for Bush huh? You are preaching to the proverbial choir. Please end this topic!!!

We didn’t. The other junk is used by the secular world and is not associated with Catholic teaching or liturgy.

Finally some sort of answers. Thank you for ending your tangent about the shortcomings of my social grace with something I can actually use!! (seriously thanks…not sarcastic)

Because you use a false dichotomy

Which in this instance is? Plus that was a shot at Jav for posting that once a thread in his defense of any argument I have that opposses his. Also just a joke if you are looking for some indicator to lighten up.

Again, if it was a joke it was a poor one and you need to take responsibility for your poor joking skills. We cannot read your tone of voice.

Ok, I will admit that I am not the world’s greatest jokesmith, if you will acknowledge that it was ridiculous for you guys to get so mad even if I hadn’t been joking. I don’t get angry when someone here questions my agnostic values. Also I should mention, that I do not believe 100% of what I say…sometimes I just take the opposing side in a debate as to learn more about the subject at hand, and answer whatever doubts or reservations I may have about the point being made. So it was funny to me (I’m sorry!) to see so many people get irate and make up even stranger allegations on their own.

You did not ‘just’ aks this - but you were given the information you requested. You simply ignored it and argued that our reasons were not good enough for you.

Can I help the way my mind works? If I have a doubt, it comes naturally. Your explainations didn’t cover every question perhaps.

Interesting references

Why?

I hope we are at least at a little better understanding of one another. I will try to curb the sarcasm. (starting now )

Zooey(Ahem! Cough, cough!!) I think that the C S Lewis reference may have gone over his head… way, waaaaayyyy over…

Or perhaps I just don’t care for C.S. Lewis as I stated earlier. I am sure I could reference more than 100 books that you have never read, does that mean they are over your head? No, it means you have not read them.

Probably some sort of pagan thing; maybe eating frogs’ legs to give you the ability to jump really far, because Ishtar had the legs of a frog. I read it somewhere in some book or saw it online somewhere, so I know it’s true.

I tracked down the origins of stories about worshiping eggs and rabbits, and the ritual consumption of chocolate. The source is the ancient Donatist author Cadburius.

Yes LSK you are right, I don’t see how I could have been sarcastic to well thought out and insightful posts like this…
(ok starting NOW! )