Why are Catholics so interested in the LDS faith?

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I became interested in the Mormon religion after I began to take an interest in coins, that led to a closer study of history. Also, when I was always interested in the oddest and more unique stories-especially uniquely American religions. Mormonism ranks top among indigenous American religions and I was fascinated with it. Plus, the little town I lived by in Nebraska was started by Mormons and was on the Mormon Trail.

I also became interested in it because of its far-fetched myths about the civilizations in the Americas. They were similar to other American myths such as the mounds (built by the Mound Builders in mostly the U.S. SE) were built by the lost tribes of Israel. I thought it was interesting to see what logical leaps some folks would make just to prove that the “red savages” were too stupid and uncivilized to have aspired to create great civilizations like what the Mound Builders had, or what the Aztecs, Mayans, Incas etc. built farther south. Of course, someone else had to do this and they had to have been Biblical-not the “red man”. The stories folks come up with to make America seem more like a promised land and Manifest Destiny a holy right!
 
Paul’s post was not personal–it wasn’t an attack on any single individual–and it certainly didn’t warrant a personal counterattack.
If you are referring to the LDS belief in the apostasy of the early Christian church, that is neither misrepresentation nor falsehood. That is the truth, and it is confirmed in the Bible.
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In the NT you’ll certainly find exhortations and predictions warning about false teachers and apostates (couldn’t those warnings apply to JS, btw?). But what verses are you referring to that predict Satan will prevail and upturn the Church? I mean, you’ll find some end time predictions of great battles between evil and good–assaults ON the church—but prophetic warnings that the early church will lose and all authority be lost??

Anyway, as I mentioned in another thread (or maybe this one, I’m losing track), if LDS believe that God could not or would not protect the early church from apostasy, why are LDS so sure that He can and will protect them from apostasy? How can you be so sure that the LDS didn’t fall into apostasy with the polygamy of JS, for instance, and that one of the splinter groups isn’t in fact the ‘true church’?
 
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amgid:
That is absolute falsehood. Mormons do not “specifically target” any particular religion “for conversion”. Mormons have been commanded of the Lord to preach the gospel to every creature, and that is what they do, without regard to what their current religion is.

Okay you target everyone. But the LDS church has always made a special point of emphasizing the “apsotasy” of the Catholic church.

That is a wicked lie. Mormons do not spread falsehood about the Catholic Church, or about any other religion. If you that is the case, why don’t you give us some examples. Don’t attribute your own corrupt and wicked practices to the Mormons.

Sure you do, from day one. Orson Pratt, Bruce Mconkie. You yourself right here. We see your accusation of Apsotasy as a definite falsehood.

Mormons do no such thing. That is an absolute lie. If you are referring to the LDS belief in the apostasy of the early Christian church, that is neither misrepresentation nor falsehood. That is the truth, and it is confirmed in the Bible. The Protestants also believe this. Apart from that, I don’t know what else you could be referring to.

No it is not confirmed in the Bible. Although many of BY and JS teachings are condemned there when it warns us if false prophets. See above on apsotasy.

This is falsehood of the blackest die. I very much doubt if you have ever been a “former LDS missionary,” otherwise you would have known better. Elders are never told that “Catholics are easy targets;” and in fact, every Mormon missionary who has had the relevant experience, knows that Catholics are not easy targets. It is actually more difficult to convert a Catholic than a Protestant. Traditionally and historically, Protestants have been easier to convert than Catholics.

Please… show us your statistical research to back this up. LDS missionaries learn the same sleazy sales techniques as the MLMs and use them to baptize people as fast they can (before they have a chance to learn what the LDS church teaches ) then it’s the members responsibility to “keep them active”.

Another falsehood. Mormon “activity” in a particular country does not depend on what religion they are in; but on how well they are received in that country. We naturally tend to put more effort in those countries which prove to be more receptive to our message, and less in those countries that aren’t. France, Italy, and Spain are all “Catholic” countries, but they are not targets of as much LDS effort because (like the rest of Europe) they are very secular, and they re not very receptive to the gospel message. On the other hand, Latin American countries have been more receptive to our message, so we put more effort into those countries. One in 25 Chileans are Mormons! Well, we didn’t go into Chile because they were Catholics; we went there to preach the gospel, like we did in any other country. Then we found that they were receptive to our message, so we put more effort into it, and it has borne good fruit. We also went into Spain, a great Catholic country. But we found that they are too secular to be interested in our gospel message. Recently they passed a law legalizing gay marriages and even adopting of children by gay couples! So that doesn’t come as a big surprise.

and what is the activity rate in these countries that have “borne good fruit”?

You are doing no such thing. All I see dripping from your poisoned pen is falsehood and lies of the blackest die against the Mormons.

No we have always stated fact right from your own LDS sources, you have practiced all manner of deceptions attempting to rationalize why those LDS sources aren’t authoratative. You keep telliong us how we (catholics) are all apostates and use only LDS sources to make that claim. So who has the poison pen?

I call that wishful thinking. Nobody reading your post will be so foolish as to fall for that kind of stuff.

I believe it. I know many others that believe it.

Don’t talk to me about love. You know nothing about love. All I see coming from you is malicious hatred and perverse wickedness. You are in the “gall of bitterness and the bonds of inequity”. Your heart is not right before God.

Why what a loving thing to say… Your exalted man and older brother must both be proud of your loving bashing all over this site. What pray tell was your purpose in coming here?

amgid
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Amgid! I’ve missed you! I see you’ve picked right up here where you left off on CARM. Good times. 👍
 
I’m a recent convert to the LDS Church(baptized 3 months ago) from Catholicism. A few of my Catholic friends are very interested in the Church, mostly b/c of the Book of Mormon and other scriptures. I also think that the reason why many Catholics are interested in learning about it is because we both claim to be the true Church of Jesus Christ. Obviously we both can’t be right. Either there was a restoration or there wasn’t. Either there was an apostasy or there wasn’t. Either the Book of Mormon is true, or it isn’t. etc. Therefore I think that Catholics try to research the Faith. That’s how I came to it.
 
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LDSGuy:
I’m a recent convert to the LDS Church(baptized 3 months ago) from Catholicism. A few of my Catholic friends are very interested in the Church, mostly b/c of the Book of Mormon and other scriptures. I also think that the reason why many Catholics are interested in learning about it is because we both claim to be the true Church of Jesus Christ. Obviously we both can’t be right. Either there was a restoration or there wasn’t. Either there was an apostasy or there wasn’t. Either the Book of Mormon is true, or it isn’t. etc. Therefore I think that Catholics try to research the Faith. That’s how I came to it.
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Well said. I respect your position.
 
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LDSGuy:
Obviously we both can’t be right. Either there was a restoration or there wasn’t. Either there was an apostasy or there wasn’t. Either the Book of Mormon is true, or it isn’t. etc. Therefore I think that Catholics try to research the Faith. That’s how I came to it.
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Some people make a dichotomy out of this that really isn’t there. There’s some famous quote about how it’s either Catholicism or Mormonism. That’s not really true, though. Yes, if there was no apostasy then Catholicism is the true Church. But if there was an apostasy, there’s little guarantee that Mormonism is really the restoration; anything that comes along and makes the claim could be the true Church.

Fortunately, our records of the Church that Jesus started show that it did just fine and was undeniably Catholic.
 
Brad Haas:
Some people make a dichotomy out of this that really isn’t there. There’s some famous quote about how it’s either Catholicism or Mormonism. That’s not really true, though. Yes, if there was no apostasy then Catholicism is the true Church. But if there was an apostasy, there’s little guarantee that Mormonism is really the restoration; anything that comes along and makes the claim could be the true Church.

Fortunately, our records of the Church that Jesus started show that it did just fine and was undeniably Catholic.
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Interesting point. The “restorationist” movement in the USA is usually attributed to Rev. Cambell. The cambellites later gave us the church of christ and the disciples of christ. (who also claim to be the beneficiaries of the “restored” Gospel) It is noteworthy that one cambellite preacher with a growing congregation was Sidney Rigdon. He Joined his church to Joseph Smith, was named a counselor in the first presidency and was extremely influential in the early doctrinal development of the LDS church.

Once people decided they could invent reasons to justify leaving the Catholic church then any myriad of doctrines were available. (and still are) Thus the “reformation” was the beginning of a vast splintering of Christianity that continues to this day. (where all too often it becomes a business with marketing strategies and corporate execs and all that entails)
 
LDS guy,

I understand if you feel uncomfortable sharing, but I’m wondering if you’d be willing to share what research led you to the conclusion that theBook of Mormon is true. I realize that your research is likely to be too lengthy to reveal in its entirety, but if you could possibly boil it down to some of the essential points that convinced you the Book of Mormon is true. Are you referring to archeological points, theological points, both etc?

Since there are many Catholics on this board, and you indicated you converted from Catholicism to LDS, you had to know this question was coming 🙂
 
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catsrus:
So, because Mormons and Protestants believe this, it’s true? No, it isn’t.
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You are quite right, just because we believe it, that doesn’t make it true. But that was not my point. The point was that he was insinuating that we “consistently spread vicious falsehoods about the Catholic faith and Christianity in general,” and that we are “deceptive” and we “misrepresent the Church’s history and doctrines to investigators”. That is a wicked lie and a perverse falsehood. We do no such thing. If he has any examples, any documentary evidence, any publications, or any websites on the Internet, why doesn’t he show us? I can show you thousands of publications and websites, all of them published by self-styled “Christians” of various description (not too many Catholic ones, I hasten to add) which are calculated to spread falsehoods and lies about the LDS Church. I would like him to show me one such publication or website by the LDS Church, or by any LDS affiliated organization, which is calculated to attack, malign, or spread falsehood about the Catholic or any other church, just one. You will not find any.

The reason why I mentioned the LDS belief in the doctrine of the Apostasy is because that is the only issue that I can think of which he might be able to portray falsely as an “attack” on Catholicism. Well, that is a fundamental principle of our theology. That is what we believe. It is not meant as a deliberate attack on anybody.

amgid
 
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edmondhall:
LDS guy,

I understand if you feel uncomfortable sharing, but I’m wondering if you’d be willing to share what research led you to the conclusion that theBook of Mormon is true. I realize that your research is likely to be too lengthy to reveal in its entirety, but if you could possibly boil it down to some of the essential points that convinced you the Book of Mormon is true. Are you referring to archeological points, theological points, both etc?

Since there are many Catholics on this board, and you indicated you converted from Catholicism to LDS, you had to know this question was coming 🙂
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haha of course I knew it was coming 🙂

Well I’ve been interested in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for a few years now. I requested a free copy of the Book of Mormon 3 years ago, read some of it, and forgot about it. Then, around a year or so ago, I decided to read it, mostly stemming from the news coverage of polygamous groups, etc., which reminded me of the Church. Much of what I researched seemed silly, unChristian, etc., and certainly not related to what the Catholic Church taught.

I read a number of books and articles, looking at both sides. I was particularly interested in various doctrines such as proxy baptisms for the dead, sealings, degrees of heaven, temples, restriction of the priesthood to blacks, nature of the Trinity, etc. Basically all of the controversial stuff that is discussed here:) The more I read, the more I found that I agreed with a lot of it, and that a lot of it made sense from various stances. deification or theosis has been believed in since the beginning of Christianity, and the Orthodox Church also has a similar belief. The accusations of stealing from Masonry for the endowment were interesting, however I also realized that many other Catholic practices find similarities with various pagan practices. I didn’t think that the similarities justified the belief that the endowment was false. Many of the “problems” associated with the Book of Mormon turned out to be false as well, or not fully developed.

Anyway, I researched A LOT on the beliefs of the Church, until finally a few months ago I was baptized. Many of my prayers to God were answered, I read a lot on the FARMS and FAIR websites, and this website:

jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/index.html

really helped in my decision as well.

That’s the general idea, so I won’t go into too much detail as it’s offtopic.
 
**The common thread among all these incidents is the fact that the participants were believers in fundamentalist Mormon doctrines, including the practice of polygamy. While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) officially renounced the practice of polygamy in 1890, citing the manifesto of Wilford Woodruff, the actual practice of polygamy and adherence to other fundamentalist doctrines has continued to create problems for leaders of the main body of the Saints, and has led to the creation of several splinter groups which have left the larger group for reasons of doctrinal difference. It is important to state at the outset that most fundamentalist Mormons are decent, law abiding, and God fearing people who work hard and only wish to be left alone. However, given the incidents listed above, a study of this culture and its practices is warranted as well. **
**

The most notorious example of Mormon treatment of women is, of course, the practice of polygamy. In early 1843, Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, announced to the press that, despite rumors to the contrary, the Latter-Day Saints did not practice polygamy and believed it was an abomination (Wallace 53). He spoke the truth as far as the vast majority of Mormons was concerned, for polygamy is expressly forbidden in the Book of Mormon. However, Joseph himself had been married to at least eleven women besides his legal wife by 1843. (Wallace 52). The first of these, in 1835, was a seventeen year old orphan who had been taken in by his wife, Emma Smith. Joseph apparently married all of these.**

Sara
 
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amgid:
You are quite right, just because we believe it, that doesn’t make it true. But that was not my point. The point was that he was insinuating that we “consistently spread vicious falsehoods about the Catholic faith and Christianity in general,”
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you mean like this?
  1. “I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian churches), for they were all wrong…their creeds were an abomination in [God’s] sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19).
  2. “Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).
  3. “Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast” (Journal of Discourses, John Taylor [3rd Mormon President], 13:225).
  4. “The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon” (Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, Orson Pratt, n. 6, 84).
  5. “All the priests who adhere to the sectarian [Christian] religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, ed. Vol. 1, n. 4, 60).
  6. [Under the heading, “Church of the Devil,” Apostle Bruce R. McConkie lists:] “The Roman Catholic Church specifically—singled out, set apart, described, and designated as being ‘most abominable above all other churches’ (I Ne. 13:5)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, 129).
  7. “Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Morm. 8; Moro. 8)” (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, Bruce R. McConkie, 177).
or this?
LDS Church Publication “The Seer,” January, 1854. No. 1., Page 204-206

DOCTRINE QUESTIONS
Q. Who founded the Roman Catholic Church?
A. The Devil, through the medium of Apostates, who subverted the whole order of God by denying immediate revelation, and substituting in the place thereof, tradition and ancient revelations as a sufficient rule of faith and practice.
Q. Was not the Protestant Reformation a great benefit to the world?
A. Yes: it served to weaken the power of the mother church, and produced a great division in Satan’s kingdom–the mother being opposed to her harlot daughters, and the daughters against their most abominable mother: and in this family war, the harlot daughters became also sorely displeased with each other.
 
(continued)
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amgid:
and that we are “deceptive” and we “misrepresent the Church’s history and doctrines to investigators”. That is a wicked lie and a perverse falsehood. We do no such thing. If he has any examples, any documentary evidence, any publications, or any websites on the Internet, why doesn’t he show us?
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We’ve already posted MANY examples of this. Eternal progression ring a bell?
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amgid:
I can show you thousands of publications and websites, all of them published by self-styled “Christians” of various description (not too many Catholic ones, I hasten to add) which are calculated to spread falsehoods and lies about the LDS Church. I would like him to show me one such publication or website by the LDS Church, or by any LDS affiliated organization, which is calculated to attack, malign, or spread falsehood about the Catholic or any other church, just one. You will not find any.
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and yet we did…(see above) the current missionary discussions quickly get to the point when covering the “Great Apostasy” (excerpts from from the PoGP account of JS first vision)

*My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.

I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors• were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw• near to me with their lips, but their ehearts• are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments• of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower• thereof.”
*
wow, a rather stinging attack.
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amgid:
The reason why I mentioned the LDS belief in the doctrine of the Apostasy is because that is the only issue that I can think of which he might be able to portray falsely as an “attack” on Catholicism. Well, that is a fundamental principle of our theology. That is what we believe. It is not meant as a deliberate attack on anybody.

amgid
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Yet it is in fact just that. You yourself have made a number of deliberate attacks on many here. This may the “best”
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amgid:
Don’t talk to me about love. You know nothing about love. All I see coming from you is malicious hatred and perverse wickedness. You are in the “gall of bitterness and the bonds of inequity”. Your heart is not right before God.
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interesting ability you have that allows you to look into the hearts of men and determine if they are right before God.
 
BJ

**SIZE=3]From its inception, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter–day Saints (LDS or Mormonism) has positioned itself as something distinct and different from professing Christianity. In LDS Scripture, Joseph Smith recounts his “First Vision” when in 1820, God the Father and Jesus Christ warning him that there were no true Christian churches on the earth. Smith, Mormonism’s founder

Jesus Christ began to restore His Church in its fulness to the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1820. It has grown to become a worldwide Church with over 12 million members. It has the same teachings and basic organization as the Church established by Jesus in New Testament times.**

THE LDS IS THE MORMON CHURCH, THEY FOLLOW THE BOOK OF MORMON.
 
**
KATZPUR**

[BMormons and the “Mormon Church” - these are strange terms to many people, especially those who don’t even know that these terms are nicknames refering to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members**

Sara
 
**

BJ Said:“It sounds as if you have a pretty big chip on your shoulder for the LDS Church. I’m sorry you feel you must use lies to get your point accross. BJ”

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE LDS CHURCH, BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW AT LEAST WHAT YOU PRACTICE AND PREACH.
Mormons and the “Mormon Church” - these are strange terms to many people, especially those who don’t even know that these terms are nicknames refering to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members
.**
 
**BTW BJ, you are the one on here who is lying, to yourself.!

All one has to do is look up your Sect and find all the answers they need. It’s hard to believe you were trying to claim LDS has nothing to do with Mormonism. Who are you kidding besides yourself.

Your post’s are arrogant, sarcastic, and rude. You are a novice when it comes to Theology and you are out of your league on this discussion board. **

Sara
 
sara888 said:
**BTW BJ, you are the one on here who is lying, to yourself.!

All one has to do is look up your Sect and find all the answers they need. It’s hard to believe you were trying to claim LDS has nothing to do with Mormonism. Who are you kidding besides yourself.

Your post’s are arrogant, sarcastic, and rude. You are a novice when it comes to Theology and you are out of your league on this discussion board. **

Sara
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Okay now you are confusing ME. Of course LDS are “Mormons”. There are many other churches besides the LDS that ALSO claim to be Mormons. They have split from the LDS church much like the original protestants split from the Catholic Church. They practice many different variations of “Mormonism” many of which have been denounced as heresy by the LDS church. Please try to distinguish between the LDS church and the “other” Mormon churches so that our discussions stay accurate.
 
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