Why are Catholics so intollerant?

[Soutane]

Hmmmmm, is this about tolerance?

Romans 13: "9* The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10* Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. "

Or this: 1 Cor. 13: "4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5* it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7* Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. "

Good point but nowhere in scripture does it say that one should allow oneself to be kicked repeatedly in the face either.Christ did NOT turn the other cheek when He saw His Father’s House defiled.

 

[Pier]

Good point but nowhere in scripture does it say that one should allow oneself to be kicked repeatedly in the face either.Christ did NOT turn the other cheek when He saw His Father’s House defiled.

This is true…

In a recent homily, we were told that if we forgive someone an offense, it doesn’t mean they are to treat us like a doormat - & too, we can forgive someone an offense, but if there is a penalty or punishment due, they must pay it.

 

[Teflon93]

Catholics, unlike non-Catholics, believe one must account for ALL of Scripture.

I’ll see your St Paul and raise you Jesus Christ:

Matthew 21:

“23”: And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

“24”: And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.

“25”: The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

“26”: But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

“27”: And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

“28”: But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

“29”: He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

“30”: And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

“31”: Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them,** Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. **

Matthew 18:

“15”: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

“16”: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

“17”: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Matthew 8:

“21”: And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

“22”: But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Mark 11:

“15”: And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

“16”: And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.

“17”: And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Mark 14:

“17”: And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

“18”: And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

“19”: And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I?

“20”: And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

“21”: The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him:** but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born. **

And so on.

But clearly some have forgotten that the Lamb was raised a carpenter’s son, yet the only thing Scripture tells us he fashioned was the scourge he used to drive the moneychangers from the Temple.

Read Matthew 25 and tell me if Christ believes toleration to be the supreme virtue, when he places obedience to God as the first of his commandments.

 

[mlchance]

Some of us are very, very wary of ANY organisation or person who considers that they have the monopoly on truth especially when they consider that their task is to bring everyone to that truth.

I agree, which is one of the reasons I became Catholic. The Church doesn’t have a monopoly on the truth. What she has is the fullness of the truth. Why settle for less than the full truth?

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[anon5216]

There’s also another dynamic.

At least for me, if I interact with someone (of any faith: Catholic or completely non-Christian) and they come across as living and experiencing their faith integrally, it doesn’t matter how purely, strictly and vigorously they express their faith. I won’t feel offended no matter how contrary their ideas may seem to mine.

On the other hand, there are many people (of all faiths, including but certainly not limited to Catholicism), whose lives do not come across as integrally living and experiencing their faith. Rather, they come across as clinging to mental conceptions and rote sets of words without living those words.

These come across as intolerant. As my thesaurus describes it: bigoted, narrow-minded, small-minded, parochial, provincial, illiberal; prejudiced, biased, partial, partisan, discriminatory.

The words can be identical. Someone can quote a saint, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc… It does not matter. The experience of the person comes from their consciousness, not the text of their verbal or written expression.

 

[Teflon93]

The shortest response to the OP:

Because Hell is forever.

 

[Soutane]

The shortest response to the OP:

Because Hell is forever.

Amen.

 

[Soutane]

There’s also another dynamic.

At least for me, if I interact with someone (of any faith: Catholic or completely non-Christian) and they come across as living and experiencing their faith integrally, it doesn’t matter how purely, strictly and vigorously they express their faith. I won’t feel offended no matter how contrary their ideas may seem to mine.

On the other hand, there are many people (of all faiths, including but certainly not limited to Catholicism), whose lives do not come across as integrally living and experiencing their faith. Rather, they come across as clinging to mental conceptions and rote sets of words without living those words.

These come across as intolerant. As my thesaurus describes it: bigoted, narrow-minded, small-minded, parochial, provincial, illiberal; prejudiced, biased, partial, partisan, discriminatory.

The words can be identical. Someone can quote a saint, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, etc… It does not matter. The experience of the person comes from their consciousness, not the text of their verbal or written expression.

Do you have the widom of Solomon that YOU can judge the state of another person’s soul or another’s heart or intent?Do you realise how arrogant you sound?

 

[Soutane]

“These come across as intolerant. As my thesaurus describes it: bigoted, narrow-minded, small-minded, parochial, provincial, illiberal; prejudiced, biased, partial, partisan, discriminatory.”

If someone,whether Catholic,Anabaptist,Jehovah’s witness,presbyterian or Lutheran does NOT believe that their Faith contains the fullness of Truth and does not defend it as being the True Faith,then they are guilty of the most ghastly moral relativism and NOT the pejoratives listed above.

 

[anon5216]

Originally Posted by anon5216
There’s also another dynamic.

Solomon is certainly described as wise - I’m not so sure his wisdom was such that he could read another person’s soul like Padre Pio could.

No, I’m not claiming the ability of Padre Pio. To be explicit, I definitely do not have the capacity to read souls.

If you actually read my post thoroughly (it’s not long), you’d notice I speak in terms of how a person comes across and how I react - I do not pronounce definitive judgment. Where is the arrogance in that?

Now, back to those folks who do not integrally live and experience their faith, yet express themselves with vehement assertions of their religion’s supremacy and their understanding of their religion’s theology - now this type of person is truly arrogant.

 

[anon5216]

“These come across as intolerant. As my thesaurus describes it: bigoted, narrow-minded, small-minded, parochial, provincial, illiberal; prejudiced, biased, partial, partisan, discriminatory.”

If someone,whether Catholic,Anabaptist,Jehovah’s witness,presbyterian or Lutheran does NOT believe that their Faith contains the fullness of Truth and does not defend it as being the True Faith,then they are guilty of the most ghastly moral relativism and NOT the pejoratives listed above.

Superficially “believing” things about one’s faith by no means assures you are living and experiencing that faith.

If a person does not live and experience their faith, and yet still persists in arguing the superiority of that so-called ‘faith’, I’d agree they were “guilty of the most ghastly moral relativism” as you put it.

 

[Teflon93]

A good argument for why Protestants need to come around on the Eucharist and papal authority—they cannot live the Christian faith fully until so doing.

 

[Soutane]

Superficially “believing” things about one’s faith by no means assures you are living and experiencing that faith.

If a person does not live and experience their faith, and yet still persists in arguing the superiority of that so-called ‘faith’, I’d agree they were “guilty of the most ghastly moral relativism” as you put it.

I’m generally willing to give the person the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.How about you?

 

[anon5216]

I’m generally willing to give the person the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.How about you?

Certainly.

 

[PJM]

Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter Join Date: June 13, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 9,110

Re: Why are Catholics so intollerant?

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Originally Posted by Soutane
Good point but nowhere in scripture does it say that one should allow oneself to be kicked repeatedly in the face either.Christ did NOT turn the other cheek when He saw His Father’s House defiled.

This is true…

In a recent homily, we were told that if we forgive someone an offense, it doesn’t mean they are to treat us like a doormat - & too, we can forgive someone an offense, but if there is a penalty or punishment due, they must pay it.

Hmmmmm…:ehh:

Faith Hope and Love and the Gtreatest of these is …

Romans Chapter 12: " 18 If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all. 19* Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it * to the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20* No, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. "

**Mt. Chapter 5:“38 *"You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;”

1 Cor. Chapter 13:

"4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5* it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.** 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. **

8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

So my dear friends in Christ,

Whose is right?

Thanks for fighting FOCA! I’m with you on this one

 

[Ruben]

These days’ words like “tolerance” and “intolerance” are used to convey incomplete truths. The manner in which they are often used allow them to serve as thought saving devices. As if we are supposed to accept the meaning of words without having to think.

Tolerance never applies to the truth, but always applies to the person. Intolerance never applies to the person, but always applies to the truth. Tolerance always applies to the erring, but never to the error.

 

[Soutane]

These days’ words like “tolerance” and “intolerance” are used to convey incomplete truths. The manner in which they are often used allow them to serve as thought saving devices. As if we are supposed to accept the meaning of words without having to think.

Tolerance never applies to the truth, but always applies to the person. Intolerance never applies to the person, but always applies to the truth. Tolerance always applies to the erring, but never to the error.

I like it.

 

[IrishJoe]

Maybe this has been your experience. I have found it to be that while Catholics tend to mind their own business, sometimes Protestants are more in-your-face.

of course. However I have more contact with ‘Catholics’ I’ve found that quakers tend to be the quietist. Some protestants are quite ‘more noise less volume’.

Christ did NOT turn the other cheek when He saw His Father’s House defiled.

turning the cheek is not about being passive. It was actually a social faux pas to hit someone with your left hand, ergo by offering your right cheek if he hit you with his left had he looked like a dope and disgraced himself.

 

[Pier]

Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter Join Date: June 13, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 9,110

Re: Why are Catholics so intollerant?

---

This is true…

Hmmmmm…:ehh:

Faith Hope and Love and the Gtreatest of these is …

Romans Chapter 12: " 18 If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all. 19* Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it * to the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20* No, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. "

**Mt. Chapter 5:“38 *"You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also;”

1 Cor. Chapter 13:

"4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5* it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.** 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. **

8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

So my dear friends in Christ,

Whose is right?

Thanks for fighting FOCA! I’m with you on this one

(ahem!)

The homily said nothing about vengence - it was whether there was a penalty or punishment due the person, such as if they had broken the law & committed a crime, the penalty/punishment would have to be paid. However, the offended party can still forgive the person’s soul the sinful offense i.e. by praying for the offender (an act of charity, last I heard).

 

[PJM]

I wonder

Is the RC Intollerant? And by proxy, we Catholics,

or… are those we try to expose the truth to, are they the ones
who are intollerant?