Why are Evangelicals like this?

[twf]

Well, I’m sure you can find any weird person from any religion and say they represent that religion, but I think you’re focusing on evangelicals on the fringe if you think all evangelical Protestants are seriously concerned about fake news about John Podesta and Hillary Clinton practicing satanic cooking rituals. For the record, we’re not.

When it comes to Harry Potter, that is something many evangelicals take seriously. We do believe in a real, personal devil. We do believe that even Christians can fall into serious spiritual bondage by giving place to evil things in our lives, including witchcraft.

Why would Christians who take their faith seriously want to immerse their children in a book series that glorifies that which is condemned as sin in the Bible? That is the outlook of many evangelicals. You don’t have to agree with it, and even many evangelicals see Harry Potter as harmless fantasy. I’ve never read the books, but I have watched the films. I don’t think they are satanic, but I could understand if Christian parents preferred something for their children that was less focused on holding up practitioners of witchcraft, sorcery, and magic (activities all condemned by divine law) as heroes and role models.

I doubt many evangelicals actually believed Obama was THE antichrist. However, many Democratic platform planks could be described as antichrist (i.e. support for abortion, etc.)

I think you need to talk to more evangelicals. We’re not all the same.

In regards to fantasy / Harry Potter, one could make the same argument against Narnia or Lord of the Rings…and I suppose some do (I remember one Baptist friend who condemned all of the above). The magic in Harry Potter is fantastical. Rowling has acknowledged the strong, obvious Christian allegory in the novels (especially in the 7th book) and has flatly denied that there is any Wiccan influence. The wizards of this fantasy world are a unique race of people who have an innate magical power. They don’t invoke spirits or demons. One of the charges I often hear is that it inspires kids to try magic themselves. This tells me that such people haven’t read the books. It is a MAJOR plot point that regular kids CAN’T do magic…they don’t have the ability. Harry and friends are special. Harry is a Christ-figure. He dies and rises again to save his friends and is thus victorious over the Dark Lord. While no real Occultic spells are quoted (contrary to some claims), the Bible is quoted…more than once. Like I said…Rowling was baptized Presbyterian. And it shows.

 

[fiftytwo]

Johnathon cahn wrote the book the harbinger. And the smetha. And teaches on the real evidence. Of Satan and his influence on american culture. Occurring now. He describes the throne of Satan on utube

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Ever! Hi there

You guys are few and far between in my place in space

 

[ltwin]

In regards to fantasy / Harry Potter, one could make the same argument against Narnia or Lord of the Rings…and I suppose some do (I remember one Baptist friend who condemned all of the above). The magic in Harry Potter is fantastical. Rowling has acknowledged the strong, obvious Christian allegory in the novels (especially in the 7th book) and has flatly denied that there is any Wiccan influence. The wizards of this fantasy world are a unique race of people who have an innate magical power. They don’t invoke spirits or demons. One of the charges I often hear is that it inspires kids to try magic themselves. This tells me that such people haven’t read the books. It is a MAJOR plot point that regular kids CAN’T do magic…they don’t have the ability. Harry and friends are special. Harry is a Christ-figure. He dies and rises again to save his friends and is thus victorious over the Dark Lord. While no real Occultic spells are quoted (contrary to some claims), the Bible is quoted…more than once. Like I said…Rowling was baptized Presbyterian. And it shows.

I’m a fan of fantasy, and like I said I don’t think Harry Potter is satanic. However, it’s best to leave that determination to individual conscience, and if a parent has serious concerns, then they shouldn’t let their kids read it.

I think it’s a mistake for anyone to expend much energy trying to prove whether a children’s fantasy book series is or is not satanic. If you think it is, don’t read it. If you think it isn’t then read it. I don’t think we should blow it out of proportion.

Years ago, a lot of people went way overboard in attacking Harry Potter, as if kids reading it in school would be solely responsible for producing an entire generation steeped in the occult. All it really did was make certain Christians sound like nuts, and certainly hasn’t affected the popularity of the series.

I think there are more important things happening that should be called satanic, for example our nation’s legalized abortion policy or the continuation of human trafficking around the world or the rising tide of religious persecution, etc.

 

[exnihilo]

As others have pointed out, plenty of Catholics can quickly attribute something to Satan or call something Satanic. Jesus says:

You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

So Jesus spoke like what you are calling out. He even referred to the devil as a father of lies, thus the source of evil. Personally I don’t think talking about Satan is the problem. I think the problem is more in not talking about him. I think many people believe talking about Satan is for the simple which is why they don’t. They are embarrassed.

 

[Tomyris]

I think it was C.S.Lewis who pointed out two equal and opposite mistakes regarding the devil. One is to deny he exists. The other is to pretend he is everywhere.

There is a tendency to avoid responsibility by blaming our sins on the devil as the one who made us do something. Personally, I think sometimes all he has to do is sit back and laugh at the stupid things we do. I can screw up my life mightily without demonic interference. But sometimes things happen that can have no other explanation than that there was something supernaturally evil involved. But generally that is not the first explanation. I first go with my responsibility, then someone else’s, then the laws of nature, and last the devil got in there.

As was pointed out, evangelicals are not the only ones looking under every bush for a demon. Most evangelicals aren’t like that. Most Catholics and most Orthodox aren’t either. But anyone who has read the Brothers Karamazov will remember Father Ferapont, who cast the demons out of every room in a monastery before he would enter it, because the place was, according to him, full of them. And he was no evangelical.

 

[Bonnie]

There is a tendency to avoid responsibility by blaming our sins on the devil as the one who made us do something. Personally, I think sometimes all he has to do is sit back and laugh at the stupid things we do. I can screw up my life mightily without demonic interference.

The great excuse that started with “pass-the-buck” Adam & Eve - “the devil made me do it!”

I agree that we can sin quite well on our own. In Good Omens the demon character Crowley makes just that point. In one example (if I’m remembering it correctly - it’s been a while since I last read it) all he had to do to get lots of people to sin was mess up the phone system a little.

 

[jericho777]

Well as you know Satan is real and is constantly trying to steal souls. The west has forgotten this. Just talk to someone who has come from an area where demonic spiritual manifestations are a daily occurrence. Satan comes as an angel of light portraying himself as benign. Harry Potter and Yoga are straight from his play book.

 

[Tim_D]

Just talk to someone who has come from an area where demonic spiritual manifestations are a daily occurrence.

And where would that be?

 

[AClaire11]

And where would that be?

Probably the developing world.

I’ve had to do yoga as part of training for sports. It’s basically really boring stretching while you listen to soothing music and breathe slowly. There’s nothing remotely demonic about it. It was a gym option at my Catholic university.

 

[Markie_Boy]

Former protestant here.

St. Paul says:

So Evangelicals are totally justified in being so guarded. In fact, I would argue that we should be more like them in that regard. Meaning, keep that proper understanding of the unseen world and the battles taken place.

Yeah - what he said!!! We ignore this way too much - and the enemy likes it that way!

I think society tells us to not pay attention to this, like it is superstitious - the same secular world that does not pay attention to God they way they should. At least they are consistent - consistently wrong that is!

 

[TK421]

#OP
The Holy Father has been very liberal and unapologetic in talking about Satan and his desire to destroy us, although he hasn’t used this in reference to Harry Potter or other trivialities. He has used it when referring to pride, or throw-away culture (abortion, materialism, etc). Some Evangelicals might be aiming in the slightly wrong direction, but Satan’s active presence in the world is very strongly established.

 

[jimkhong]

Hmm I never heard that about the Vatican excorcist although I think there is a way
to do Christian style yoga that is done in the name of Jesus instead of in the name
of some demon or in the name of oneself.

There is no Vatican exorcist. Exorcism is a pastoral role and exorcists are often provided that faculty by the bishop at the diocesan level.

The Diocese of Rome as with many other dioceses in the world do appoint exorcists. The Pope normally does not get involved in this directly as his pastoral role as bishop of Rome is delegated to his Cardinal-vicar of Rome.

Most exorcists all over the world go about their jobs discreetly. The one exception to my memory was Gabriele Amarth, who died last year. He was rather public in his role in tens of thousands of exorcisms he claimed to have conducted. He was quite outspoken in his many views including his personal opinions on Harry Potter and yoga. But these remain his personal views.

So, I think we may need to correct the impression given by the statement that condemnation of Harry Potter and yoga have papal sympathies. Aa far as I am aware, there is no formal Vatican position on either of these issues.

 

[jimkhong]

I think it was C.S.Lewis who pointed out two equal and opposite mistakes regarding the devil. One is to deny he exists. The other is to pretend he is everywhere.

There is a tendency to avoid responsibility by blaming our sins on the devil as the one who made us do something. Personally, I think sometimes all he has to do is sit back and laugh at the stupid things we do. I can screw up my life mightily without demonic interference. But sometimes things happen that can have no other explanation than that there was something supernaturally evil involved. But generally that is not the first explanation. I first go with my responsibility, then someone else’s, then the laws of nature, and last the devil got in there.

As was pointed out, evangelicals are not the only ones looking under every bush for a demon. Most evangelicals aren’t like that. Most Catholics and most Orthodox aren’t either. But anyone who has read the Brothers Karamazov will remember Father Ferapont, who cast the demons out of every room in a monastery before he would enter it, because the place was, according to him, full of them. And he was no evangelical.

I so much agree with you on this.

 

[mattp0625]

First I want to say that I was born and raised Catholic and I am still practicing. Also I wanted to say I have nothing against Evangelical Christians (one of my best friends is Evangelical bless his heart) and I am going to apologize ahead of time if I hurt anyone’s feelings in this post. However it seems that Evangelicals (especially those on the right side of the political spectrum) are very quick to label certain things as ‘satanic’. From the Harry Potter books, to John Podesta’s “spirit cooking”, Evangelicals seem very quick to slap the “satanic” label on almost anything. Also there seems to be an obsession with the antichrist. First it was Obama, then Hillary Clinton etc. It almost seems like fearmongering. And it is all very strange to me because we never talk about this kind of stuff in the Catholic Church. Any thoughts?

To reference some of the other responses - I have read Fr Gabriel Amorth’s and other Catholic exorcists’ books, as well as non-Catholic authors such as Benny Hinn, Derek Prince and others. I consume a fair amount of Catholic media which sometimes covers this topic.

I have also spoken to Catholic priests, as well as nondenominational and evangelical Christians on this topic.

I understand your point. There are some non-Catholics who take it a bit too far, though the differences may not be quite as extreme as you think.

Some priests err toward the side of labeling something “superstition” instead of demonic. Other priests will indicate that reiki and certain types of yoga, for example, are demonic (including Fr Amorth). There are also Catholic saints who write about the influence of the devil - this is nothing new.

My understanding is that that in the 1960’s and 1970’s, Catholics less frequently referred to the devil as a person, though perhaps not completely omitted, and tended to focus on abstract evil. I also have heard that the church is generally returning to the more traditional language of referring to the devil as a person. In the 1970’s, there was the famous exorcism case in Germany which (loosely) was the basis of a few movies.

However, folks like Mr. Prince - who I respect even if I disagree with this theology - label many additional things as having demonic influence such as the common cold. To me, this goes too far.

Some evangelicals will use different terminology as well - for example - they sometimes indicate some sin or something that is bad influence “is the devil”. For matters of temptation, that is, the ordinary form of demonic activity- this is slightly different terminology compared to Catholics.

I also agree with your premise that there seems to be too much non-Catholic focus on looking for signs of the end times. A few years ago, there were all those books on the blood moon. It was like a fad. Then, there was all the clamor when the pope addressed the US Congress. Unfortunately, I believe this is an extension of Luther’s theology which indicates the pope is the antiChrist. He also believed he was living in end times during the 16th century.

Certain non-Catholics also tend to focus on New World Order theories in order to look for the antiChrist. I believe this also goes too far.

Catholics take Jesus’s advice on the matter- no one knows the time, so prepare yourself. Hence, no Catholic blood moon books or NWO theories.

 

[Peter_J]

First I want to say that I was born and raised Catholic and I am still practicing. Also I wanted to say I have nothing against Evangelical Christians (one of my best friends is Evangelical bless his heart) and I am going to apologize ahead of time if I hurt anyone’s feelings in this post. However it seems that Evangelicals (especially those on the right side of the political spectrum) are very quick to label certain things as ‘satanic’. From the Harry Potter books, to John Podesta’s “spirit cooking”, Evangelicals seem very quick to slap the “satanic” label on almost anything. Also there seems to be an obsession with the antichrist. First it was Obama, then Hillary Clinton etc. It almost seems like fearmongering. And it is all very strange to me because we never talk about this kind of stuff in the Catholic Church. Any thoughts?

Thank you for posting this. I’ve said before that I would consider switching to participating on an Evangelical forum rather than here, if I thought that things would be better there … but I really don’t think they would be. (And, quite apart from this thread, no one has made much headway in terms of convincing me that they would be.)

 

[Peter_J]

Well, I’m sure you can find any weird person from any religion and say they represent that religion, but I think you’re focusing on evangelicals on the fringe if you think all evangelical Protestants are seriously concerned about fake news about John Podesta and Hillary Clinton practicing satanic cooking rituals.

Exactly. In the same way, just because an anonymous Catholic gets on the internet and says this or that, it does not mean that we all believe this or that. (Consider, how many times have you heard a Catholic say “Protestants are led by the devil” in real life?)

 

[InOmnemTerram]

And it is all very strange to me because we never talk about this kind of stuff in the Catholic Church

Evangelicals usually act like that because they often take their faith very seriously, and are extremely open to a supernatural view on absolutely everything. Catholics can be that way too, but we’re mostly an extremely lukewarm bunch.

 

[FollowChrist34]

First I want to say that I was born and raised Catholic and I am still practicing. Also I wanted to say I have nothing against Evangelical Christians (one of my best friends is Evangelical bless his heart) and I am going to apologize ahead of time if I hurt anyone’s feelings in this post. However it seems that Evangelicals (especially those on the right side of the political spectrum) are very quick to label certain things as ‘satanic’. From the Harry Potter books, to John Podesta’s “spirit cooking”, Evangelicals seem very quick to slap the “satanic” label on almost anything. Also there seems to be an obsession with the antichrist. First it was Obama, then Hillary Clinton etc. It almost seems like fearmongering. And it is all very strange to me because we never talk about this kind of stuff in the Catholic Church. Any thoughts?

Well, I think Catholics soft pedal the devil quite a bit. The Evangelicals overplay him. As a Catholic I am embarrassed to call something satanic. Sounds too extreme, offensive. The problem is I do believe it is - I just don’t say it or even really act like it is.

Take the saying Get behind me Satan - what is Jesus saying to Peter. Human centered thoughts, values are of this world, which is the devil’s. Does this not accord with Catholic doctrine. It better. I do agree though Evangelicals get it wrong, are often almost superstitious about the ‘devil.’ (hint: he can be a Catholic as easily as a mass murderer, or maybe John Lennon, but you can find Catholics who will say that too) The Evangelicals are maybe soft on distinctions, lack an informed grasp of Gospel. Yet at least they clearly grasp that this world is not God’s. We don’t build the kingdom of God here. Besides, I am afraid you can make a pretty good case that Catholics don’t really have an informed grasp of Gospel or teaching that much anymore either - look at the polls. I guess I don’t know how much of a bragging point it is that Catholics don’t think Harry Potter is satanic. In the larger scheme of things.

 

[fhansen]

First I want to say that I was born and raised Catholic and I am still practicing. Also I wanted to say I have nothing against Evangelical Christians (one of my best friends is Evangelical bless his heart) and I am going to apologize ahead of time if I hurt anyone’s feelings in this post. However it seems that Evangelicals (especially those on the right side of the political spectrum) are very quick to label certain things as ‘satanic’. From the Harry Potter books, to John Podesta’s “spirit cooking”, Evangelicals seem very quick to slap the “satanic” label on almost anything. Also there seems to be an obsession with the antichrist. First it was Obama, then Hillary Clinton etc. It almost seems like fearmongering. And it is all very strange to me because we never talk about this kind of stuff in the Catholic Church. Any thoughts?

When I was evangelical I thought I could spot demons under most rocks-and inside a lot of churches too. It’s fear-based, us vs them eclusivism mainly, with a trace of truth behind it.