Why are gays adopting a bad thing?

[EasterJoy]

Lying is lying even when done through omission. Unless withholding the truth is considered being truthful.

If the Good Lord had wanted us to all know each other’s opinions, welcome or not, we wouldn’t have our teeth placed so conveniently near to our tongues.

It is not lying to withhold a truth that from someone who does not have the right to have it. It is only prudence to withhold one’s advice from someone who has not solicited it and is not likely to welcome it.

 

[maryjk]

Lying is lying even when done through omission. Unless withholding the truth is considered being truthful.

You must not have many friends.

And I don’t say that to pick on you or to attack you.

I say it because if you live your life telling people the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even when they don’t ask for it, I can’t imagine anyone wants to be around you.

I mean, do you really walk up to people and tell them that they are fat? Or ugly? Or do you just do it to people that you know?

 

[heidi_storage]

You are presumably talking about the foster care system here and I am personally familiar with that system. I can’t claim to know the system in all 50 states intimately, and I am certainly no expert however I have some experience.

Not only have I taken care of children in my own home but have family members that have as well and I can tell you this, that I only wish-hope-pray that all we needed were 23,493 couples. It’s more complicated than that, I wish it were not but it just is.

Adoption from foster care is ideal but tricky because birth parents have rights that are very difficult to terminate. I know of foster parents that were on the verge of adopting high risk children only to be turned away waiting for another court date, more than once. Foster care is a gamble, anyone who gets in the foster care system will tell you that. You take it one day at a time, one week at a time. You have to have a big heart to do it but you also have to put walls up too in a way because the children leave. Some states have stipulations about keeping siblings together, also about Native American adoptions, it’s all very tricky again I don’t know everything but I do know that it’s not just about more couples “stepping up” because lots of people ARE stepping up it’s the system that is so clogged up with bureaucracy that makes it so difficult (in my opinion) for the adoptions to take place and gay adoptions are not the answer. Just my two cents.

Excellent post.

 

[1990Domer]

You are presumably talking about the foster care system here and I am personally familiar with that system. I can’t claim to know the system in all 50 states intimately, and I am certainly no expert however I have some experience.

Not only have I taken care of children in my own home but have family members that have as well and I can tell you this, that I only wish-hope-pray that all we needed were 23,493 couples. It’s more complicated than that, I wish it were not but it just is.

Adoption from foster care is ideal but tricky because birth parents have rights that are very difficult to terminate. I know of foster parents that were on the verge of adopting high risk children only to be turned away waiting for another court date, more than once. Foster care is a gamble, anyone who gets in the foster care system will tell you that. You take it one day at a time, one week at a time. You have to have a big heart to do it but you also have to put walls up too in a way because the children leave. Some states have stipulations about keeping siblings together, also about Native American adoptions, it’s all very tricky again I don’t know everything but I do know that it’s not just about more couples “stepping up” because lots of people ARE stepping up it’s the system that is so clogged up with bureaucracy that makes it so difficult (in my opinion) for the adoptions to take place and gay adoptions are not the answer. Just my two cents.

I truly agree with Monicad. Until you have walked a mile in a person’s shoes, you cannot possibly understand the ins and outs of the multiple type of adoption options. We are an infertile couple, so we deeply looked into adoption. To be honest, the paperwork given us by the social worker–all mental evaluation tests–were terribly invasive. I felt we needed to detail our entire family history from birth to present, including how we were parented. Both my DH and I had imperfect parents. I had to disclose a possible undiagnosed mental illness of my mother. Guess what…they threw more paperwork and psychological tests on us…on our dime. We gave up. Total beaurocratic nonsense like every other government agency I have had to deal with (meaning the IRS or vehicle services).

I may behoove you to do some research before you spout out. Monicad, bless you. You are so sweet and kind compared to me. You will see Heaven.

 

[RACJ]

I truly agree with Monicad. Until you have walked a mile in a person’s shoes, you cannot possibly understand the ins and outs of the multiple type of adoption options. We are an infertile couple, so we deeply looked into adoption. To be honest, the paperwork given us by the social worker–all mental evaluation tests–were terribly invasive. I felt we needed to detail our entire family history from birth to present, including how we were parented. Both my DH and I had imperfect parents. I had to disclose a possible undiagnosed mental illness of my mother. Guess what…they threw more paperwork and psychological tests on us…on our dime. We gave up. Total beaurocratic nonsense like every other government agency I have had to deal with (meaning the IRS or vehicle services).

I may behoove you to do some research before you spout out. Monicad, bless you. You are so sweet and kind compared to me. You will see Heaven.

I wonder if homosexual partners get the same scrutiny. That kind of questioning might invite lawsuits against adoption agencies for phantom “discrimination”.
I am very sorry that you had to go through that nightmare for nothing…:hug1:

 

[1990Domer]

I wonder if homosexual partners get the same scrutiny. That kind of questioning might invite lawsuits against adoption agencies for phantom “discrimination”.
I am very sorry that you had to go through that nightmare for nothing…:hug1:

God bless you and thank you. We went to many domestic and foreign adoption talks. It was amazing how the domestic agencies did not want to put children of color with white couples. We lived in the South at the time, so I am not sure if that applied. I try not to think if SSA couples would naturally have it easier.

I am not proud of the route we went to have our beloved son. We have confessed our sin numerous times and now speak against it. But, I made a promise to God that if I had a child, I would pray for his/her vocation in silence to give back to the Church what I so desperately wanted.

My DS is 13 and has been discerning a vocation with a Polish religious order that has a shrine in Americia. It is American Czestochowa. We feel it is a great fit for him.

 

[1990Domer]

Thank you for sharing about your journey. It is my understanding that the racial criteria are easing up a bit in many areas. I certainly hope so.

I wanted to comment on what I believe was “On The Hills” suggestion that a main problem was that we didn’t have enough loving heterosexual couples stepping up to the plate which I don’t think is necessarily true. In my own personal experience (and that of people I know which is about five or six families) domestic foster care and adoptions can be frustrating and emotionally exhausting. The problem in my opinion is NOT the lack of loving couples but the system itself is broken therefore the poor children suffer. Good foster care families get choked out of the system while the ones that know how to “play” the system stay in. I have seen it, I have honestly seen it with my own eyes.

Gay marriage/adoption is not the answer here they are not going to swoop in and fix this mess I can say that with certainty.

Actually, I also missed those points when talking of my experience. Depending on state, family addoption law could be an easier walk in the park or a logigistical nightmare. Kids in foster care are fought by their relatives or birth parents to stay there with the hopes of a reunion. And I too have heard countless stories from lawyer friends that “experienced” foster care parents know how to maximimize the child subsidy versus those coming in naive. This is just from a cross section of former classmates, so it worries me to think if my sample size was larger.

As my DH was talking about this thread, a definite straw man argument was being used–2 unpopular examples with none in the middle.

 

[phil19034]

I worked with 3 men, all in the same office, who adopted. One adopted twice before I met him, the other two while I worked with them

It was a nightmare for both of them and took several years and a lot of money. One wound up adopting a little girl from China and the other finally got a child after having one pulled away from them. They almost went the China route, until they finally received a child.

Sometimes I honestly think pro-choice buerocrats have a conspiracy to make it complicated just to encourage abortion and IVF.

 

[1990Domer]

I worked with 3 men, all in the same office, who adopted. One adopted twice before I met him, the other two while I worked with them

It was a nightmare for both of them and took several years and a lot of money. One wound up adopting a little girl from China and the other finally got a child after having one pulled away from them. They almost went the China route, until they finally received a child.

Sometimes I honestly think pro-choice buerocrats have a conspiracy to make it complicated just to encourage abortion and IVF.

I would hope it is not to encourage fertility treatments. I’m not sure how abortion plays into it.

However, I find that the whole court system resembles spaghetti. Nothing makes sense and it is a tangled mess.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

God bless you, but with all Christian charity the way this is phrased is untrue and a TRAP.

It’s a false set-up that one has to make a hard choice between gay parents and a cardboard box. There are thousands of loving heterosexual couples willing to adopt but most people already know that.

You are free to be pro-gay-adoption, that is your right. I would suggest that you make your argument with true facts though, not false ones like this, just a suggestion. God bless.

I agree completely, but let us remember, EVEN IF there was not a single heterosexual couple willing to adopt, it wouldn’t matter.

In this case, something’s inherent value is not determined by other options. We are talking about stark black and white. Homosexual adoption is fundamentally wrong in every case, regardless of circumstances.

For the OP to bring up hypotheticals shows the inability to justify its true value or worth in and of itself. Besides, since the Church is clear, why even ask for opinions? I can offer mine, but it isn’t worth anything frankly, because the Church has spoken.

 

[estesbob]

I agree completely, but let us remember, EVEN IF there was not a single heterosexual couple willing to adopt, it wouldn’t matter.

In this case, omething’s inherent value is not determined by other options. We are talking about stark black and white. Homosexual adoption is fundamentally wrong in every case, regardless of circumstances.

For the OP to bring up hypotheticals shows the inability to justify its true value or worth in and of itself. Besides, since the Church is clear, why even ask for opinions? I can offer mine, but it isn’t worth anything frankly, because the Church has spoken.

 

[Rau]

Lying is lying even when done through omission. Unless withholding the truth is considered being truthful.

Keeping thoughts to oneself is not lying. There is no generally applicable imperative to share one’s thoughts, whether or not they represent “truth”.

 

[holyrood]

so makng bunch of kids homless is better than giving them to a gay couple?

Smh that makes no sense

It makes no sense to shake your head and claim it makes no sense. Requiring a mother and father would not ‘make a bunch of kids homeless.’ There are plenty of people waiting to adopt. There are long waiting lists of people waiting to adopt.

This is nothing but false rhetoric to claim that it’s a choice between two gay men or no parents at all.

 

[bitterhope]

It makes no sense to shake your head and claim it makes no sense. Requiring a mother and father would not ‘make a bunch of kids homeless.’ There are plenty of people waiting to adopt. There are long waiting lists of people waiting to adopt.

This is nothing but false rhetoric to claim that it’s a choice between two gay men or no parents at all.

It really isn’t false. The waiting couples are not waiting to adopt the kids available, they are waiting for the kids they want instead. Thousands of children are bypassed in favor of other kids that are deemed a “better fit” for their family.

The whole system is messed up. Couples that would love to adopt any and all kids are not able to pass home inspections for any number of stupid reasons. The criteria for adoption needs to be changed, but until it is gay couples that pass the criteria may very well be a home to one of the thousands that age out of the system every year or become so messed up in temporary placements that they end up institutionalized for the rest of their lives. I personally wish no child went without the perfect ideal home, but since we don’t live in a perfect ideal world, making the best of a situation is all we can do.

My foster siblings all say they would have given anything to have a family and a home that they could call their own. They do not care if it was gay, straight, or single parents. They wanted to be wanted. Many stay in contact with us because my parents were the closest they ever got to that.

Work to change the way adoptive parents are screened so more traditional parents are able to go through the process, but in the mean time kids are waiting. It is not right to deny their existence and focus on the parents on waiting lists for infants (or more accurately kids under 3), or waiting in fund raising efforts to adopt overseas.

 

[holyrood]

It really isn’t false. The waiting couples are not waiting to adopt the kids available, they are waiting for the kids they want instead. Thousands of children are bypassed in favor of other kids that are deemed a “better fit” for their family.
.

Yes, the claim that ‘not allowing gays to adopt would leave children homeless’ absolutely IS false.

It’s been covered upthread, and you yourself acknowledge, that there are numerous problems with the SYSTEM itself. This is not about a lack of heterosexual married couples wanting to adopt.

The US Census found that less than 1% of households are gay couples. There are many reasons I would guess that a lower ratio of gay couples are seeking to adopt children. So, I"m sorry, but no, there is no way that 1% or fewer are the ONLY thing standing between children and homelessness.

We might consider, too, that those who claim to care so much about children were willing to shut down Catholic adoption agencies–in other words, give children to two gay men, or we’ll shut you down and hurt ALL the children you could have been helping. Never mind that other agencies were willing to place children with gay couples. Obviously, there’s more concern out there about the gay agenda than about the children themselves.

 

[bitterhope]

Yes, the claim that ‘not allowing gays to adopt would leave children homeless’ absolutely IS false.

It’s been covered upthread, and you yourself acknowledge, that there are numerous problems with the SYSTEM itself. This is not about a lack of heterosexual married couples wanting to adopt.

The US Census found that less than 1% of households are gay couples. There are many reasons I would guess that a lower ratio of gay couples are seeking to adopt children. So, I"m sorry, but no, there is no way that 1% or fewer are the ONLY thing standing between children and homelessness.

We might consider, too, that those who claim to care so much about children were willing to shut down Catholic adoption agencies–in other words, give children to two gay men, or we’ll shut you down and hurt ALL the children you could have been helping. Never mind that other agencies were willing to place children with gay couples. Obviously, there’s more concern out there about the gay agenda than about the children themselves.

I didn’t say it is the only thing, and yes the system needs to be fixed. The whole system is set up for the failure of children and society as a whole. I also agree traditional family is ideal. But it’s not happening anytime soon that we will live in a perfect world. Nobody is stepping up to fix the system. Most don’t even realize that we do institutionalize children every day in this country. It’s not thought about and the kids end up forgotten. Fix the system and then we have room for striving toward perfect solutions. Until then, a family and home that is permanent and stable is far better than living out of garbage bags in foster care, temporary shelters, institutions, mental hospitals and juvenile detention. It’s a sick trap and more people care about the conditions of animal shelters than they do state children’s homes. If these kids are lucky they find long term foster families. Many don’t even get that much. Fix the system. Stop people from viewing children as a burden and a financial mistake and trouble makers and the like. Help people see kids as the treasure they are, deserving of a mom and a dad that love them just as God created them. It’s not just the system that is broken and no one wants to fix it because it requires fixing the way the world views life. We all know it can be changed. Look at the way things have changed in just a few years in terms of “pet rescues” and shelters. Aren’t our children worth more than that? But instead of actually working to fix things, people just want to argue over who “deserves” to be a parent and continue to forget that there are real kids out there waiting to finally be shown the love of God. Catholic Charities and their adoption agencies aren’t the perfect example of finders of good homes out there for these kids. Nearly all their adoptions are placing newborns-toddlers into homes–and there are waiting lists for babies. Beyond saying that I will reserve my opinion of Catholic Charities.

 

[Rau]

Given that the State now endorses that it is perfectly natural and reasonable for same sex couples to marry, it is inconceivable that the State will conclude they are less suitable to parent adopted or acquired children. In the same way, it is inconceivable that the State will stand in the way of including same sex parent families in story books provided to children in schools. The State has decided this is all fine.

If any distinction whatsoever were to be made between marriage and SSM, the latter needed to be a separate institution. But that was explicitly rejected by SSM advocates, for that would be to concede that SSM really isn’t marriage.

 

[bitterhope]

Given that the State now endorses that it is perfectly natural and reasonable for same sex couples to marry, it is inconceivable that the State will conclude they are less suitable to parent adopted or acquired children. In the same way, it is inconceivable that the State will stand in the way of including same sex parent families in story books provided to children in schools. The State has decided this is all fine.

If any distinction whatsoever were to be made between marriage and SSM, the latter needed to be a separate institution. But that was explicitly rejected by SSM advocates, for that would be to concede that SSM really isn’t marriage.

Yep. Gay marriage isn’t real marriage. I agree. It is corrupting society and people stand back and allow it to occur. IVF and other fertility treatments are as much if not more to blame for the adoption/foster care system being so screwed up. People think they have a right to have their own biological child and then if all else fails, maybe they might consider adopting. Surrogate mothers and sperm donation paved the way for gay parents and gay marriage to begin with. It’s a societal problem and a major failure on society’s part. Still these kids need homes. They need love. They need family, even imperfect family is better than none. How can we allow society to become so evil? And still we find ways to punish the most vulnerable for our failures? It really makes no sense. I wish each and every person that wanted to prevent gay parents and single parents from adopting would sign up to adopt or at least to foster kids themselves. That would prevent there being a need for more families for these kids. Even people that don’t qualify to adopt or foster long term can be approved as emergency placement homes. It won’t fix things overnight but it is working towards a real solution.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Yep. Gay marriage isn’t real marriage. I agree. It is corrupting society and people stand back and allow it to occur. IVF and other fertility treatments are as much if not more to blame for the adoption/foster care system being so screwed up. People think they have a right to have their own biological child and then if all else fails, maybe they might consider adopting. Surrogate mothers and sperm donation paved the way for gay parents and gay marriage to begin with. It’s a societal problem and a major failure on society’s part. Still these kids need homes. They need love. They need family, even imperfect family is better than none. How can we allow society to become so evil? And still we find ways to punish the most vulnerable for our failures? It really makes no sense. I wish each and every person that wanted to prevent gay parents and single parents from adopting would sign up to adopt or at least to foster kids themselves. That would prevent there being a need for more families for these kids. Even people that don’t qualify to adopt or foster long term can be approved as emergency placement homes. It won’t fix things overnight but it is working towards a real solution.

Having had the experience you’ve had with the foster system, would you mind answering a couple of questions or offering suggestions?

DH and I have briefly toyed with the idea of adopting or fostering at some point. However, we keep running into two problems in particular (and this is leaving out the crazy requirements that some states have for fostering/adoptive homes):

First, when kids inevitably went back to their parents or guardians or back into the system, how did the rest of the kids, including the biological ones, handle it? What we’re envisioning is getting a foster kid into our home for possibly years, with all the resultant bonding on both sides. Then the kid has to go “home,” and in some states that means that foster parents and siblings are no longer allowed contact, period. One day, your kid has a sibling who they may have known all their life, and the next day they’re gone. How does this affect the kids who stayed? (I can imagine all too well how it affects the kids who leave.)

Second, there’s the sex abuse issue. From what I hear, a fair number of kids in foster care/foster-to-adopt circumstances have been sexually abused, and a lot of kids who have will act this stuff out on other children. No fault of their own, of course–it’s the horrible situations they were in to begin with that caused it–but still, is it fair to put your own kids at risk? I’m not even talking about kids who are that much older; I’ve heard from teachers about kids as young as 4-5 doing this stuff to younger kids. I don’t think I could ever forgive myself for putting a toddler at risk for that, but at the same time, there’s no denying that those kids need homes, too–they’re kids in need of safety, security, and protection just like any other kid! What’s would you suggest as a solution?

 

[bitterhope]

Having had the experience you’ve had with the foster system, would you mind answering a couple of questions or offering suggestions?

DH and I have briefly toyed with the idea of adopting or fostering at some point. However, we keep running into two problems in particular (and this is leaving out the crazy requirements that some states have for fostering/adoptive homes):

First, when kids inevitably went back to their parents or guardians or back into the system, how did the rest of the kids, including the biological ones, handle it? What we’re envisioning is getting a foster kid into our home for possibly years, with all the resultant bonding on both sides. Then the kid has to go “home,” and in some states that means that foster parents and siblings are no longer allowed contact, period. One day, your kid has a sibling who they may have known all their life, and the next day they’re gone. How does this affect the kids who stayed? (I can imagine all too well how it affects the kids who leave.)

Second, there’s the sex abuse issue. From what I hear, a fair number of kids in foster care/foster-to-adopt circumstances have been sexually abused, and a lot of kids who have will act this stuff out on other children. No fault of their own, of course–it’s the horrible situations they were in to begin with that caused it–but still, is it fair to put your own kids at risk? I’m not even talking about kids who are that much older; I’ve heard from teachers about kids as young as 4-5 doing this stuff to younger kids. I don’t think I could ever forgive myself for putting a toddler at risk for that, but at the same time, there’s no denying that those kids need homes, too–they’re kids in need of safety, security, and protection just like any other kid! What’s would you suggest as a solution?

Those are good questions!

It was always hard saying good bye regardless of the circumstance. Some were good–returning to a home that has improved, living with bio relatives. Some went to other foster homes to reunite with siblings, some went to residential centers, two went to juvenile hall, and others aged out of the system. None went from us to adoptive parents. It’s important to realize that the bonding you have is different than with bio siblings and the parenting is different as well. That’s a big reason these kids NEED permanent families. We did grieve, especially with kids that were going into bad situations, but we were always reminded by mom and dad that God called us to foster these kids as part of our prolife mission. Many of the kids kept in contact. Some invited us to weddings. Most came to my dad’s funeral. Some we hadn’t heard from since they left our family showed up to introduce us to their families even. But yes, it is hard on everyone and that is why so many opt not to foster. It’s not pretty but it is life

Honestly, the only foster sibling I can recall that was sexually abused was a boy we had from age 2 until he was 6. When he first came to is I was 12 and he was a mess. He did act out both physically and sexually even being so young. We had to keep him on a strict schedule to help him learn how to work out his frustrations constructively instead of destructively. Lots of therapy and APPROPRIATE affection coupled with discipline instead of punishments helped keep him safe as well as preventing him from hurting others. By the time he was 4 he was a very different boy. Unfortunately he ended up returning to his parents and we’ve never heard from him again. I still worry and pray for him. He was a very brave kid and so strong to deal with such unthinkable things. Most if the kids we had came from physical abuse or neglect. Most had alcoholic and/or drug addicted parents. A couple came after parents died. All had emotional issues to various degrees. All required tons of therapy. I grew up knowing how blessed I was to be born to the family I came from and also knowing how ugly real life can be.

As an adult I had an emergency placement of four siblings. Their mom lost custody and our husbands were deployed. I kept the kids til dad got home. It’s the only time we had foster kids in our home and I don’t regret it one bit. My kids miss them and ask about them. As a family I pray for them. If the opportunity ever comes again I will take it, but military families usually can’t foster. Some of the reasons make sense to me but others are pretty stupid. Emergency situations are handled differently because it helps the social workers place a child with a known person instead of searching for a home or shelter that has room. They can visit the home themselves and approve on the spot for temporary cases. If you have any other questions you can PM me. And thank you for discerning the possibility of fostering/adopting. May God bless you abundantly!